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  1. #101
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    marshallvike wrote:
    singersp wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    mountainviking wrote:
    In the past 2 years of limited duty TJack has completed 60% of his passes for an impressive 7.4 yards/attempt average (Favre's career is 7.1) and an excellent 10 TDs to Only 2 INTs ratio!! To that add the 2 first downs he gets with his feet most games, and the improvement of the team around him, and I see no reason why not to give him another shot at being the no.1!
    Again, as has been pointed out, that is based upon stats in a vacuum. What actually occured during those games, and the manner in which his stats were garnered is what concerns many of us, especially me. He has been purely the product of the system, not the gear that makes it go. As such, he is easily replaced by almost anyone with even a small amount of talent (And he WAS replaced, for almost an entire season, by an aged Gus Frerotte).

    This is in direct comparrison to what happens when someone with a lot of talent shows up to drive the bus...and the Offense takes off.

    There is no doubt that the "team around him" has improved...the question is whether or not Jackson has improved
    at the same rate, or at an "acceptable" rate. To me, he simply hasn't.

    Caine
    LOL! How do you know how much he has or hasn't improved? Last I checked Favre started every game last year.

    If you're going to base your perception of how much he didn't improved based on the mop up duty he did after Favre left the game & we had a win in hand, I'll LOL again.
    singer, good to see you posting.

    I'm a TJack guy though
    its a relapse... I tell you, this site is worse than crack.

  2. #102
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    singersp wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    mountainviking wrote:
    In the past 2 years of limited duty TJack has completed 60% of his passes for an impressive 7.4 yards/attempt average (Favre's career is 7.1) and an excellent 10 TDs to Only 2 INTs ratio!! To that add the 2 first downs he gets with his feet most games, and the improvement of the team around him, and I see no reason why not to give him another shot at being the no.1!
    Again, as has been pointed out, that is based upon stats in a vacuum. What actually occured during those games, and the manner in which his stats were garnered is what concerns many of us, especially me. He has been purely the product of the system, not the gear that makes it go. As such, he is easily replaced by almost anyone with even a small amount of talent (And he WAS replaced, for almost an entire season, by an aged Gus Frerotte).

    This is in direct comparrison to what happens when someone with a lot of talent shows up to drive the bus...and the Offense takes off.

    There is no doubt that the "team around him" has improved...the question is whether or not Jackson has improved
    at the same rate, or at an "acceptable" rate. To me, he simply hasn't.

    Caine
    LOL! How do you know how much he has or hasn't improved? Last I checked Favre started every game last year.

    If you're going to base your perception of how much he didn't improved based on the mop up duty he did after Favre left the game & we had a win in hand, I'll LOL again.
    Tell that to CMac! Exactly what I said about his 110 rating and I was called a racist for that remark. Watch out you may get labeled.........oh wait you are defending TJ he won't label you. Nor will he see the hypocrisy in it. Opinions go both ways you have no idea how good TJ is just like you say no one knows how bad he is; this is all conjecture and wasted time. If they trot him out there we will see, I just hope if he stinks it up the TJ lovers will at least see his errors and not go into the blame game. Pride makes people defend the undefendable. If he does great, great for the Vikes!

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  3. #103
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    Marrdro wrote:
    jargomcfargo wrote:
    Now it gets even worse for Jackson. He has to follow Favre.
    Damn, I didn't think of that. Excellent point my friend.

    In the end, the Noodle will still be pissing me off even after he leaves.
    12 million well spent!

  4. #104
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    Marrdro wrote:
    AKViking wrote:
    If TJ learns visually, why was Sage the only one siting next to Favre looking at game polaroids ALL season? Was TJ pouting? Probably, even his aunty was asking why he looked so sad on the sidelines. His reply: "I'm just in my own little world." Whaaa!!! If you were up to par as a Qb they wouldn't have begged Brett to come out of retirement. So put up or shut up. Me thinks TJ just didn't like his role as padawan learner. There is no try young TJ, there is only do!
    Did you ever stop to consider that maybe it was a sign that he (TJ) understood what he was seeing from the sideline and maybe Sage didn't?

    That is a bit more plausable than to sit here and think that a grown man would act like a little kid.
    LMFAO! That was a good one.

  5. #105
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    my mistake

    he was originally an original-round tender, but it was dropped to a 3rd round tender when the VIkes used their 2nd round tender on Fred Evans
    LOL so Evans was worth more than TJ. Suck on that Marrdro! LOL

  6. #106
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    singersp wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    mountainviking wrote:
    In the past 2 years of limited duty TJack has completed 60% of his passes for an impressive 7.4 yards/attempt average (Favre's career is 7.1) and an excellent 10 TDs to Only 2 INTs ratio!! To that add the 2 first downs he gets with his feet most games, and the improvement of the team around him, and I see no reason why not to give him another shot at being the no.1!
    Again, as has been pointed out, that is based upon stats in a vacuum. What actually occured during those games, and the manner in which his stats were garnered is what concerns many of us, especially me. He has been purely the product of the system, not the gear that makes it go. As such, he is easily replaced by almost anyone with even a small amount of talent (And he WAS replaced, for almost an entire season, by an aged Gus Frerotte).

    This is in direct comparrison to what happens when someone with a lot of talent shows up to drive the bus...and the Offense takes off.

    There is no doubt that the "team around him" has improved...the question is whether or not Jackson has improved
    at the same rate, or at an "acceptable" rate. To me, he simply hasn't.

    Caine
    LOL! How do you know how much he has or hasn't improved? Last I checked Favre started every game last year.

    If you're going to base your perception of how much he didn't improved based on the mop up duty he did after Favre left the game & we had a win in hand, I'll LOL again.
    Interesting. Favre stated all the games. I wonder who said he would not?

  7. #107
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    If we looked at Favre's more recent stats.. we would have concluded that he probably would have thrown for just as many INTs as TDs.. Possibly even more. He's aging, his arm is a big unknown (with surgery and all), and he's a statue. Oh, and he has shown to make really poor decisions. Every stat we would came up with could have shown us that he's basically done for prior to last season.

    And what happened? The unthinkable. He came, he saw, he conquered all. Oh, and he ended up throwing a career low in INTs.. a stat that NO ONE had the cajones to predict.

    My point? We are trying to base T-Jack's future by the bits of stats of his past. I know it's the trendy thing to do, and I know and agree that he hasn't shown much. But try to have an open mind if he comes in to play for us. It'll help you deal with the success our favorite NFL team will have despite your personal opinions on how you predicted T-Jack would play.

    Me personally? Until he's shown he's absolutely NOT our guy (which will be when he's benched/released/etc.) I'm going to cheer my ass off for him just as hard as I cheer for the Pukers to get smoked week in and week out.
    Vegans are eating the rainforests. =(

  8. #108
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    Formo wrote:
    If we looked at Favre's more recent stats.. we would have concluded that he probably would have thrown for just as many INTs as TDs.. Possibly even more. He's aging, his arm is a big unknown (with surgery and all), and he's a statue. Oh, and he has shown to make really poor decisions. Every stat we would came up with could have shown us that he's basically done for prior to last season.

    And what happened? The unthinkable. He came, he saw, he conquered all. Oh, and he ended up throwing a career low in INTs.. a stat that NO ONE had the cajones to predict.

    My point? We are trying to base T-Jack's future by the bits of stats of his past. I know it's the trendy thing to do, and I know and agree that he hasn't shown much. But try to have an open mind if he comes in to play for us. It'll help you deal with the success our favorite NFL team will have despite your personal opinions on how you predicted T-Jack would play.

    Me personally? Until he's shown he's absolutely NOT our guy (which will be when he's benched/released/etc.) I'm going to cheer my ass off for him just as hard as I cheer for the Pukers to get smoked week in and week out.
    Interesting point Formo.

    Then again if you look at expectations for Brett it was dealing with data from him playing on other teams. it was coming to the Vikings and with the talent that surrounded him that he was able to excel. The way I see it, TJ was given that same talent and he floundered in the system outside of a few select games. You can take stats any way you want but just watching the two play in the same offense and seeing how they run it should be enough to give you a good idea of what to expect. There is no light switch that is going to be turned on. You may see a small incremental improvement in one area or another but the body of work in total is going to be similar to what we have seen in the past. A good game here or there mixed in with a bunch of uninspiring moments and a bunch of WTF's.

  9. #109
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    Formo wrote:
    If we looked at Favre's more recent stats.. we would have concluded that he probably would have thrown for just as many INTs as TDs.. Possibly even more. He's aging, his arm is a big unknown (with surgery and all), and he's a statue. Oh, and he has shown to make really poor decisions. Every stat we would came up with could have shown us that he's basically done for prior to last season.

    And what happened? The unthinkable. He came, he saw, he conquered all. Oh, and he ended up throwing a career low in INTs.. a stat that NO ONE had the cajones to predict.

    My point? We are trying to base T-Jack's future by the bits of stats of his past. I know it's the trendy thing to do, and I know and agree that he hasn't shown much. But try to have an open mind if he comes in to play for us. It'll help you deal with the success our favorite NFL team will have despite your personal opinions on how you predicted T-Jack would play.

    Me personally? Until he's shown he's absolutely NOT our guy (which will be when he's benched/released/etc.) I'm going to cheer my ass off for him just as hard as I cheer for the Pukers to get smoked week in and week out.
    One fatal flaw in your logic: Favre has already proven his ability to perform at a high level consistently. Jackson has not.

    Further, you're forced to make one of two conclusions based upon the results of last season. Either;

    A: The team around Favre made him look much better.

    or

    B: Favre kicks ass.

    If you go with option A, then you're left to explain why Jackson doesn't look anywhere near as good, with almost the same team.

    If you go with option B, you simply have to admit that Jackson has sucked wang these past seasons.

    Regardless, in every statistical scenario you can dream up to validate Jackson, the end result is that he simply has NOT - to date - shown that he CAN be the starter...which, by extension, means he cannot be. And, unless there is MAJOR improvement in almost all phases of his game, he will continue to NOT be.

    The trouble with the Jackson supporters is you're all trying to sell us on the notion that he MIGHT have improved, or he COULD be better...all of which is wishful thinking. Truth is, we ALL hope he's gotten better...much as we hope every player on the roster has improved to a Pro-Bowl level.

    But wishing it to be so doesn't make it so. Jackson had 3 years to show he could get the job done - he failed to do so by every imaginable criteria and was REPLACED by a retired Brett Favre. To expect Jackson to suddenly emerge as an elite QB is a pipe dream.

    The truth is, all the Jackson fans will likely get their wish. The fact that we have not made a serious move on a legit QB replacement means that either we're going after McNabb next season, or Jackson will be back. And if we get Jackson, we'll all get to see exactly how "improved" he really is....

    Caine

  10. #110
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    Re:Jackson has 'wanted change' but not now

    Caine wrote:
    Formo wrote:
    If we looked at Favre's more recent stats.. we would have concluded that he probably would have thrown for just as many INTs as TDs.. Possibly even more. He's aging, his arm is a big unknown (with surgery and all), and he's a statue. Oh, and he has shown to make really poor decisions. Every stat we would came up with could have shown us that he's basically done for prior to last season.

    And what happened? The unthinkable. He came, he saw, he conquered all. Oh, and he ended up throwing a career low in INTs.. a stat that NO ONE had the cajones to predict.

    My point? We are trying to base T-Jack's future by the bits of stats of his past. I know it's the trendy thing to do, and I know and agree that he hasn't shown much. But try to have an open mind if he comes in to play for us. It'll help you deal with the success our favorite NFL team will have despite your personal opinions on how you predicted T-Jack would play.

    Me personally? Until he's shown he's absolutely NOT our guy (which will be when he's benched/released/etc.) I'm going to cheer my ass off for him just as hard as I cheer for the Pukers to get smoked week in and week out.
    One fatal flaw in your logic: Favre has already proven his ability to perform at a high level consistently. Jackson has not.

    Further, you're forced to make one of two conclusions based upon the results of last season. Either;

    A: The team around Favre made him look much better.

    or

    B: Favre kicks ass.

    If you go with option A, then you're left to explain why Jackson doesn't look anywhere near as good, with almost the same team.

    If you go with option B, you simply have to admit that Jackson has sucked wang these past seasons.

    Regardless, in every statistical scenario you can dream up to validate Jackson, the end result is that he simply has NOT - to date - shown that he CAN be the starter...which, by extension, means he cannot be. And, unless there is MAJOR improvement in almost all phases of his game, he will continue to NOT be.

    The trouble with the Jackson supporters is you're all trying to sell us on the notion that he MIGHT have improved, or he COULD be better...all of which is wishful thinking. Truth is, we ALL hope he's gotten better...much as we hope every player on the roster has improved to a Pro-Bowl level.

    But wishing it to be so doesn't make it so. Jackson had 3 years to show he could get the job done - he failed to do so by every imaginable criteria and was REPLACED by a retired Brett Favre. To expect Jackson to suddenly emerge as an elite QB is a pipe dream.

    The truth is, all the Jackson fans will likely get their wish. The fact that we have not made a serious move on a legit QB replacement means that either we're going after McNabb next season, or Jackson will be back. And if we get Jackson, we'll all get to see exactly how "improved" he really is....

    Caine
    Sarcasm on

    But Caine, Jackson has a 113.4 QB rating this past year and a 95.5 in 2008. How can you say these things about Jackson? Where are those linear graphs when you need them? I'll show you!

    Sarcasm off

    I agree with everything you say here. Although I do think TJ has the potential of being a decent NFL QB, he has not proven it yet as a full time starter. He has not brought the intangables or leadership qualities needed by a starting QB to be successful. I think he has improved in looking to his 2nd option WR but it still remains t be seen if he can go further than that. Plus his accuracy has been inconsistent at best.

    Therefore, all I can say at this point he has the potential of becoming better and as of right now all that is wishful thinking as Caine said.

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