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  1. #101
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "PurpleTide" wrote:

    With Bryant out we will run the ball to the left side to slow that right DE down, use three step drops, chip with a back, or slide a TE over to help. We cannot have Klieny over in Hicks pocket every play as it will limit us too much, but our play calling has been affected. Hicks is going to have to stand up on his own a couple times. Tarvaris will have the help he needs in the plays that are being called. I'm sure they've been practicing for this scenario already. I hope all the appeals haven't been used up, and McKinnie can get a reducement, however unlikely at this point. This just puts the pressure on Hicks and the rest of that offense to step it up a notch.
    Well, every play is a bit of a stretch but I think you know what I mean.
    As to the staff getting ready for this, you are spot on target.
    How many times did you see the TE come from the right side over to the left side with TJ rolling/bootlegging right?
    It was pretty prevalent if you ask me.

    My guess is we will still see the base package that we have all come to know and love:


    WR














    LT


    LG


    C

    RG

    RT













    WR

















    TE








    QB

































    FB



























    RB

    C will make (I hope he does anyways) the right line call/pre-snap read (OL blocking assignements) and shift the TE if necessary.

    QB will then make his reads and give his FB/RB blocking assignments and motion a WR if necessary to make sure his read is correct.

    Out of this formation they are not very predictable as they can run, pass and provide nice protection to the QB regardless of who is in at LT.
    That leaves cook all by himself. We all know how successful that has been for us.
    Lets not forget the FB's role here.
    He can help Cook out if necessary as well as get into the seam if he doesn't need help.

    Additionally, I am one of the guys of a mind that Cook will do alot better this year.
    He did better after Herrera settled in next to him and he got more reps/experience last year.
    The only time we saw something horrendous out of him this preseason was in the Steelers game and even Hutch had a gaff in that one facing the 1 or 2 DL sets they showed.

    Long story short, I am not concerned about Cook.
    I understand that. You have not been concerned about him since he was inserted as the starter. However, he has yet to show that he can hold his own against anything but mediocre talent one on one. Any time he plays against a DE that is better than marginal he cannot stand his ground. That does concern me.

  2. #102
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    What is the deal with trading suspended players?


    Last I heard Bills LT Jason Peters was still unhappy with his contract.
    Could we swap Pro-Bowl LTs?
    We'd probably have to throw in a draft pick due to McKinnie's status, but if it is possible, what do you guys think about that scenario?
    Rock out with your cock out!!!

  3. #103
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "jkjuggalo" wrote:
    What is the deal with trading suspended players?


    Last I heard Bills LT Jason Peters was still unhappy with his contract.
    Could we swap Pro-Bowl LTs?
    We'd probably have to throw in a draft pick due to McKinnie's status, but if it is possible, what do you guys think about that scenario?
    Cowboys traded for Pacman while he was suspended

  4. #104
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    nice post! i guess what fustrates me is we have a guy here that is possible the best run blocker in the league. Guess what? We're a rush first team( for the time being). Does Mac have a problem with speed rushers? Yes, but guess what so does almost every LT in the game. Heck Odgen was punished by Freeny a few years ago for 3 sacks in a game and he's a Hall of Famer.
    Mac's troubles in the passing game are overblown. I feel we have a habit as Vikes fans of looking a gift horse in the mouth. We are in love with the word potential. Too many of you speak as if Mac is easily replaceable. I guess you look at drafted LTs like Joe Thomas and Jake Long and think that it's easy to find a guy of that talent. Many of you fail to realize that for every Joe Thomas, there is a Robert Gallery. I would think that we as Vike fans would learn to STFU about quality players on our team after we tried to trade and "replace" Randy Moss. No?, No problem lets run a quality LT off the team so we can continue to struggle and then realize that it isn't the Oline but the play of our QB that caused issues.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    I think you need to back the truck up a minute with your rant/stance on ole Mac here.

    First, I don't think the majority of PPO think he is crap.
    Most of us are PO'd that he has all the god given talent in the world to be a dominant LT but his approach over the last few years (both on and off the field) hasn't been stellar.
    Just re-read this thred and try to spin the crap that's being spewed. How can you determine if his on the field effort has improved or not given the quality of play by the QB position. Wait, I forgot Tj's poor play was indicitive of the Oline woes and not his iniability to read a defense, make consistant NFL throws. The year before that, we had Brad " I can't throw passt 15" Johnson. I'm certain defensive COs didn't turn up the blitz since they didn't have to cover the deep third
    :.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Does he fit our scheme?
    Yes.
    Does he have issues?
    Yes.
    Can those issues be resolved?
    Off the field yes if he gets his big head out of his jiggly butt and conforms a bit.
    On the field, if he decides to work a bit harder (as we have seen this year) he can finally live up to his potential.
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Until then, no matter how gol 'darnit talented he is, he is not helping us for four fricken games.
    Until someone can tell me how that is helping the team, then I don't think it is wise to tell anyone to STFU when discussing a player that has not lived up to his potential and what he is getting paid especially when the discussion is centered on who will have to fill in for his dumb jiggly butt while he isn't on the field.
    How is he not helping us win games? I guess Ad's long TD runs were all the product of the other 4 linemen blocking but not Mac. While we are breaking down game film, lets ave yout ake a look at Hutch. Great guy off the feild but his pas block leaves a lot to be desired. He is average at best and is hidden being that he is a guard. Fnny Birk reall didn't develop a problem with block schemes before Hutch came. So if everyone is goign to become an Oline coach and pinpoint who needs work with his foot work, lets go down the entire line and replace them all.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Sure doesn't look like a Gift Horse to me, atleast for the next 4 games my friend.

    :
    Lets trade him for a crapy LB and a 18th pick that we can draft a replacement LT with and
    cut until we realize that he is less of a player than the guy we gave up. Like I said we have the best runblocking tackle in the game. He is working on his pass blocking and he is above average at it. We have sat and ridicule his pass blocking and
    effort so much, it's almost accepted that he is poor at it which is an untruth!
    Cox - After reading your responses to Marrdro as well as other posters on this thread, I just don't think you get it.
    No one here is saying McKinnie is lousy.
    We are saying he is an above average run blocker and a below average pass blocker.
    To me that is nothing more than an average lineman since he is not an all around OT.
    In addition he has plenty of off the field issues that has now landed him a 4 game suspension where he went back to a place to hit someone with a fucking pole.
    If you ask me that can be considered attempted pre-meditated murder.
    As a Canes fan I liked McKinnie as much or more than the next guy.
    However, he has never lived up to his potential in the NFL and he has off the field issues.
    I'm not sure what anyone's argument is out there in standing up for the guy.
    We have all stated he is not easily replaceable.
    However, in this time of his career he should be in his prime.
    Until he becomes the probowl calibur lineman we all thought he'd be my opinion will stand.
    Even if that happens it does not excuse his poor decision to beat the shit out of someone with a pole.

  5. #105
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "singersp" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:

    nice post! i guess what fustrates me is we have a guy here that is possible the best run blocker in the league. Guess what? We're a rush first team( for the time being). Does Mac have a problem with speed rushers? Yes, but guess what so does almost every LT in the game. Heck Odgen was punished by Freeny a few years ago for 3 sacks in a game and he's a Hall of Famer.
    Mac's troubles in the passing game are overblown. I feel we have a habit as Vikes fans of looking a gift horse in the mouth. We are in love with the word potential. Too many of you speak as if Mac is easily replaceable. I guess you look at drafted LTs like Joe Thomas and Jake Long and think that it's easy to find a guy of that talent. Many of you fail to realize that for every Joe Thomas, there is a Robert Gallery. I would think that we as Vike fans would learn to STFU about quality players on our team after we tried to trade and "replace" Randy Moss. No?, No problem lets run a quality LT off the team so we can continue to struggle and then realize that it isn't the Oline but the play of our QB that caused issues.
    Yes they do, but when McKinnie came here his "claim to fame" was that he didn't give up a single QB sack his entire college career.

    While I certainly expected that not to continue in the pros, I certainly expected him to do better against speed rushers than what he's done so far.
    Exactly.
    He just doesn't have very quick feet, it seems.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  6. #106
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    How is he not helping us win games? I guess Ad's long TD runs were all the product of the other 4 linemen blocking but not Mac. While we are breaking down game film, lets ave yout ake a look at Hutch. Great guy off the feild but his pas block leaves a lot to be desired. He is average at best and is hidden being that he is a guard. Fnny Birk reall didn't develop a problem with block schemes before Hutch came. So if everyone is goign to become an Oline coach and pinpoint who needs work with his foot work, lets go down the entire line and replace them all.
    You keep going back to what he does on the field which I agree with my friend but you keep missing my point.
    He isn't gonna be on the field for 4 games......


    Again, how is he helping win games if he isn't on the field.


    As to the rest of the OL play.
    I think you are asking the wrong person.
    Do a search with my name and Birk and you will see that I am very critical of him, as I am with every player that screws the pooch.

    In this case, Big Mac has screwed the pooch and isn't gonna be on the field (for four fricken games). How are you gonna break film down on him if there isn't any film?

    Lets trade him for a crapy LB and a 18th pick that we can draft a replacement LT with and
    cut until we realize that he is less of a player than the guy we gave up. Like I said we have the best runblocking tackle in the game. He is working on his pass blocking and he is above average at it. We have sat and ridicule his pass blocking and
    effort so much, it's almost accepted that he is poor at it which is an untruth!
    I will almost agree with you on his skill level and potential, however, because he hasn't lived up to that potential I really cant agree that there isn't room for criticism with respect to his pass blocking.

    If you were to really back yourself away from this issue that you have so patiently defended (which I laud you for by the way) you will also have to agree that he has had issues my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #107
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:

    nice post! i guess what fustrates me is we have a guy here that is possible the best run blocker in the league. Guess what? We're a rush first team( for the time being). Does Mac have a problem with speed rushers? Yes, but guess what so does almost every LT in the game. Heck Odgen was punished by Freeny a few years ago for 3 sacks in a game and he's a Hall of Famer.
    Mac's troubles in the passing game are overblown. I feel we have a habit as Vikes fans of looking a gift horse in the mouth. We are in love with the word potential. Too many of you speak as if Mac is easily replaceable. I guess you look at drafted LTs like Joe Thomas and Jake Long and think that it's easy to find a guy of that talent. Many of you fail to realize that for every Joe Thomas, there is a Robert Gallery. I would think that we as Vike fans would learn to STFU about quality players on our team after we tried to trade and "replace" Randy Moss. No?, No problem lets run a quality LT off the team so we can continue to struggle and then realize that it isn't the Oline but the play of our QB that caused issues.
    Yes they do, but when McKinnie came here his "claim to fame" was that he didn't give up a single QB sack his entire college career.

    While I certainly expected that not to continue in the pros, I certainly expected him to do better against speed rushers than what he's done so far.
    Exactly.
    He just doesn't have very quick feet, it seems.


    =Z=
    Thus the need for a pole, I reckon.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #108
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:

    nice post! i guess what fustrates me is we have a guy here that is possible the best run blocker in the league. Guess what? We're a rush first team( for the time being). Does Mac have a problem with speed rushers? Yes, but guess what so does almost every LT in the game. Heck Odgen was punished by Freeny a few years ago for 3 sacks in a game and he's a Hall of Famer.
    Mac's troubles in the passing game are overblown. I feel we have a habit as Vikes fans of looking a gift horse in the mouth. We are in love with the word potential. Too many of you speak as if Mac is easily replaceable. I guess you look at drafted LTs like Joe Thomas and Jake Long and think that it's easy to find a guy of that talent. Many of you fail to realize that for every Joe Thomas, there is a Robert Gallery. I would think that we as Vike fans would learn to STFU about quality players on our team after we tried to trade and "replace" Randy Moss. No?, No problem lets run a quality LT off the team so we can continue to struggle and then realize that it isn't the Oline but the play of our QB that caused issues.
    Yes they do, but when McKinnie came here his "claim to fame" was that he didn't give up a single QB sack his entire college career.

    While I certainly expected that not to continue in the pros, I certainly expected him to do better against speed rushers than what he's done so far.
    Exactly.
    He just doesn't have very quick feet, it seems.


    =Z=
    Thus the need for a pole, I reckon.
    Singer! That made me laugh hard as ish!

  9. #109
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    nice post! i guess what fustrates me is we have a guy here that is possible the best run blocker in the league. Guess what? We're a rush first team( for the time being). Does Mac have a problem with speed rushers? Yes, but guess what so does almost every LT in the game. Heck Odgen was punished by Freeny a few years ago for 3 sacks in a game and he's a Hall of Famer.
    Mac's troubles in the passing game are overblown. I feel we have a habit as Vikes fans of looking a gift horse in the mouth. We are in love with the word potential. Too many of you speak as if Mac is easily replaceable. I guess you look at drafted LTs like Joe Thomas and Jake Long and think that it's easy to find a guy of that talent. Many of you fail to realize that for every Joe Thomas, there is a Robert Gallery. I would think that we as Vike fans would learn to STFU about quality players on our team after we tried to trade and "replace" Randy Moss. No?, No problem lets run a quality LT off the team so we can continue to struggle and then realize that it isn't the Oline but the play of our QB that caused issues.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    I think you need to back the truck up a minute with your rant/stance on ole Mac here.

    First, I don't think the majority of PPO think he is crap.
    Most of us are PO'd that he has all the god given talent in the world to be a dominant LT but his approach over the last few years (both on and off the field) hasn't been stellar.
    Just re-read this thred and try to spin the crap that's being spewed. How can you determine if his on the field effort has improved or not given the quality of play by the QB position. Wait, I forgot Tj's poor play was indicitive of the Oline woes and not his iniability to read a defense, make consistant NFL throws. The year before that, we had Brad " I can't throw passt 15" Johnson. I'm certain defensive COs didn't turn up the blitz since they didn't have to cover the deep third
    :.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Does he fit our scheme?
    Yes.
    Does he have issues?
    Yes.
    Can those issues be resolved?
    Off the field yes if he gets his big head out of his jiggly butt and conforms a bit.
    On the field, if he decides to work a bit harder (as we have seen this year) he can finally live up to his potential.
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Until then, no matter how gol 'darnit talented he is, he is not helping us for four fricken games.
    Until someone can tell me how that is helping the team, then I don't think it is wise to tell anyone to STFU when discussing a player that has not lived up to his potential and what he is getting paid especially when the discussion is centered on who will have to fill in for his dumb jiggly butt while he isn't on the field.
    How is he not helping us win games? I guess Ad's long TD runs were all the product of the other 4 linemen blocking but not Mac. While we are breaking down game film, lets ave yout ake a look at Hutch. Great guy off the feild but his pas block leaves a lot to be desired. He is average at best and is hidden being that he is a guard. Fnny Birk reall didn't develop a problem with block schemes before Hutch came. So if everyone is goign to become an Oline coach and pinpoint who needs work with his foot work, lets go down the entire line and replace them all.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Sure doesn't look like a Gift Horse to me, atleast for the next 4 games my friend.

    :
    Lets trade him for a crapy LB and a 18th pick that we can draft a replacement LT with and
    cut until we realize that he is less of a player than the guy we gave up. Like I said we have the best runblocking tackle in the game. He is working on his pass blocking and he is above average at it. We have sat and ridicule his pass blocking and
    effort so much, it's almost accepted that he is poor at it which is an untruth!
    Cox - After reading your responses to Marrdro as well as other posters on this thread, I just don't think you get it.
    No one here is saying McKinnie is lousy.
    We are saying he is an above average run blocker and a below average pass blocker.
    To me that is nothing more than an average lineman since he is not an all around OT.
    In addition he has plenty of off the field issues that has now landed him a 4 game suspension where he went back to a place to hit someone with a fricken pole.
    If you ask me that can be considered attempted pre-meditated murder.
    As a Canes fan I liked McKinnie as much or more than the next guy.
    However, he has never lived up to his potential in the NFL and he has off the field issues.
    I'm not sure what anyone's argument is out there in standing up for the guy.
    We have all stated he is not easily replaceable.
    However, in this time of his career he should be in his prime.
    Until he becomes the probowl calibur lineman we all thought he'd be my opinion will stand.
    Even if that happens it does not excuse his poor decision to beat the pooh out of someone with a pole.
    That's the problem right there. MAC is not just and average run blocker. I believe him to be the best in the league. Unlike many of you I went back and reviewed a lot of Ad's big runs from last season, what I continued to see was MAC man handling his man to spring the initial alley. I have never excused his returning to the club. I am possibly the most likely on this board to "turn the other cheek", so under no circumstances should he have gone back into the club. I have always simply stated that I wanted to here his side of the story before I sentence him to death. Back to the issue at hand. I believe Mac is a pro bowl caliber lineman already. He gave up a couple of Sacks to Allen last year!! Gues what, so did a sh*t load of probowl linemen.
    There is a reason we went out an got him. There seems to be a huge disparity between the actual value of MAC and this boards value. Mac is not a below average pass blocker! [move][size=15pt]He gets beat but he was handcuffed last year with a QB that only completed throws futher than 10 yards 39% of the time.[/size][/move]
    Anyone with a limited knowledge of football could tell you that the oline isn't to blame... Lets take a look at what the oline had to deal with last year....

    1) Assisting Ryan " beat me like a rug' Cook - A TE was attached to his right side at all time and was not able to help MAC out should he have needed it. Not Cook's fault, as he was a C tossed into the fire.
    2) Time to gel, two new members of the line were added and it takes time to gel
    3) Exotic blitz packages
    4) A coach that was/is continualy outcoached and outadjusted
    5) A Qb that just was not ready to start last year. Period, fullstop! - When your Qb cannot routinly complete a 10 yard pass, your oline is going to suffer because defenses will pack the 10 yard box that he can make throws to and blitz everyone else. I know everyone will blame TW and the 3 drops he had but that will not excse Tjs poor completion percentage on medium throws.

    It's Ironic that Pro Bowl caliber players are blamed for the faults of our then below average players( TJ and WR corp). Blaming Birk and Mac seems to be the easy choice instead of realizing that if our QB played better, defense will not be able to throw the kitchen sink at our oline and then the Oline will be able to do what we ask them to do. This is the Randy situation all over again. We blamed Randy instead of addressing the real issue with the team and that set us back from being an elite team to being mentioned with the likes of the Cardnials.

  10. #110
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    Re: It's Official. McKinnie suspended 4 games.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    How is he not helping us win games? I guess Ad's long TD runs were all the product of the other 4 linemen blocking but not Mac. While we are breaking down game film, lets ave yout ake a look at Hutch. Great guy off the feild but his pas block leaves a lot to be desired. He is average at best and is hidden being that he is a guard. Fnny Birk reall didn't develop a problem with block schemes before Hutch came. So if everyone is goign to become an Oline coach and pinpoint who needs work with his foot work, lets go down the entire line and replace them all.
    You keep going back to what he does on the field which I agree with my friend but you keep missing my point.
    He isn't gonna be on the field for 4 games......


    Again, how is he helping win games if he isn't on the field.


    As to the rest of the OL play.
    I think you are asking the wrong person.
    Do a search with my name and Birk and you will see that I am very critical of him, as I am with every player that screws the pooch.

    In this case, Big Mac has screwed the pooch and isn't gonna be on the field (for four fricken games). How are you gonna break film down on him if there isn't any film?

    Lets trade him for a crapy LB and a 18th pick that we can draft a replacement LT with and
    cut until we realize that he is less of a player than the guy we gave up. Like I said we have the best runblocking tackle in the game. He is working on his pass blocking and he is above average at it. We have sat and ridicule his pass blocking and
    effort so much, it's almost accepted that he is poor at it which is an untruth!
    I will almost agree with you on his skill level and potential, however, because he hasn't lived up to that potential I really cant agree that there isn't room for criticism with respect to his pass blocking.

    If you were to really back yourself away from this issue that you have so patiently defended (which I laud you for by the way) you will also have to agree that he has had issues my friend.

    ;D
    Laud!? I haven't seen that word in quite some time. The reason, I think you are overly critical of Birk is because his issues are directly related to our QB play. If our QB is able to make the throws needed, Birk wouldn't be facing the fronts we see( 3 guys thru the playside gap). I think every player onthis team can improve. We are solid but not elite. However, when someone sas that mac is "below average" at pass blocking, I can't help but take their opinion seriously. The guy gets beat but guess what, All LT's do. Heck if the Eagles can keep Justice after he gave up 6 sacks to 1 player in 1 game, WTF are we arguing about. Almost every team's fanbase is clamoring for changes on the line. The grass is not greener on the other side. I keep Mac on the feild stuff seperate from his off the field issues. Just because he has gotten in trouble off the feild doesn't mean I can overstate his troubles on the field. Like I said, not directly to u Marr, find a replacement? I remember when people were talking about replacing him with Chase Johnson, who got cut, after Mac was suspended :

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