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  1. #21
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Jaworski comment regarding T. Jackson on ESPN

    On KFAN this morning they were talking about how Jackson makes good throws in practice, but seems to have problems in games.
    If so, this could be a confidence/nervousness thing.
    Either way, they need to figure out what it is fairly quickly if they want to turn this season around.
    Coach Childress and TJack need a winning season, or both of their jobs could be in jeopardy IMHO.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #22
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Jaworski comment regarding T. Jackson on ESPN

    Here is a great link that I think helps/falls in line with the discussion.

    http://football.calsci.com/Positions4.html

    As for TJ.
    I think it is a bit tough to analyze him the way you would normally do a rookie QB, if for no other reason than the fact that he came from a program that isn't a prime developer of a QB that could step right in and run a WCO.


    My assesment of TJ this year has been and will be based on 3 phases.

    Pre-snap.
    It seems that at times he is able to make the read, call the audible and hit the reciever in his hands but the reciever drops the ball.
    I am not gonna ping on the WR's here as that is all part of the game IMHO, but it is an indicator that he has been able to demonstrate the abilility to make the initial reads at the line pre-snap.

    On the flip side to that, he sometimes does make the wrong read because the defense does a good job of disguising thier intentions.
    IMHO that is an indicator of a couple of things.....
    a) Poor gameplanning by the coaching staff if the D does something that they have done in the past or b) I blame no one, if the D does something that they haven't shown before.


    Post-snap.
    This one has been hard for me as I just don't get a real good feel for what he is doing during his progression through the reads.
    As all of you know, I really think a young QB needs a bit more time than normal to get through this process and our OL just isn't helping out there.

    Anyway, what I am looking for, is simple basic stuff, does he keep the ball up and ready to throw, does he survey the field, does he get the ball out on time (short routes as well as long routes) and can he feel the pressure.

    Again, I am having trouble gauging this if for no other reason than our OL play however.....

    a.
    He keeps the ball up and doesn't put it in a place (his hips/ches) were a DE coming off the edge can slap at it.
    b.
    I think he does a pretty good job of surveying the field if he has made a correct pre-snap read of what the D is going to do.
    If he has made a bad pre-snap read, the ole "Deer in the Headlights" comment comes into play.
    c.
    As far as getting the ball out on time. I think he is not doing a good job of this.
    He could do better, however, I don't think it is as bad as some of you think.
    Most of you are basing your comments on his holding the ball to long (assumption on my part) based on watching a guy like Manning (the good one), Favre, and possibly Brady.
    Those guys, if you watch them play can get the ball out rather quickly, however, they all have the luxury of having huge pockets to work with and extra time to throw the ball while waiting for WR's to get open if they get jammed at the line or have to come back to the QB.
    Anyway, I am sure some of you will still disagree with me on that one.
    d. Accuracey.
    I think he can be accurate if he has time to set his feet and execute/make the proper mechanics behind a throw.
    Again, that all comes back to an assumption that he has time to step up in the pocket and drive off his back foot or the time to square his shoulders when rolling out/scrambleing.
    Still not sure on that/this one but I think he can and will be an accurate passer if given the correct protection.

    The third phase I look for, again, has been a hard one and that is during the next game.
    I just don't think I have had enough time to really get a feel for is he learning from past mistakes.
    The only true indicator I have seen is nothing more than an assumption he learned something from the Lions game and that is to not force the ball.

    IMHO, this has almost gone from one bad thing (forcing the ball) to another bad thing and that is hesitancy to take a chance to put the ball in a tight spot.
    That in turn has lead to alot of discussion on wether or not he is holding the ball to long.

    Long story short, I am still not convinced that he isn't going to be a good QB in this league or in this scheme for that matter.
    I would still like to see him get the reps (at least for a few more games) this season to see what we need to do next year.

    I sure hope the front office guys make the right decision.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Jaworski comment regarding T. Jackson on ESPN

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Here is a great link that I think helps/falls in line with the discussion.

    http://football.calsci.com/Positions4.html

    As for TJ.
    I think it is a bit tough to analyze him the way you would normally do a rookie QB, if for no other reason than the fact that he came from a program that isn't a prime developer of a QB that could step right in and run a WCO.


    My assesment of TJ this year has been and will be based on 3 phases.

    Pre-snap.
    It seems that at times he is able to make the read, call the audible and hit the reciever in his hands but the reciever drops the ball.
    I am not gonna ping on the WR's here as that is all part of the game IMHO, but it is an indicator that he has been able to demonstrate the abilility to make the initial reads at the line pre-snap.

    On the flip side to that, he sometimes does make the wrong read because the defense does a good job of disguising thier intentions.
    IMHO that is an indicator of a couple of things.....
    a) Poor gameplanning by the coaching staff if the D does something that they have done in the past or b) I blame no one, if the D does something that they haven't shown before.


    Post-snap.
    This one has been hard for me as I just don't get a real good feel for what he is doing during his progression through the reads.
    As all of you know, I really think a young QB needs a bit more time than normal to get through this process and our OL just isn't helping out there.

    Anyway, what I am looking for, is simple basic stuff, does he keep the ball up and ready to throw, does he survey the field, does he get the ball out on time (short routes as well as long routes) and can he feel the pressure.

    Again, I am having trouble gauging this if for no other reason than our OL play however.....

    a.
    He keeps the ball up and doesn't put it in a place (his hips/ches) were a DE coming off the edge can slap at it.
    b.
    I think he does a pretty good job of surveying the field if he has made a correct pre-snap read of what the D is going to do.
    If he has made a bad pre-snap read, the ole "Deer in the Headlights" comment comes into play.
    c.
    As far as getting the ball out on time. I think he is not doing a good job of this.
    He could do better, however, I don't think it is as bad as some of you think.
    Most of you are basing your comments on his holding the ball to long (assumption on my part) based on watching a guy like Manning (the good one), Favre, and possibly Brady.
    Those guys, if you watch them play can get the ball out rather quickly, however, they all have the luxury of having huge pockets to work with and extra time to throw the ball while waiting for WR's to get open if they get jammed at the line or have to come back to the QB.
    Anyway, I am sure some of you will still disagree with me on that one.
    d. Accuracey.
    I think he can be accurate if he has time to set his feet and execute/make the proper mechanics behind a throw.
    Again, that all comes back to an assumption that he has time to step up in the pocket and drive off his back foot or the time to square his shoulders when rolling out/scrambleing.
    Still not sure on that/this one but I think he can and will be an accurate passer if given the correct protection.

    The third phase I look for, again, has been a hard one and that is during the next game.

    I just don't think I have had enough time to really get a feel for is he learning from past mistakes.
    The only true indicator I have seen is nothing more than an assumption he learned something from the Lions game and that is to not force the ball.

    IMHO, this has almost gone from one bad thing (forcing the ball) to another bad thing and that is hesitancy to take a chance to put the ball in a tight spot.
    That in turn has lead to alot of discussion on wether or not he is holding the ball to long.

    Long story short, I am still not convinced that he isn't going to be a good QB in this league or in this scheme for that matter.
    I would still like to see him get the reps (at least for a few more games) this season to see what we need to do next year.

    I sure hope the front office guys make the right decision.

    ;D

    This is a great thought out post....great debate maker. Much to consider in here Marrdro. You know we sure gave Culpepper a lot of time to come around....and built a team around him When Denny was here....Right or wrong it took time to construct. I think some of us are little gun shy of trying that again with T.J. I am looking for improvement and watching to see if he learns from his mistakes quick or not?? I am not sure how much longer we can give him to come around??

    Thanks again for your wonderful post

    Cheers!
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
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    Re: Jaworski comment regarding T. Jackson on ESPN

    "Frostbite" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Here is a great link that I think helps/falls in line with the discussion.

    http://football.calsci.com/Positions4.html

    As for TJ.
    I think it is a bit tough to analyze him the way you would normally do a rookie QB, if for no other reason than the fact that he came from a program that isn't a prime developer of a QB that could step right in and run a WCO.


    My assesment of TJ this year has been and will be based on 3 phases.

    Pre-snap.
    It seems that at times he is able to make the read, call the audible and hit the reciever in his hands but the reciever drops the ball.
    I am not gonna ping on the WR's here as that is all part of the game IMHO, but it is an indicator that he has been able to demonstrate the abilility to make the initial reads at the line pre-snap.

    On the flip side to that, he sometimes does make the wrong read because the defense does a good job of disguising thier intentions.
    IMHO that is an indicator of a couple of things.....
    a) Poor gameplanning by the coaching staff if the D does something that they have done in the past or b) I blame no one, if the D does something that they haven't shown before.


    Post-snap.
    This one has been hard for me as I just don't get a real good feel for what he is doing during his progression through the reads.
    As all of you know, I really think a young QB needs a bit more time than normal to get through this process and our OL just isn't helping out there.

    Anyway, what I am looking for, is simple basic stuff, does he keep the ball up and ready to throw, does he survey the field, does he get the ball out on time (short routes as well as long routes) and can he feel the pressure.

    Again, I am having trouble gauging this if for no other reason than our OL play however.....

    a.
    He keeps the ball up and doesn't put it in a place (his hips/ches) were a DE coming off the edge can slap at it.
    b.
    I think he does a pretty good job of surveying the field if he has made a correct pre-snap read of what the D is going to do.
    If he has made a bad pre-snap read, the ole "Deer in the Headlights" comment comes into play.
    c.
    As far as getting the ball out on time. I think he is not doing a good job of this.
    He could do better, however, I don't think it is as bad as some of you think.
    Most of you are basing your comments on his holding the ball to long (assumption on my part) based on watching a guy like Manning (the good one), Favre, and possibly Brady.
    Those guys, if you watch them play can get the ball out rather quickly, however, they all have the luxury of having huge pockets to work with and extra time to throw the ball while waiting for WR's to get open if they get jammed at the line or have to come back to the QB.
    Anyway, I am sure some of you will still disagree with me on that one.
    d. Accuracey.
    I think he can be accurate if he has time to set his feet and execute/make the proper mechanics behind a throw.
    Again, that all comes back to an assumption that he has time to step up in the pocket and drive off his back foot or the time to square his shoulders when rolling out/scrambleing.
    Still not sure on that/this one but I think he can and will be an accurate passer if given the correct protection.

    The third phase I look for, again, has been a hard one and that is during the next game.

    I just don't think I have had enough time to really get a feel for is he learning from past mistakes.
    The only true indicator I have seen is nothing more than an assumption he learned something from the Lions game and that is to not force the ball.

    IMHO, this has almost gone from one bad thing (forcing the ball) to another bad thing and that is hesitancy to take a chance to put the ball in a tight spot.
    That in turn has lead to alot of discussion on wether or not he is holding the ball to long.

    Long story short, I am still not convinced that he isn't going to be a good QB in this league or in this scheme for that matter.
    I would still like to see him get the reps (at least for a few more games) this season to see what we need to do next year.

    I sure hope the front office guys make the right decision.

    ;D

    This is a great thought out post....great debate maker. Much to consider in here Marrdro. You know we sure gave Culpepper a lot of time to come around....and built a team around him When Denny was here....Right or wrong it took time to construct. I think some of us are little gun shy of trying that again with T.J. I am looking for improvement and watching to see if he learns from his mistakes quick or not?? I am not sure how much longer we can give him to come around??

    Thanks again for your wonderful post

    Cheers!
    Thanks my friend.
    Its been said of me that I am strange to watch a game with as I have my notes page out, scouting reports, etc.

    Multi-tasking (taking notes and reading stuff) when you have a beast in your hand is a challenge.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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