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  1. #101
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    3) Drafts.
    Unlike today, under Red McCheap the head coach had a lot of say in the drafts.
    The first round picks under Tice were Bryant McKinnie , Kevin Williams, Kenechi Udeze, Troy Williamson, and Erasmus James.
    McKinnie was an accident (we were trying to get Ryan Sims but couldn't get up there in time) and so was Williams (again, late - but this time they claimed to want Williams the whole time).
    4) Win-Loss record.
    He ended his head coaching career after four years with a record of 32-33.
    The first two years are understandable, but the third and fourth are not.
    Tice didn't have the luxury of having a VP of Player Personnel... remember that too.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  2. #102
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I completely agree!!!... i think if Tice had a better scouting department, and an owner who would actually spend the money, and could have actually kept a defensive coordinator.. he would have been even better....

    I'm not saying
    i don't like our direction we're going in.. but i clearly think Tice did more with less.. esp. after watching last year... he even made better half time and in game adjustments than chilly...

    the jury is still out.. but at this point the difference is hardly a no brainer/contest
    And if Childress had inherited a team that wasn't dysfunctional, he'd be better.
    And if Daunte didn't become a whiny beeyatch, Childress would have been even better.
    And if the Queen had balls she'd be the King.

    You can't base your judgments on what-ifs.
    Tice drove the Vikings into the ground.
    Childress has been building it up ever since.
    You can't be serious!!!.... while i agree Chilly has brought in better character players... Tice didn't have that much to work with.. i.e. the smallest
    scouting dept. and coaching staff in the league...


    additionally, it all starts from up top!!.. and i think our ownership is 10x better than it was before...


    Either way, i still don't understand how yu take a 9-7 team and turn them into a 6-10 team.. chilly clearly came here bc we had the most talent... he's been adding talent and trying to figure out how to coach ever since....
    I think peole are confusing coaching with ownership.

    It's ownership, not Chilly, that allows us to bring in names like Allen and Berrian.

    Tice had one of the cheapest owners in the league, and still managed a better record.
    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

    Childress is 14-18 in his first 32 games.
    Tice was 14-18 in his first 32 games.
    Jesus, why do you constantly ignore that?
    Hell, I give Childress credit for being able to go 6-10 with the shithole of a team that Tice left him with.
    Really?

    Tice took the Brad Johnson Vikings to a 9-7 record...

    Chilly took the Brad Johnson Vikings to a 6-10 record...

    That's the best indicator because the personnel was close to the same.



    I think we can agree that McCombs was an awful team owner though.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  3. #103
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    I completely agree!!!... i think if Tice had a better scouting department, and an owner who would actually spend the money, and could have actually kept a defensive coordinator.. he would have been even better....

    I'm not saying
    i don't like our direction we're going in.. but i clearly think Tice did more with less.. esp. after watching last year... he even made better half time and in game adjustments than chilly...

    the jury is still out.. but at this point the difference is hardly a no brainer/contest
    And if Childress had inherited a team that wasn't dysfunctional, he'd be better.
    And if Daunte didn't become a whiny beeyatch, Childress would have been even better.
    And if the Queen had balls she'd be the King.

    You can't base your judgments on what-ifs.
    Tice drove the Vikings into the ground.
    Childress has been building it up ever since.
    You can't be serious!!!.... while i agree Chilly has brought in better character players... Tice didn't have that much to work with.. i.e. the smallest
    scouting dept. and coaching staff in the league...


    additionally, it all starts from up top!!.. and i think our ownership is 10x better than it was before...


    Either way, i still don't understand how yu take a 9-7 team and turn them into a 6-10 team.. chilly clearly came here bc we had the most talent... he's been adding talent and trying to figure out how to coach ever since....
    I think peole are confusing coaching with ownership.

    It's ownership, not Chilly, that allows us to bring in names like Allen and Berrian.

    Tice had one of the cheapest owners in the league, and still managed a better record.
    That is the big difference.

    You really have to look at it this way:

    When Tice took over the Vikings from Green, the team was in turmoil and the management was in disarray as Red was trying to sell the team and capture as much savings on payroll, capital investment and expenditures as possible.

    So instead if tice, try to visualize Childress in his first year as a head coach facing the same situation and environment and ask if you really feel he would have been able,in those circumstances,to post a better record than Tice did.

    IMHO he would not have been able to do any better with what he had to work with.

    Remember, before you say Childress inherited a bad team in what he had, Tice inherited a team that was 5-11 the previous year and he had an owner who would not spend any money in FA to fill the voids,plus there was a skeleton scouting staff to look at who to draft. I really would be interested in hearing how Childress would have taken that turd and polished it.

  4. #104
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    [quote author=bleedpurple link=topic=46126.msg800866#msg800866 date=1215632228]
    I completely agree!!!... i think if Tice had a better scouting department, and an owner who would actually spend the money, and could have actually kept a defensive coordinator.. he would have been even better....

    I'm not saying
    i don't like our direction we're going in.. but i clearly think Tice did more with less.. esp. after watching last year... he even made better half time and in game adjustments than chilly...

    the jury is still out.. but at this point the difference is hardly a no brainer/contest
    And if Childress had inherited a team that wasn't dysfunctional, he'd be better.
    And if Daunte didn't become a whiny beeyatch, Childress would have been even better.
    And if the Queen had balls she'd be the King.

    You can't base your judgments on what-ifs.
    Tice drove the Vikings into the ground.
    Childress has been building it up ever since.
    You can't be serious!!!.... while i agree Chilly has brought in better character players... Tice didn't have that much to work with.. i.e. the smallest
    scouting dept. and coaching staff in the league...


    additionally, it all starts from up top!!.. and i think our ownership is 10x better than it was before...


    Either way, i still don't understand how yu take a 9-7 team and turn them into a 6-10 team.. chilly clearly came here bc we had the most talent... he's been adding talent and trying to figure out how to coach ever since....
    I think peole are confusing coaching with ownership.

    It's ownership, not Chilly, that allows us to bring in names like Allen and Berrian.

    Tice had one of the cheapest owners in the league, and still managed a better record.
    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

    Childress is 14-18 in his first 32 games.
    Tice was 14-18 in his first 32 games.
    Jesus, why do you constantly ignore that?
    Hell, I give Childress credit for being able to go 6-10 with the shithole of a team that Tice left him with.
    Really?

    Tice took the Brad Johnson Vikings to a 9-7 record...

    Chilly took the Brad Johnson Vikings to a 6-10 record...

    That's the best indicator because the personnel was close to the same.



    I think we can agree that McCombs was an awful team owner though.
    [/quote]

    That was Tice's fourth (and final) year as a head coach, and Childress's first.
    Poor comparison.
    Next.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #105
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    That was Tice's fourth (and final) year as a head coach, and Childress's first.
    Poor comparison.
    Next.
    Well, I think Uffda puts it rather nicely actually:

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    That is the big difference.

    You really have to look at it this way:

    When Tice took over the Vikings from Green, the team was in turmoil and the management was in disarray as Red was trying to sell the team and capture as much savings on payroll, capital investment and expenditures as possible.

    So instead if tice, try to visualize Childress in his first year as a head coach facing the same situation and environment and ask if you really feel he would have been able,in those circumstances,to post a better record than Tice did.

    IMHO he would not have been able to do any better with what he had to work with.

    Remember, before you say Childress inherited a bad team in what he had, Tice inherited a team that was 5-11 the previous year and he had an owner who would not spend any money in FA to fill the voids,plus there was a skeleton scouting staff to look at who to draft. I really would be interested in hearing how Childress would have taken that turd and polished it.
    Pesky facts...
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  6. #106
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    That is the big difference.

    You really have to look at it this way:

    When Tice took over the Vikings from Green, the team was in turmoil and the management was in disarray as Red was trying to sell the team and capture as much savings on payroll, capital investment and expenditures as possible.

    So instead if tice, try to visualize Childress in his first year as a head coach facing the same situation and environment and ask if you really feel he would have been able,in those circumstances,to post a better record than Tice did.

    IMHO he would not have been able to do any better with what he had to work with.

    Remember, before you say Childress inherited a bad team in what he had, Tice inherited a team that was 5-11 the previous year and he had an owner who would not spend any money in FA to fill the voids,plus there was a skeleton scouting staff to look at who to draft. I really would be interested in hearing how Childress would have taken that turd and polished it.
    Can't really comment on whether or not Childress would have done better in the same situation as Tice... That is pure speculation.
    I would actually think that Childress would have done about the same or worse than Tice in that instance.
    Mostly because Childress actually made changes, while Tice just hung on to Green's playbooks.


    But that is besides the point anyway.
    This whole thing started when someone said that Tice put competitive teams on the field, while Childress did not.
    I disagree.
    I do NOT see how anyone can say that Tice's teams were more competitive.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #107
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    That was Tice's fourth (and final) year as a head coach, and Childress's first.
    Poor comparison.
    Next.
    Well, I think Uffda puts it rather nicely actually:

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    That is the big difference.

    You really have to look at it this way:

    When Tice took over the Vikings from Green, the team was in turmoil and the management was in disarray as Red was trying to sell the team and capture as much savings on payroll, capital investment and expenditures as possible.

    So instead if tice, try to visualize Childress in his first year as a head coach facing the same situation and environment and ask if you really feel he would have been able,in those circumstances,to post a better record than Tice did.

    IMHO he would not have been able to do any better with what he had to work with.

    Remember, before you say Childress inherited a bad team in what he had, Tice inherited a team that was 5-11 the previous year and he had an owner who would not spend any money in FA to fill the voids,plus there was a skeleton scouting staff to look at who to draft. I really would be interested in hearing how Childress would have taken that turd and polished it.
    Pesky facts...
    Fact - a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened
    Speculation - a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence

    Try not to confuse the two.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #108
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    That is the big difference.

    You really have to look at it this way:

    When Tice took over the Vikings from Green, the team was in turmoil and the management was in disarray as Red was trying to sell the team and capture as much savings on payroll, capital investment and expenditures as possible.

    So instead if tice, try to visualize Childress in his first year as a head coach facing the same situation and environment and ask if you really feel he would have been able,in those circumstances,to post a better record than Tice did.

    IMHO he would not have been able to do any better with what he had to work with.

    Remember, before you say Childress inherited a bad team in what he had, Tice inherited a team that was 5-11 the previous year and he had an owner who would not spend any money in FA to fill the voids,plus there was a skeleton scouting staff to look at who to draft. I really would be interested in hearing how Childress would have taken that turd and polished it.
    Can't really comment on whether or not Childress would have done better in the same situation as Tice... That is pure speculation.
    I would actually think that Childress would have done about the same or worse than Tice in that instance.
    Mostly because Childress actually made changes, while Tice just hung on to Green's playbooks.


    But that is besides the point anyway.
    This whole thing started when someone said that Tice put competitive teams on the field, while Childress did not.
    I disagree.
    I do NOT see how anyone can say that Tice's teams were more competitive.
    UUUUHHHH Seriously dude!!!... did you see that Green Bay game last year???... worst ass whooopin in decades.. if not ever!!!...

  9. #109
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    That was Tice's fourth (and final) year as a head coach, and Childress's first.
    Poor comparison.
    Next.
    So, you'd rather use stats that are 5 years apart and from completely different teams? Seems to be an even weaker comparison.

    OR... the almost identical roster... two different coaches.

    Advantage: C Mac (to the motha-f*ckin) D

    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  10. #110
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    Re: Jackson’s the fly in Minnesota’s ointment

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    UUUUHHHH Seriously dude!!!... did you see that Green Bay game last year???... worst ass whooopin in decades.. if not ever!!!...
    And it was by Green Bay...


    However, don't forget the 2000 NFC Championship Game...

    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

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