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  1. #121
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: It's Brad Childress vs. Mike Tice

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=49131.msg868127#msg868127 date=1227455777]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=49131.msg868114#msg868114 date=1227454065]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=49131.msg868103#msg868103 date=1227453011]
    Seriously, Tice vs The Chiller.



    Go away for a week and this is the first crapping post I am forced to read.
    Lord what has been going on here.

    Of course I didn't read the whole thread but I am sure I will find junk about play calling and his how much of a players coach he was.
    Not to mention crap about how he let us (the fans via the press) know everything that was going on with the team.

    I wonder if anyone mentioned things like

    a.
    Players drafted and thier role with the teams.
    3 of the first round picks that were made under Tice are still with the Vikings today.

    Williams, McKinnie & Udeze

    Injuries is what plagued James while he was here, not talent.

    And yes, we probably should have drafted Mike Williams over T-Will, WTF was the front office thinking?
    :
    Not a very good track record if that is all you can say about drafting.

    Long story short, because they sucked at drafting in that era is the prime reason this team is so gol 'darnit inconsistent.
    Much like the Tice System (could'nt win on the road/on gras) the other being the fact that the current staffs system (not scheme) for getting them ready each and every week has a fatal flaw in it.
    This is a list of Vikings players that were here under Tice that are still here;

    Birk
    McKinney
    Pat W
    Kevin W
    Sharper
    Winfield
    Heath Farwell
    E. J. Henderson
    Anthony Herrera
    Jimmy Kleinsasser
    Kenechi Udeze

    Most of them are a big part of this team today.

    Say what you want about the draft, but it is you that advocates the coach doesn't choose the players, the scouting team & FO does.

    With that said, what differences are there in the scouting team we have now vs. the scouting team we had then?

    You're not a big fan of Jackson's, but under which coach was he drafted?
    Who said I am not a fan of Jackson?
    I am a huge fan, problem is I am not a fan of grooming him on the field under center.

    As with most rookies I think they should learn from the sidelines while the vets play.
    Teams that rely on rookies to contribute as much as this team has done over the last 3 years are teams that failed to draft well over a long period of time.

    As to the drafting prowess of the staff in Tice's era, one only need to look at how many of them even made a roster and one would see that there were big issues with that staff.
    And it's pretty much the same staff of scouts, isn't it Marr?


    Hindsight after the fact is always 20/20.
    [/quote]
    I agree, the biggest fault/problem with the Tice era was the fact that the scouts didn't know what he was looking for because I do not think he or his staff had the abiliity to articulate what they wanted.

    If he would have been a bit better in that area, like the current regime, the scouts would have found guys that fit the scheme.

    Think of it this way, if I send wildwoman to get nails she has to figure out what kindof nails I want and might or might not bring the right one home.
    Now if I tell her I am gonna finally get around to putting up the trim work and want some finishing nails that increases her odds of getting the right nail now doesn't it.

    Same applies to the coaching staff and thier end of the year player appriasals with respect to wants/needs of the coaching staff.
    [/quote]

    That is pure speculation on your part with absolutely nothing to back it up.

    I can speculate too.

    In both of your scenarios involving WW, I speculate that she would still bring back these;


    [/quote]
    Whats speculation?

    The fact that the following happens in a NFL organizatin:

    a.
    The coaching staff at the end of the year gives the FO a assesment of each position and the players that make up that position?

    b.
    The FO then assesses the avenues to fix those positional deficiencies (FA, Draft)?

    Comeon my friend.
    It all comes back to the point that either the coaching staff is good at articulating its needs/wants or it good.
    Based on the track record (you said it, same scouts), that regime drafted pretty poorly.

    Call it speculation, however, I call it analysis.
    That coaching staff, much like they did when they prepped the team to play away from the dome, the did a bad job with respect to articulating their wants/needs and that equated to poor decisions by that organization.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #122
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: It's Brad Childress vs. Mike Tice

    "PackSux!" wrote:
    Bottom line is that they both are not the greatest of coaches, so does it really matter who is better?

    Mike Tice was more like the players and let them do what they wanted, and in the end it seemed the players took advantage of our coach.
    Although i really did like seeing Tice put the pads on and go practice with his team, that was pretty cool.

    Childress seems more like a coach and demands respect of the players, and he has the respect from the players.
    I have heard nothing but good come from the players mouth when asked about Coach Childress.


    We are a quarterback and Heath Farwell away from being a serious superbowl team under this coach.

    We were alot farther away then that under Tice.
    Tice lost his QB his last year and still ended with a 9-7 record. Brad came in an did a good job. I still wonder if Daunte would have still been here if not for the injury. Interesting to think about him healthy with the current team.

  3. #123
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: It's Brad Childress vs. Mike Tice

    "PackSux!" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "PackSux!" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "PackSux!" wrote:

    Funny thing about this discussion is that if the players wouldnt of made so many mistakes during our losses we would have more wins and nobody would be questioning Childress's coaching.
    Funny thing about this discussion is that if the players wouldn't have made so many mistakes during our losses under Tice, we would have more wins and Childress wouldn't even be our coach. Tice would still be & Moss would probably still be here.

    I take it you forgot that Red traded Moss when Tice was still our coach?
    So how would both of them still be here?
    Because IMO, if we were winning more, Red would have kept Moss here.

    The only downside to that is, Red might still be owner as well, but I think he was in it to make a quick buck & get out.
    You are probably right that Red wouldnt of traded Moss if we were winning.

    Red will always be one of the biggest douche bags in my book.

    I dont understand what red did at all.
    He traded Moss and then sold the team, wouldnt you think the team would be more valuable with Moss on it?

    That is where you are incorrect.

    Red sold the team when Moss was still on it & traded him away after the deal was made, but before the sale went through & was finalized.

    Wilf could have said "Hey, wait a minute here" & backed out or re-nogotiated the deal, but he didn't.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #124
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: It's Brad Childress vs. Mike Tice

    "SuperVikesfan" wrote:
    Sorry, but to me this debate is pointless. Tice was never better than mediocre. The only season we actually accomplished something was 04 when barley snuck into the playoffs with a 8-8 record. Mostly thanks to an amazing season from Culpepper. We had a lousy defense, and no HB at all. He had his moment beating Greenbay. Then losing to a good Philadelphia team.

    So fast foward to 2008. It's been too mediocre seasons, and now we are 5-5. Still have a good chance of winning the NFC North and making the playoffs. However, should we miss we should end up around 8-8. Which in the end would be mediocre.

    I will go out of line to say this. Should Childress make the playoffs, it will mean he did as good as Tice. You may say, well Tice had the worser of the teams. Well not really. Under Tice: Amazing passing attack. Non existent running game. Poor Defense. Under Childress: Anemic passing attack. Amazing running game. Good defense. What Tice lacked, Childress has. What Childress lacks, Tice had. Face it, the two are about the same.

    It's not like Tice is coaching the game today. It's not like coach Tice vs. coach Childress. To me, this Tice vs. Childress thing is pointless. That is just my opinion. I also know not all of you will share it.
    They sad part is that we should still have both guys who made the passing attack. Moss and Culpepper.

  5. #125
    PackSux!'s Avatar
    PackSux! is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: It's Brad Childress vs. Mike Tice

    "singersp" wrote:
    "PackSux!" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "PackSux!" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=PackSux! link=topic=49131.msg868131#msg868131 date=1227455995]

    Funny thing about this discussion is that if the players wouldnt of made so many mistakes during our losses we would have more wins and nobody would be questioning Childress's coaching.
    Funny thing about this discussion is that if the players wouldn't have made so many mistakes during our losses under Tice, we would have more wins and Childress wouldn't even be our coach. Tice would still be & Moss would probably still be here.

    I take it you forgot that Red traded Moss when Tice was still our coach?
    So how would both of them still be here?
    Because IMO, if we were winning more, Red would have kept Moss here.

    The only downside to that is, Red might still be owner as well, but I think he was in it to make a quick buck & get out.
    You are probably right that Red wouldnt of traded Moss if we were winning.

    Red will always be one of the biggest douche bags in my book.

    I dont understand what red did at all.
    He traded Moss and then sold the team, wouldnt you think the team would be more valuable with Moss on it?

    That is where you are incorrect.

    Red sold the team when Moss was still on it & traded him away after the deal was made, but before the sale went through & was finalized.

    Wilf could have said "Hey, wait a minute here" & backed out or re-nogotiated the deal, but he didn't.
    [/quote]

    Ok i got ya.
    I know the actual sale took a while because Fowler couldnt come up with the cash and that is when Ziggy came in.


    So really it was Fowler fault?

  6. #126
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: It's Brad Childress vs. Mike Tice

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=49131.msg868138#msg868138 date=1227456473]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=49131.msg868127#msg868127 date=1227455777]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=49131.msg868114#msg868114 date=1227454065]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=49131.msg868103#msg868103 date=1227453011]
    Seriously, Tice vs The Chiller.



    Go away for a week and this is the first crapping post I am forced to read.
    Lord what has been going on here.

    Of course I didn't read the whole thread but I am sure I will find junk about play calling and his how much of a players coach he was.
    Not to mention crap about how he let us (the fans via the press) know everything that was going on with the team.

    I wonder if anyone mentioned things like

    a.
    Players drafted and thier role with the teams.
    3 of the first round picks that were made under Tice are still with the Vikings today.

    Williams, McKinnie & Udeze

    Injuries is what plagued James while he was here, not talent.

    And yes, we probably should have drafted Mike Williams over T-Will, WTF was the front office thinking?
    :
    Not a very good track record if that is all you can say about drafting.

    Long story short, because they sucked at drafting in that era is the prime reason this team is so gol 'darnit inconsistent.
    Much like the Tice System (could'nt win on the road/on gras) the other being the fact that the current staffs system (not scheme) for getting them ready each and every week has a fatal flaw in it.
    This is a list of Vikings players that were here under Tice that are still here;

    Birk
    McKinney
    Pat W
    Kevin W
    Sharper
    Winfield
    Heath Farwell
    E. J. Henderson
    Anthony Herrera
    Jimmy Kleinsasser
    Kenechi Udeze

    Most of them are a big part of this team today.

    Say what you want about the draft, but it is you that advocates the coach doesn't choose the players, the scouting team & FO does.

    With that said, what differences are there in the scouting team we have now vs. the scouting team we had then?

    You're not a big fan of Jackson's, but under which coach was he drafted?
    Who said I am not a fan of Jackson?
    I am a huge fan, problem is I am not a fan of grooming him on the field under center.

    As with most rookies I think they should learn from the sidelines while the vets play.
    Teams that rely on rookies to contribute as much as this team has done over the last 3 years are teams that failed to draft well over a long period of time.

    As to the drafting prowess of the staff in Tice's era, one only need to look at how many of them even made a roster and one would see that there were big issues with that staff.
    And it's pretty much the same staff of scouts, isn't it Marr?


    Hindsight after the fact is always 20/20.
    [/quote]
    I agree, the biggest fault/problem with the Tice era was the fact that the scouts didn't know what he was looking for because I do not think he or his staff had the abiliity to articulate what they wanted.

    If he would have been a bit better in that area, like the current regime, the scouts would have found guys that fit the scheme.

    Think of it this way, if I send wildwoman to get nails she has to figure out what kindof nails I want and might or might not bring the right one home.
    Now if I tell her I am gonna finally get around to putting up the trim work and want some finishing nails that increases her odds of getting the right nail now doesn't it.

    Same applies to the coaching staff and thier end of the year player appriasals with respect to wants/needs of the coaching staff.
    [/quote]

    That is pure speculation on your part with absolutely nothing to back it up.

    I can speculate too.

    In both of your scenarios involving WW, I speculate that she would still bring back these;


    [/quote]
    Whats speculation?

    The fact that the following happens in a NFL organizatin:

    a.
    The coaching staff at the end of the year gives the FO a assesment of each position and the players that make up that position?

    b.
    The FO then assesses the avenues to fix those positional deficiencies (FA, Draft)?

    Comeon my friend.
    It all comes back to the point that either the coaching staff is good at articulating its needs/wants or it good.
    Based on the track record (you said it, same scouts), that regime drafted pretty poorly.

    Call it speculation, however, I call it analysis.
    That coaching staff, much like they did when they prepped the team to play away from the dome, the did a bad job with respect to articulating their wants/needs and that equated to poor decisions by that organization.
    [/quote]

    Well isn't it easy to analyze the draft 3-6 years after the fact? That is what you are doing. The draft has & always will be a crap shoot. You know that.

    Try analyzing it at the time of the draft when the scouts did. What did you have on the ole draft spread sheet those years?

    Who did you have the Vikings taking for WR in 2005 with their 1st pick? Williams? Williamson?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #127
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
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    43,935

    Re: It's Brad Childress vs. Mike Tice

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=49131.msg868140#msg868140 date=1227456693]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=49131.msg868138#msg868138 date=1227456473]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=49131.msg868127#msg868127 date=1227455777]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=49131.msg868114#msg868114 date=1227454065]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=49131.msg868103#msg868103 date=1227453011]
    Seriously, Tice vs The Chiller.



    Go away for a week and this is the first crapping post I am forced to read.
    Lord what has been going on here.

    Of course I didn't read the whole thread but I am sure I will find junk about play calling and his how much of a players coach he was.
    Not to mention crap about how he let us (the fans via the press) know everything that was going on with the team.

    I wonder if anyone mentioned things like

    a.
    Players drafted and thier role with the teams.
    3 of the first round picks that were made under Tice are still with the Vikings today.

    Williams, McKinnie & Udeze

    Injuries is what plagued James while he was here, not talent.

    And yes, we probably should have drafted Mike Williams over T-Will, WTF was the front office thinking?
    :
    Not a very good track record if that is all you can say about drafting.

    Long story short, because they sucked at drafting in that era is the prime reason this team is so gol 'darnit inconsistent.
    Much like the Tice System (could'nt win on the road/on gras) the other being the fact that the current staffs system (not scheme) for getting them ready each and every week has a fatal flaw in it.
    This is a list of Vikings players that were here under Tice that are still here;

    Birk
    McKinney
    Pat W
    Kevin W
    Sharper
    Winfield
    Heath Farwell
    E. J. Henderson
    Anthony Herrera
    Jimmy Kleinsasser
    Kenechi Udeze

    Most of them are a big part of this team today.

    Say what you want about the draft, but it is you that advocates the coach doesn't choose the players, the scouting team & FO does.

    With that said, what differences are there in the scouting team we have now vs. the scouting team we had then?

    You're not a big fan of Jackson's, but under which coach was he drafted?
    Who said I am not a fan of Jackson?
    I am a huge fan, problem is I am not a fan of grooming him on the field under center.

    As with most rookies I think they should learn from the sidelines while the vets play.
    Teams that rely on rookies to contribute as much as this team has done over the last 3 years are teams that failed to draft well over a long period of time.

    As to the drafting prowess of the staff in Tice's era, one only need to look at how many of them even made a roster and one would see that there were big issues with that staff.
    And it's pretty much the same staff of scouts, isn't it Marr?


    Hindsight after the fact is always 20/20.
    [/quote]
    I agree, the biggest fault/problem with the Tice era was the fact that the scouts didn't know what he was looking for because I do not think he or his staff had the abiliity to articulate what they wanted.

    If he would have been a bit better in that area, like the current regime, the scouts would have found guys that fit the scheme.

    Think of it this way, if I send wildwoman to get nails she has to figure out what kindof nails I want and might or might not bring the right one home.
    Now if I tell her I am gonna finally get around to putting up the trim work and want some finishing nails that increases her odds of getting the right nail now doesn't it.

    Same applies to the coaching staff and thier end of the year player appriasals with respect to wants/needs of the coaching staff.
    [/quote]

    That is pure speculation on your part with absolutely nothing to back it up.

    I can speculate too.

    In both of your scenarios involving WW, I speculate that she would still bring back these;


    [/quote]
    Whats speculation?

    The fact that the following happens in a NFL organizatin:

    a.
    The coaching staff at the end of the year gives the FO a assesment of each position and the players that make up that position?

    b.
    The FO then assesses the avenues to fix those positional deficiencies (FA, Draft)?

    Comeon my friend.
    It all comes back to the point that either the coaching staff is good at articulating its needs/wants or it good.
    Based on the track record (you said it, same scouts), that regime drafted pretty poorly.

    Call it speculation, however, I call it analysis.
    That coaching staff, much like they did when they prepped the team to play away from the dome, the did a bad job with respect to articulating their wants/needs and that equated to poor decisions by that organization.
    [/quote]

    Well isn't it easy to analyze the draft 3-6 years after the fact? That is what you are doing. The draft has & always will be a crap shoot. You know that.

    Try analyzing it at the time of the draft when the scouts did. What did you have on the ole draft spread sheet those years?

    Who did you have the Vikings taking for WR in 2005 with their 1st pick? Williams? Williamson?
    [/quote]
    The draft is a crap shoot for teams that suck at it.
    Funny thing, the teams that suck at it are always at the bottom of the Wins/Losses catagory each and every year.

    The ones that do well seem to always have a young kid that can step in when the Vet goes down and seem to be in the final game of the year or damn close to it each and every year.

    Doubt that, go look at the teams draft records that have been successfull in the FA era over the last 10 years or so.
    Very few of them suck at drafting.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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