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  1. #251
    Schutz's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    Around we go....
    Chiller Faults
    In game adjustments
    Bone headed play calling/ playbook
    *sigh*

    I am so sick of that myth that I'm about to bust a major blood vessel in my brain.

    Not a single ONE of you knows:
    1.
    What play was called
    2.
    What defense was called
    3.
    What assignments were made
    4.
    What assignments were missed

    It's REAL EASY, however, to jump on the "Bad play-calling, lousy adjustments" ship and go sailing along with the rest of the mediocre masses.

    IF you can:
    1.
    Find me a time where you KNOW THE EXACT PLAY THAT WAS CALLED (I want all the cool terminology), including the line-blocking calls, routes for WRs (if a pass)
    2.
    Tell me the DEFENSE (including post-huddle adjustments - use terminology!)
    3.
    Call out the made assignments
    4.
    Call out the missed assignments
    5.
    Draw a conclusion

    then I'll buy it.

    Until you do that, you're just a schmuck like me who has no clue.

    =Z=
    Zues,
    I am sorry you feel like I have to tell you what play was called. I don't know where you get that Idea. I can clarify.

    The way Chilldress subs our backs in an out is laughable. His refusal to use AD in the passing game chokes our running game to a hault. There is a reason that AD's stats diminished during the last 3 games. It gol 'darnit sure wasn't his knee( the same one he used to dropped 100+ yards on the lions)
    The issue is the Viking's "TELL"

    Just like poker football teams need a poker face. The defense is always looking for a way to tell pass from run. As a HS safety, I watched film on how the WR came out of their stances vs. run and pass. Reading their lackadisically movements to the line and seeing them job vs. sprint at the hike of the ball allowed me to cut my read times down considerably. What's the pointof this story? Simple! When childress pulls AD out of games on 3rd down, it helps the defense out. When childress passes on 1st down and then puts AD in on 2nd down, it lets the defense know what is coming. You can't have that obvious a tell and win in the NFl for very long. If you couldn't see that, i would love to play poker with you
    ;D

    This brings me to his playbook, I believe it's obvious that we don't have enough screens, tosses and swing patterns at our disposal. Some of you( Marr) believe that we as a team cannot run these plays due to teir timing difficulty. I counter that a screen is a easier throw to make
    for a QB than reading the underneath coverage and kitting the correct slant/post. Childress' play calling simply did TJ a disservice as much as TJ's terrible play last year. We need better play calling from the staff.

    Do not let defenses key on run vs. pass.
    Allow TJ to build a Rythem to his passes. He needs a few completions to get his swagger going. TJ when confident is a monster. When he is unsure, he chokes up like a newborn drinking from it's mother's tit.
    Keep AD on the field when we are down by 6 point. He is the the best weapon to take any touch( pass or run) the distance. I would love to see him on a slide and go. I don't think a LB can stay with him. If the ball is thrown right on the break, he will have 5 yards after the catch to make a move on the saftey or CB( cover 3)
    I would take that any day.

    Have a good 1.
    See, with that statement right there, you prove your level of understanding of the game.
    Do you seriously think that because you played HS safety you know more than anybody at all in the NFL?
    Childress didn't put AD in on passing downs BECAUSE HE SUCKED AT PASS BLOCKING.
    Now where have I heard that before?
    Oh yeah - because it's been said on PP.O over and over AND OVER AGAIN.

    We all know that AD was a strong indication of a run play.
    You knew it, I knew it, the play by play guys knew it, and despite what you think, Childress knew it.
    However he didn't have much of a choice.


    Now that AD has had a year to learn more about pass blocking, you can expect to see him in on passing downs more.
    That will help TJack too.
    Don't worry, this hasn't been lost on anybody on the Vikings coaching staff...
    Really, uncreative play calling was because AP was sub par at pass blocking?
    There was no other way he could have been worked in to switch things up?
    I'm not taking either side since I'm currently not in the Triangle of Doom, but NP you have about as much credibility saying Childress used AP that way because he HAD to.
    Just the same that we can't say for sure that Childress is completely inept at play calling, we can't say that his hand was forced either.

  2. #252
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "Schutz" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    Around we go....
    Chiller Faults
    In game adjustments
    Bone headed play calling/ playbook
    *sigh*

    I am so sick of that myth that I'm about to bust a major blood vessel in my brain.

    Not a single ONE of you knows:
    1.
    What play was called
    2.
    What defense was called
    3.
    What assignments were made
    4.
    What assignments were missed

    It's REAL EASY, however, to jump on the "Bad play-calling, lousy adjustments" ship and go sailing along with the rest of the mediocre masses.

    IF you can:
    1.
    Find me a time where you KNOW THE EXACT PLAY THAT WAS CALLED (I want all the cool terminology), including the line-blocking calls, routes for WRs (if a pass)
    2.
    Tell me the DEFENSE (including post-huddle adjustments - use terminology!)
    3.
    Call out the made assignments
    4.
    Call out the missed assignments
    5.
    Draw a conclusion

    then I'll buy it.

    Until you do that, you're just a schmuck like me who has no clue.

    =Z=
    Zues,
    I am sorry you feel like I have to tell you what play was called. I don't know where you get that Idea. I can clarify.

    The way Chilldress subs our backs in an out is laughable. His refusal to use AD in the passing game chokes our running game to a hault. There is a reason that AD's stats diminished during the last 3 games. It gol 'darnit sure wasn't his knee( the same one he used to dropped 100+ yards on the lions)
    The issue is the Viking's "TELL"

    Just like poker football teams need a poker face. The defense is always looking for a way to tell pass from run. As a HS safety, I watched film on how the WR came out of their stances vs. run and pass. Reading their lackadisically movements to the line and seeing them job vs. sprint at the hike of the ball allowed me to cut my read times down considerably. What's the pointof this story? Simple! When childress pulls AD out of games on 3rd down, it helps the defense out. When childress passes on 1st down and then puts AD in on 2nd down, it lets the defense know what is coming. You can't have that obvious a tell and win in the NFl for very long. If you couldn't see that, i would love to play poker with you
    ;D

    This brings me to his playbook, I believe it's obvious that we don't have enough screens, tosses and swing patterns at our disposal. Some of you( Marr) believe that we as a team cannot run these plays due to teir timing difficulty. I counter that a screen is a easier throw to make
    for a QB than reading the underneath coverage and kitting the correct slant/post. Childress' play calling simply did TJ a disservice as much as TJ's terrible play last year. We need better play calling from the staff.

    Do not let defenses key on run vs. pass.
    Allow TJ to build a Rythem to his passes. He needs a few completions to get his swagger going. TJ when confident is a monster. When he is unsure, he chokes up like a newborn drinking from it's mother's tit.
    Keep AD on the field when we are down by 6 point. He is the the best weapon to take any touch( pass or run) the distance. I would love to see him on a slide and go. I don't think a LB can stay with him. If the ball is thrown right on the break, he will have 5 yards after the catch to make a move on the saftey or CB( cover 3)
    I would take that any day.

    Have a good 1.
    See, with that statement right there, you prove your level of understanding of the game.
    Do you seriously think that because you played HS safety you know more than anybody at all in the NFL?
    Childress didn't put AD in on passing downs BECAUSE HE SUCKED AT PASS BLOCKING.
    Now where have I heard that before?
    Oh yeah - because it's been said on PP.O over and over AND OVER AGAIN.

    We all know that AD was a strong indication of a run play.
    You knew it, I knew it, the play by play guys knew it, and despite what you think, Childress knew it.
    However he didn't have much of a choice.


    Now that AD has had a year to learn more about pass blocking, you can expect to see him in on passing downs more.
    That will help TJack too.
    Don't worry, this hasn't been lost on anybody on the Vikings coaching staff...
    Really, uncreative play calling was because AP was sub par at pass blocking?
    There was no other way he could have been worked in to switch things up?
    I'm not taking either side since I'm currently not in the Triangle of Doom, but NP you have about as much credibility saying Childress used AP that way because he HAD to.
    Just the same that we can't say for sure that Childress is completely inept at play calling, we can't say that his hand was forced either.
    Tice would have figured out a way to make it work. Maybe some day Childress will too.

  3. #253
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "NordicNed" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Personally, I don't consider Tice a great coach, But I do get defensive when people say he sucks but Childress is great when Tice basically got the shaft during his term while Childress has gotten the silver spoon.
    What about when people say that Tice sucked and the jury is still out on Childress.
    Because that is what I have been saying for about 8 pages now...
    And the jury is still out on Childress. You can't build a team overnight, even with an open pocketbook.

    The difference is, many of the people who say the jury is still out on Childress, didn't say the same for Tice after two years. They were saying he sucked after the first & second years & calling for his head.

    Tice was building the team as well, but he was doing it at a much slower pace because he didn't have the open pocketbook.

    It was Tice & Brzezinski who were working a plan to acquire those players by working their cap the way they were & still are working it today.

    Brzezinski talked about that plan after Tice was let go. He had nothing but praise for Tice & was upset when he was let go prematurely before the plan reached fruitation. The article was posted here in 2006 & I wish I could find it again. It was one of the best articles I read in support of Tice & it was by someone in the front office that is highly revered.
    I wouldn't bother, it won't do anything to curb the hate.
    ;D
    And Tice is a Head Coach where now??????????????????

    Oh thats right, he's not one....

    Keep living the dream Singer.
    Tice was a MEATHEAD, and he didn't get the nickname by accident.
    Tice wasn't and won't ever be head coaching material, and I believe owners and the NFL in general know that.
    Of course his friends said nice things about him, he probably gave them some extra Super Bowl tickets he got off the players....



    Like I said, a MEATHEAD !
    Tice is not ready to be a HC again. He needs the experience in other coaching positions first before he can make that leap. Going from coaching an O-Line to coaching a team doesn't work. It's to big a leap.

    And you can go on living the dream that everything was Tice's fault & Red McCombs wasn't to blame for any of it.

    You can also go on living the dream that the Vikings were the only team to scalp tickets.

    Yes I said team.

    If you recall, several players & coaches in the organization scalped their tickets. Tice is the one who took the punishment for it.

    Tice collected the tickets & gave them to either another coach to give to a ticket broker or gave them to the broker himself. That was the extent of his involvement.

    No one else was punished.

    Of course, you still have nothing but love for the players who scalped theirs.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #254
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    Around we go....

    I think both coaches are a push.

    Chiller Pros:
    Game scripting
    Discipline
    Accountablility

    Chiller Faults
    In game adjustments
    Bone headed play calling/ playbook


    Tice Pros:
    Made playoffs with no run game and a bad defense.
    In game adjustments way better than Childress
    has a better feel for the game.
    Used his weapons to maximize their potential.

    Tice:Cons
    Bone Headed Challenges
    Bone headed Game scripting


    I call it a draw but I believe that both were green coaches.
    Why look back at Tice? Childress is the man now and lets just get on board.
    The 1 thing I can't stand about Childress...is the way he lets the defense know exactly whats coming.
    Example

    CT is in and we pass two times in a row. He subs out CT for AD. I think my blind other knows a run is coming. What he needs to do is use AD in passing situations. Create routes for the guy if he has a problem blocking? Does NO leave Reggie Bush in to pass block? No he is aweful at it but they use him as a reciving threat with wheel, slides and swing passes. This is how you keep a defense honest. Defenses simply had to react, they didn't have to think against us last year and that was Childresses fault. Tice atleast kept them guessing.
    You forgot to add "Bone Headed Challenges" to Childress' cons. He's made quite a few in 2 years time.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #255
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Vikings | Players upset and frustrated with offense - from www.KFFL.com
    Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:35:45 -0800

    KSTP.com reports two players from the Minnesota Vikings told 5 Eyewitness News a majority of the team's players are upset, frustrated and aggravated with head coach Brad Childress' offensive philosophies and his play-calling. The majority of players say Childress has been approached by players and coaches to try and jump start the offense. The players claim the system handcuffed QB Brad Johnson, who recently lost his starting job to QB Tarvaris Jackson. Johnson made repeated attempts and suggestions to Childress in hopes of improving the offense. The players do believe that Childress is well organized and well structured, but feel he needs to be more flexible in his play calls.
    I need to go find the one were he explains that.......

    Something about the coaching staff coaching to a
    straight line and players realizing when they can deviate that line after they get comfortable with the system.

    By the way, that is kindof old.
    I bet everyone of the players quoted are the non-comformists that couldn't even run the straight line that he shitcanned right away.
    ;D
    ;D
    ;D
    Every team I read that quote, I think:
    "Marcus Robinson and Brad Johnson".

    =Z=
    He was also approached by both Sharper & Winfield on the handcuffing.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #256
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "kevoncox" wrote:

    This brings me to his playbook, I believe it's obvious that we don't have enough screens, tosses and swing patterns at our disposal. Some of you( Marr) believe that we as a team cannot run these plays due to teir timing difficulty. I counter that a screen is a easier throw to make
    for a QB than reading the underneath coverage and kitting the correct slant/post. Childress' play calling simply did TJ a disservice as much as TJ's terrible play last year. We need better play calling from the staff.
    You didn't have to be a Washington lawyer to figure out every time AD was in there it was going to be a run. Sure there were a few passes in there, but if I was a betting man, I'd play the run & be correct damn near all the time.

    As far as the playbook is concerned, here's my take on it. There were quite a few new faces on the offense this year in key roles. Rice, Allison, Ferguson, AD, Wade & Shiancoe. Jackson, Richardson & Taylor were only in their 2nd year, with Jackson starting for the first time. It was also Richardson's first full year. He missed 7 games in 2006 due to injury.

    T-Will & Jimmy K, were two of the few who played in Childress' WCO offense in both 2006 & 2007, besides the linemen.

    That's a lot of players learning the huge playbook at one crack. I believe Childress & the staff kept the play calls very vanilla, with the exception of a few gadget plays, until the players learned those plays & could execute them well. As they master them, new ones will be added as they go until the entire playbook is learned by everyone.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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