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  1. #11
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I respectfully disagree. And I think that everyone who remembers the 1984 season needs to really think about how bad that season was.

    First of all, Steckel had a very different team than the Vikes. He took an 8-8 team that competed for the NFC Central title the year before (Detroit won with a 9-7 record). And he followed a coach who had pretty big shoes to fill. And his disciplinarian attitude completely lost the locker room. By week 12 they weren't even trying any more.
    Frazier inherited the team in 2010 with 6 games left to go. He inherited a team that played in the NFC Championship game the year before with a record of 12-4. He finished 3-3.

    He's 2-9 this season and if not for a missed chip shot FG, he'd be 1-10.

    Steckel definitely tried to run the team like a military boot camp, which Frazier is not, but his team, despite a handful of players, looks to be playing without motivation, heart or desire, not to mention committing 7.3 penalties per game.
    Last edited by singersp; 11-29-2011 at 05:07 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #12
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    Frazier has been a coach in the NFL for 12 years!

    How many starts does he need? (sarcasm off)
    Last edited by singersp; 11-29-2011 at 05:57 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  3. #13
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    AngloVike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    I agree. It's unfair to judge Frazier just yet. Give him some tools for his toolbox and some time to work with those tools, then fire him if he shows nothing. I actually think he is going to work out fine, but Musgrave may have to go.
    He already has one complete tool with Musgrave running the offense so no need to add to the collection.
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


  4. #14
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    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    I marvel at the posters on here who say this team is without talent or the lack of training camp time as an excuses to keep this yutz as our HC.

    Name me the OL or WR's on the Bengals.
    How much time did the new HC of the 49'rs have with his staff and team to get ready.

    Gimme a break. There was a reason why Leslie had so many interviews without getting selected as a HC over the years. Those teams knew he would fail.

    As to the talent of this team. Again, one more time for possible penetration, 16 players have moved on from the 2009 team. 8 of them were starters (been a while since I did that thread so I might be one or two off) . There are teams out there right now winning with a hell of alot less talent than we have my friends.

    This is nothing more than piss poor coaching.

    OL sucks cause we have a O-coord who continues to try to run plays out of formations that allow defenses to just stand at the line and hold a gap.

    OL sucks cause we have a O-line coach who can't figure out what type of blocking scheme he wants to run so he now uses 3 and if my observations are correct, 4 blockings sets per game. No wonder we see guys like Hutch and Sauce looking like asses when it comes to blocking.

    Defense is a shambles cause he refuses to change from his beloved C2 defense without a true 0 technique NT to collapse the pocket. Not only does that affect the DE's, but it also makes our DB's and LB's look like shit. Hell, for that matter, we can't do what we used to do best, make a team one dimensional by taking away the running game? Why, cause teams can now run it down our throats at will.

    Talent and time is not our issue. Coaching is. This cat was selected for two reasons...........He was cheap and the yutz fans wanted a "Nice Guy".

    I had to chuckle though.....My daughter was watching the game with me last Sunday. Out of nowhere she shouts......"HE MOVED". She say Frazier actually move on the sideline. LOL.

    Made me think of the fans who used to beeeeeyyyyyatch that the Chiller wasn't animated enough on the sideline as a reason to fire his ass.

    What a joke.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
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    We don't have the talent, at least not enough of it.. We might have some really good guys who are elite, but other than that, not so much..

    Herrera has been poor and when he got injured, he was replaced by a guy who got cut from Miami, who at the time was winless.. Not only that, the reason why he got cut, was that the Dolphins rated Ryan Cook higher.

    We replaced McKinnie with Charlie Johnson who hasnt panned out either, LT is a key spot to a teams success and if the QB can not trust his blindside, he will likely throw bad, illadvised throws..

    Loadholts play has had me questioning his worth as a 2nd round pick.

    We cut a starter in Berrian and replaced him with Devon Aromashudo who because of one touchdown against the Chiefs had the whole Viking nation thinking he was just as good or better.

    Shiancoe has been declining a bit and we implenting Rudolph is this new offense has so far been a failure.

    McNabb sucked from the start and Ponder is a rookie, who while forgiven for that, will make rookie mistakes.

    Toby Gerhart scored his 2nd career touchdown vs the Falcons, that says enough.. 2 Touchdowns in 26 games isnt talent.

    We have a linebacker at Fullback who makes me wish we had Tahi back.

    Our replacement for Pat Williams hasnt made a play all season, mostly because he is on the sidelines for poor play. EJ Henderson and Chad Greenway are having bad seasons, Erin Henderson hustles but isnt a great player either.

    Asher Allen is currently our best cornerback, that says about enough.. And the safeties is what it is..

    And thats just our starters, go trough the roster and show me depth, we only have a few who is secured a roster spot next year because they are too good to cut..

    Im not on a Frazier bandwagon or anything like that, im just saying that this roster isnt as good as you make it.

    By the way, Bengals WR, AJ Green and Jerome Simpson, with Andre Candwell from Florida in the slot, their O-Line i really dont have a clue other than i think they drafted Andre Smith a few years ago however he has played poor and not lived up to his high draftpick.


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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by skum View Post
    We don't have the talent, at least not enough of it.. We might have some really good guys who are elite, but other than that, not so much..

    Herrera has been poor and when he got injured, he was replaced by a guy who got cut from Miami, who at the time was winless.. Not only that, the reason why he got cut, was that the Dolphins rated Ryan Cook higher.
    I will give you the injury stuff on Herrera but to say he has been poor when he has been on the field kindof misses what he actually does on the field.


    We replaced McKinnie with Charlie Johnson who hasnt panned out either, LT is a key spot to a teams success and if the QB can not trust his blindside, he will likely throw bad, illadvised throws..
    I'm not a CJ fan, but alot of our OL issues can be directly related to piss poor blocking by TE's and RB's, not to mention how our O-coord continues to make things easy for the defense to mess us up with 7 guys.

    Loadholts play has had me questioning his worth as a 2nd round pick.
    Agree, but like the whole blocking issues (OL, TE's, RB's) I blame the coaches. Load is talented he just needs to be coached.

    We cut a starter in Berrian and replaced him with Devon Aromashudo who because of one touchdown against the Chiefs had the whole Viking nation thinking he was just as good or better.
    Again, I will give you this one. For the life of me I can't figure out why you would take a guy like BB and only use him as a slot guy and then, when you finally have a QB who can throw to a 8 and a 9 route, you shitcan the guy that runs the 8 and 9 route.

    Well, I can figure it out. Its cause alot of things are being done on this staff to make fans happy, not what makes football sense. Most fans hated BB cause he wasn't very good as a inside reciever even though that isn't the type of reciever he was. Go figure huh.

    Shiancoe has been declining a bit and we implenting Rudolph is this new offense has so far been a failure.
    Shanc isn't declining. Just as it was when they first brought him over, he's being forced into more of a blockers role. Start running some 11 routes and you will see his production go back up. Again, coaching.

    McNabb sucked from the start and Ponder is a rookie, who while forgiven for that, will make rookie mistakes.
    Agree, but that doesn't mean that Ponder isn't talented.

    Toby Gerhart scored his 2nd career touchdown vs the Falcons, that says enough.. 2 Touchdowns in 26 games isnt talent.
    How many reps did he get prior to AD going down. He is no AD but he could start for alot of teams right now.

    We have a linebacker at Fullback who makes me wish we had Tahi back.
    I wouldn't go that far. Again, this staff said they didn't use a FB. Why oh why is there one on the roster now? Again, thats not a talent issue, thats a coaching debacle.

    Our replacement for Pat Williams hasnt made a play all season, mostly because he is on the sidelines for poor play.
    EJ and Chad are having pretty good seasons however, they look like shit, alot of the times because of Remi (aka Phat Pats replacement). Some yutz has been saying that for 3 years now.

    EJ Henderson and Chad Greenway are having bad seasons, Erin Henderson hustles but isnt a great player either.

    Asher Allen is currently our best cornerback, that says about enough.. And the safeties is what it is..
    See comments above.

    And thats just our starters, go trough the roster and show me depth, we only have a few who is secured a roster spot next year because they are too good to cut..
    Every team has the same kindof depth we have.

    Im not on a Frazier bandwagon or anything like that, im just saying that this roster isnt as good as you make it.
    Let me ask you a question.....Can you name a coach who you think could win with this team? Again, 16 of them are gone from the 2009 team 8 of which were starters. Alot of teams are winning with alot less talent.

    By the way, Bengals WR, AJ Green and Jerome Simpson, with Andre Candwell from Florida in the slot, their O-Line i really dont have a clue other than i think they drafted Andre Smith a few years ago however he has played poor and not lived up to his high draftpick.
    You forgot their TE. He is 3rd in receptions. Regardless, not everyday household names.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
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    Too early to talk firing Frazier. Next year is a different story but let's let that play itself out. I think we need to get rid of Musgrave and Pagec, they are in way over their heads. We need a proven D coordinator at the bare minimum.

    I think our biggest need is in the front office. Spielman has not lived up to the hype and it's time to cut our losses. We need a GM and some leadership at the front. Too many big decisions made by unproven leadership.
    I bet you could use a cool one huh Clark...Now you're talkin Eddie...

  8. #18
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    Wouldn't mind Fisher as head coach
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  9. #19
    smegmavike is offline Coach
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    This team is now hiring players off the street to start.
    The assumption that any player who is a starter has talent, is fundamentally flawed.
    Consider that some of those same starters wouldn't even make the roster of most NFL teams.

    At some point one has to open his eyes to the reality that recognition of player talent has been lacking in the mid to late rounds. That is where the core strength of a team is built. Not simply in it's stars.

    The coaching staff deserves it's share of the blame to be certain, but Leslie certainly has been placed in a pretty bad position.

    Rookie head coach, rookie offensive and defensive coordinators, Rookie QB who sat while an incompetent washed up vet was brought in due to no significant off season, new systems on all sides of the ball without a significant off season, and cap trouble allowing for very mediocre cast off free agent aquisitions.

    Didn't you expect a bad season?

    Frazier will probably keep his job for another year, but don't be surprised if people like Spielman and one, or both coordinaters are fired.

  10. #20
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    Maybe they should hire players off the street..Kurt Wanner was stacking boxes when he was hired
    Last edited by Lippythelion69; 12-01-2011 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Sp
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