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Thread: Jimmy can catch

  1. #41
    sdvikefan is offline Hall of Famer
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    Jimmy can catch

    "muchluv4moss" wrote:



    I have to disagree with you here. If we didn't need a TE who can go downfield, then we wouldn't have signed wiggins to do just that. I know we aren't changing our offense, so the plays where the TE goes downfield must have been in there last year. Fact is, Tice said after he signed wiggins, that we needed a TE to fill the role that chamberlain did in his pro bowl year. Tice said he is very excited to have a TE again, that can go down the seams and take pressure off of the outside receivers. If wiggins can be this downfield TE, which I am not sure about, but if he can, he will make it much easier for daunte to hit his WR's downfield. Moe and jimmy will not be getting dumpoff pass after dumpoff pass. Lets face it, probably about 90% of moe and jimmy's catches were 5 yard dumpoff passes. There were probably the 4th or 5th option on the plays. If wiggins is the downfield Te that Tice thinks he will be, watch and see how much easier it is for daunte to get the ball to the WR's. Also wacth and see moe and jimmy catch half as many passes.

    Again, I am not dissing jimmy or underestimating what he means to our team. Sounds to me like people underestimate what heap and gonzo mean to their teams. They are good blockers, but no one thinks they are because they catch a lot of passes. It is their good blocking that has experts saying they are the best TE's in the game. Yes, if we had gonzo instead of jimmy, we would definately be loosing pass protection and a great run blocker. We would however be getting a good pass blocker and a good run blocker, as well as a awesome downfield receiver that would get a lot of the attention off of moss and our other receivers. We would be better off with gonzo in my opinion. I am happy we have jimmy, but think people are crazy to put him ahead of heap and gonzo. I won't argue if you put him against any other TE's in the league, because you would have a good arguement there, but gonzo and heap are too complete of a TE to think jimmy is in their league. I do hope wiggins does what Tice expects him to, because you guys will then see what a downfield TE does to open up the field for our ofense. We did have the #1 offense last year, so that isn't badly needed, but would be nice.
    I don't know man, there's a big difference between how we will be using Wiggins and how those other teams use their TEs. Gonzalez is the leading receiver on his team, along with Holmes. Heap is the leading Raven receiver. Kellen Winslow will become the leading Brown receiver. They don't use their TE to draw pressure off their WRs, their TE is their primary downfield threat. Wiggins will obviously not be our main downfield threat. I just don't think there's anything Wiggins will be used for that Jimmy could not. True most of Jimmy's passes came from short 5 yard dumps, but I did see a few passes to him that were at least 10 yards and he caught them just fine and even broke some tackles. And there is still his TD against the Chiefs...in that score he did exactly what you say WIggins will be useful for, which is present another receiving option that the defense will get burned on if they ignore. And they did. So sorry I just don't see the need for another TE.
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  2. #42
    hawaiianvike21 is offline Team Alumni
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    Jimmy can catch

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  3. #43
    muchluv4smoot's Avatar
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    Jimmy can catch

    "sdvikefan" wrote:
    [quote]"muchluv4moss" wrote:





    I don't know man, there's a big difference between how we will be using Wiggins and how those other teams use their TEs. Gonzalez is the leading receiver on his team, along with Holmes. Heap is the leading Raven receiver. Kellen Winslow will become the leading Brown receiver. They don't use their TE to draw pressure off their WRs, their TE is their primary downfield threat. Wiggins will obviously not be our main downfield threat. I just don't think there's anything Wiggins will be used for that Jimmy could not. True most of Jimmy's passes came from short 5 yard dumps, but I did see a few passes to him that were at least 10 yards and he caught them just fine and even broke some tackles. And there is still his TD against the Chiefs...in that score he did exactly what you say WIggins will be useful for, which is present another receiving option that the defense will get burned on if they ignore. And they did. So sorry I just don't see the need for another TE.



    Wiggins will be running the same patterns as heap and gonzo, thus he will be used in the same way. The difference will be, that he won't be the #1 or #2 option for us. Look at the WR's that gonzo and heap play with. Their is a big reason why they are the #1 receiver in their offesnes. Also look at how much easier it is for the crappy KC receivers to get open. They never have a hard time getting open, because of gonzo. He absolutely draws defenders away from their WR's. We didn't even have a TE try and go down the seams last year. No matter who it is, he will at least draw a little attention. If he is good like gonzo and heap, then he will make it so much easier to hit those WR's on the outside. Just watch what winslow jr does for cleveland. I bet one of their receivers has a momster year this year, and it won't just be coincedence.

    Put heap and gonzo in our offense, with Moss, and they would still have awesome years. Moss would probably have his biggest year as a pro as well.

    I say we didn't use jimmy in the role that we are gonna use wiggins this year, because he wasn't able to be that kind of TE, which would explain why we brought wiggins in. We aren't changing our offense, just adding another weapon, that we didn't have last year, because jimmy isn't that kind of receiving TE. These are my opinons, and by what the coaches have done and said this offseason, I think it sounds like theirs as well. I could be wrong though, I don't claim to be always right. Just going by the facts.

  4. #44
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    Jimmy can catch

    I we had a star receiving TE on our team, we wouldn't have enough ball to go around.

    Pacmanxxx, I get out a kick out of you man. You say: "hey look you guys went 9-7, 6-10 and 5-11 the past 3 years what makes you think this year will be different?"

    Ugh because our record has improved every year since going 5-11, you have been getting worse.
    Jeez draw yourself a fricken graph look at the trend.

    Not only that but you claim we are ignorant because we fail to recongnize the amazing players you have added including grady Jackson (who is good, not great, he was released by NO for a reason), Jue, Couch etc. oh my what a star studded ensemble! Like I said you claim us to be ignorant but don't even give us the benifit of the doubt that we have improved when we went out and got the best corner in free agency, and the best DE in the draft, to mention only a couple.

    Also I love how every Packer fan on here save Los seems to be 100% positive that McKenzie will be back. Let me ask you this, after everything he has said why would you want him back on your team? He is obviously sick of GB.

    I hate to say it but if Moss started spouting off about the vikes and our coaches, I wouldn't want him on our team. The same goes for any player, just seems kind of sad how you guys grasp to that glimmer of hope that you might actually be able to stop someone on defense this year.


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  5. #45
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    Jimmy can catch

    I have to agree...I'm not optimistic about McKenzie. McKenzie (I think I mentioned this months ago) has always reminded me of Ricky WIlliams, and its funny with today's weird turn with RW that I bring it back to McKenzie.

    I think McKenzie will sit until his fines start equating his salary. I honestly think Sherman will find he has an adequate (not stellar by any means) secondary without him and won't budge even when MM comes groveling back. Then the players union will get involved and there will be some sort of settlement. Then, because he wasn't in training camp, he'll pull a groin in his first game back, and that'll be that. McKenzie is a head case.

    I mentioned this on PC.com, but I would never expect Moss to sppout off on his own team. All of his problems tend to be off the field.

    I did find this quote from Robert Smith's new book:

    • On former Vikings teammate Randy Moss:
    "I had my run-ins with Randy. I was seconds away from pouncing on him in Tampa Bay in the locker room, and there was a time up at training camp in Mankato Minn.) where I had some problems with him. But for the most part I just think he was a guy who was just overwhelmed by the amount of attention that he had.

    "I think he wants to be a good person, but he struggles with the idea that he needs to keep it real in a sense. I think what Bill Cosby said is true: If you don't act like a thug and you're black in America, then it's hard to get street respect, especially if you're athlete or an entertainer. I think a bit of that plays into Randy's attitude. I think he wants to be a better person and he's growing into his superstar role, but it was just all too quick for anybody to handle, probably."
    Have you ever seen a race of turtles, and they all go the wrong way instead of towards the finish line?

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  6. #46
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    Jimmy can catch

    I have to agree with muchluv about one thing. We need that TE that is a pass threat. With Wiggens you only have to throw to him once or twice a game and he serves his purpose. With just the threat of a TE splitting the seam teams would not be able to play cover 2 like they do against us and that would leave Moss or Robinson songle covered every time.
    But I still don't think Heap or Gonzo would not work for an offense like the Vikings. They both led thier teams in receptions last year and that does not say much for their WR's. With Moss and Robinson at WR that would not leave many balls for them and that would be taking away from thier strong suit. That is why Jimmy is better for us, the TEAM benifits more from his strong suit which is blocking, just like the Chiefs and Ravens as a team bennifit from thier TE's catching the ball. Yes they are the 2 best in the league, but the vikings do not have enough balls to go around to siut them and the running game would suffer a little with them blocking rather than Jimmy, even though they may be good blockers, that is not thier strength and it is Jimmy's.
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  7. #47
    muchluv4smoot's Avatar
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    Jimmy can catch

    "ndakvikefan" wrote:
    I have to agree with muchluv about one thing. We need that TE that is a pass threat. With Wiggens you only have to throw to him once or twice a game and he serves his purpose. With just the threat of a TE splitting the seam teams would not be able to play cover 2 like they do against us and that would leave Moss or Robinson songle covered every time.
    But I still don't think Heap or Gonzo would not work for an offense like the Vikings. They both led thier teams in receptions last year and that does not say much for their WR's. With Moss and Robinson at WR that would not leave many balls for them and that would be taking away from thier strong suit. That is why Jimmy is better for us, the TEAM benifits more from his strong suit which is blocking, just like the Chiefs and Ravens as a team bennifit from thier TE's catching the ball. Yes they are the 2 best in the league, but the vikings do not have enough balls to go around to siut them and the running game would suffer a little with them blocking rather than Jimmy, even though they may be good blockers, that is not thier strength and it is Jimmy's.

    OK, that was my point by saying what I said, that heap and gonzo are better all around TE's than jimmy. People were trying to put jimmy ahead of heap, and as much as I luv jimmy, no way is he better than heap. I don't think you will find anyone other than some vikes fans, who will say that.

    I do agree that jimmy does play a different role in our offense. We do need him at what he does as well. I just hope we can also get a TE to go down the middle. I hope wiggins can do it some this year. If he can, he will open up our offense a lot, and that makes us very scary on offense(not like we weren't already).

  8. #48
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    Jimmy can catch

    JJK is not a top 3, possibly not a top 10, but he could be. The vikings use their TEs differently than most other teams though. They are chip blockers that run 5 to 10 yard routes. I haven't seen a viking TE run downfield like Heap and Gonzalez do for years!! If they do, it's on a play where daunte is scrambling!! I like JK the way he is a punishing blocker that will catch the ball and rumble for a little bit and get some key first down conversions!!

    I get the most pissed off looks from people with my VKG 4 LFE Wisconsin license plate, and I LOVE IT!!

  9. #49
    Hamboner is offline Waterboy
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    Jimmy can catch

    Jimmy has great hands, Coach Tice has said that many of times. The problem is that he historically stayed in pass protection instead of running a route. Plus once he catches the ball he's a load to bring down. Linehan will use him much more this year in the passing game.

  10. #50
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    Jimmy can catch

    Packman, was that the Vikings, or the Packers you were talking about? Oh yeah, it was the vikings, we do have a reciever, sorry.

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