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  1. #91
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    So you agree, he has the same say in things as the Chiller and Ricky boy then?

    In essence, they find a couple of Vets and a few Rooks that can fill a void, he tells them what they can spend, kindof thing.
    You do realize that you contradicted yourself in those two sentences there, don't you?

    "This player would be a good fit for us"

    and

    "This is what you can pay that player"

    is not "the same say in things".
    I am not saying they are one in the same. I am saying there are two decision points in this.......

    1. Who fits the scheme.

    2. Who can we afford.

    Spielman and Company narrow the first down for the coaches approval, the last is driven by one man, and one man only, the cat the "Ownership Group" trust to mind the bank.
    Silly me for taking your words as you typed them.

    And I think you are giving RobB more power than he has. He does not say (as you seem to think) "No, he's too expensive, you can't get him". He says "this is what we can offer", based upon his expertise. It is then up to the player to accept, reject or counter. That's called a negotiation.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  2. #92
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    So you agree, he has the same say in things as the Chiller and Ricky boy then?

    In essence, they find a couple of Vets and a few Rooks that can fill a void, he tells them what they can spend, kindof thing.
    You do realize that you contradicted yourself in those two sentences there, don't you?

    "This player would be a good fit for us"

    and

    "This is what you can pay that player"

    is not "the same say in things".
    I am not saying they are one in the same. I am saying there are two decision points in this.......

    1. Who fits the scheme.

    2. Who can we afford.

    Spielman and Company narrow the first down for the coaches approval, the last is driven by one man, and one man only, the cat the "Ownership Group" trust to mind the bank.
    Silly me for taking your words as you typed them.

    And I think you are giving RobB more power than he has. He does not say (as you seem to think) "No, he's too expensive, you can't get him". He says "this is what we can offer", based upon his expertise. It is then up to the player to accept, reject or counter. That's called a negotiation.

    =Z=
    So how does that fit into a scenario were the coaches want to go after a cat like McNabb.

    Keeping in mind that a offer hasn't even been discussed at that point.

    The way I see that happening is the staff sits down and goes over what they believe would be the going price and Bryz then gives his input, which might mean they don't even go in that direction but opt to go with a rook instead.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #93
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    So you agree, he has the same say in things as the Chiller and Ricky boy then?

    In essence, they find a couple of Vets and a few Rooks that can fill a void, he tells them what they can spend, kindof thing.
    You do realize that you contradicted yourself in those two sentences there, don't you?

    "This player would be a good fit for us"

    and

    "This is what you can pay that player"

    is not "the same say in things".
    I am not saying they are one in the same. I am saying there are two decision points in this.......

    1. Who fits the scheme.

    2. Who can we afford.

    Spielman and Company narrow the first down for the coaches approval, the last is driven by one man, and one man only, the cat the "Ownership Group" trust to mind the bank.
    Silly me for taking your words as you typed them.

    And I think you are giving RobB more power than he has. He does not say (as you seem to think) "No, he's too expensive, you can't get him". He says "this is what we can offer", based upon his expertise. It is then up to the player to accept, reject or counter. That's called a negotiation.

    =Z=
    So how does that fit into a scenario were the coaches want to go after a cat like McNabb.

    Keeping in mind that a offer hasn't even been discussed at that point.

    The way I see that happening is the staff sits down and goes over what they believe would be the going price and Bryz then gives his input, which might mean they don't even go in that direction but opt to go with a rook instead.
    or its possible that CHilly (Yes Chilly) has worked with McNabb for how many years, knows he's just about as durable as TJ, older and on the decline. Thought that draft pick would be better used elsewhere and opted to stick with the youth. As well, there's the chance that McNabb, being on the last year of his contract will be released at the end of the year and available for essentially free (well, jsut money, no picks), since he figures Favre will be back this season.

    I doubt McNabb was so expensive we couldn't afford him. I'm willing to bet, they never spoke with Rob for more than 20 seconds on the matter.

  4. #94
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Silly me for taking your words as you typed them.

    And I think you are giving RobB more power than he has. He does not say (as you seem to think) "No, he's too expensive, you can't get him". He says "this is what we can offer", based upon his expertise. It is then up to the player to accept, reject or counter. That's called a negotiation.
    So how does that fit into a scenario were the coaches want to go after a cat like McNabb.

    Keeping in mind that a offer hasn't even been discussed at that point.

    The way I see that happening is the staff sits down and goes over what they believe would be the going price and Bryz then gives his input, which might mean they don't even go in that direction but opt to go with a rook instead.
    Since McNabb was already under contract, my assumption would be something like this:

    Those Who Decide What Players to get: "Hey, we might be able to trade for Donovan McNabb. It would cost us a (name-round) draft choice and whatever his current cap impact. Let's check with RobB."

    RobB: "Well, we can/cannot afford that current contract."

    Those Who Decide What Players to get: "Okay, thanks for the input. Zygi?"

    Zygi: "If you guys think he can make us win, Rob will find a way."

    RobB: "Yes, boss."

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  5. #95
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    So you agree, he has the same say in things as the Chiller and Ricky boy then?

    In essence, they find a couple of Vets and a few Rooks that can fill a void, he tells them what they can spend, kindof thing.
    You do realize that you contradicted yourself in those two sentences there, don't you?

    "This player would be a good fit for us"

    and

    "This is what you can pay that player"

    is not "the same say in things".
    I am not saying they are one in the same. I am saying there are two decision points in this.......

    1. Who fits the scheme.

    2. Who can we afford.

    Spielman and Company narrow the first down for the coaches approval, the last is driven by one man, and one man only, the cat the "Ownership Group" trust to mind the bank.
    Silly me for taking your words as you typed them.

    And I think you are giving RobB more power than he has. He does not say (as you seem to think) "No, he's too expensive, you can't get him". He says "this is what we can offer", based upon his expertise. It is then up to the player to accept, reject or counter. That's called a negotiation.

    =Z=
    So how does that fit into a scenario were the coaches want to go after a cat like McNabb.

    Keeping in mind that a offer hasn't even been discussed at that point.

    The way I see that happening is the staff sits down and goes over what they believe would be the going price and Bryz then gives his input, which might mean they don't even go in that direction but opt to go with a rook instead.
    or its possible that CHilly (Yes Chilly) has worked with McNabb for how many years, knows he's just about as durable as TJ, older and on the decline. Thought that draft pick would be better used elsewhere and opted to stick with the youth. As well, there's the chance that McNabb, being on the last year of his contract will be released at the end of the year and available for essentially free (well, jsut money, no picks), since he figures Favre will be back this season.

    I doubt McNabb was so expensive we couldn't afford him. I'm willing to bet, they never spoke with Rob for more than 20 seconds on the matter.
    You could be right, at least when it comes to McNabb, but insert someone else if you would like, and Bryzcheapski's role will still come into play, if nothing more than 20 seconds.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #96
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Silly me for taking your words as you typed them.

    And I think you are giving RobB more power than he has. He does not say (as you seem to think) "No, he's too expensive, you can't get him". He says "this is what we can offer", based upon his expertise. It is then up to the player to accept, reject or counter. That's called a negotiation.
    So how does that fit into a scenario were the coaches want to go after a cat like McNabb.

    Keeping in mind that a offer hasn't even been discussed at that point.

    The way I see that happening is the staff sits down and goes over what they believe would be the going price and Bryz then gives his input, which might mean they don't even go in that direction but opt to go with a rook instead.
    Since McNabb was already under contract, my assumption would be something like this:

    Those Who Decide What Players to get: "Hey, we might be able to trade for Donovan McNabb. It would cost us a (name-round) draft choice and whatever his current cap impact. Let's check with RobB."

    RobB: "Well, we can/cannot afford that current contract."

    Those Who Decide What Players to get: "Okay, thanks for the input. Zygi?"

    Zygi: "If you guys think he can make us win, Rob will find a way."

    RobB: "Yes, boss."

    =Z=
    But see, you changed the scenario. Now you've gone down the Rabbit hole (see the fallout from the Foley shouting match) were if the TRIAD (not Chiller/Ricky combo) can't come to an agreement, then the fourth leg of the TRIAD comes into play.

    Lets not go there cause then Caine comes in with his own spin on a owner making football decisions, and keep in were just the TRIAD is working together as one.

    Again, with equal say.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #97
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    So you agree, he has the same say in things as the Chiller and Ricky boy then?

    In essence, they find a couple of Vets and a few Rooks that can fill a void, he tells them what they can spend, kindof thing.
    You do realize that you contradicted yourself in those two sentences there, don't you?

    "This player would be a good fit for us"

    and

    "This is what you can pay that player"

    is not "the same say in things".
    I am not saying they are one in the same. I am saying there are two decision points in this.......

    1. Who fits the scheme.

    2. Who can we afford.

    Spielman and Company narrow the first down for the coaches approval, the last is driven by one man, and one man only, the cat the "Ownership Group" trust to mind the bank.
    Silly me for taking your words as you typed them.

    And I think you are giving RobB more power than he has. He does not say (as you seem to think) "No, he's too expensive, you can't get him". He says "this is what we can offer", based upon his expertise. It is then up to the player to accept, reject or counter. That's called a negotiation.

    =Z=
    So how does that fit into a scenario were the coaches want to go after a cat like McNabb.

    Keeping in mind that a offer hasn't even been discussed at that point.

    The way I see that happening is the staff sits down and goes over what they believe would be the going price and Bryz then gives his input, which might mean they don't even go in that direction but opt to go with a rook instead.
    or its possible that CHilly (Yes Chilly) has worked with McNabb for how many years, knows he's just about as durable as TJ, older and on the decline. Thought that draft pick would be better used elsewhere and opted to stick with the youth. As well, there's the chance that McNabb, being on the last year of his contract will be released at the end of the year and available for essentially free (well, jsut money, no picks), since he figures Favre will be back this season.

    I doubt McNabb was so expensive we couldn't afford him. I'm willing to bet, they never spoke with Rob for more than 20 seconds on the matter.
    You could be right, at least when it comes to McNabb, but insert someone else if you would like, and Bryzcheapski's role will still come into play, if nothing more than 20 seconds.
    this is the last time I will say it, becasue I"m not even sure what youa re trying to [strike]argue[/strike] discuss anymore. CHilly/Rick do NOT just sign a guy, then the next morning go see rob and say "Hey, hows it going, by the way, we've got a 23 mil contract you have to work in for the next 3 years. Later"

    Chilly/Rick will make their decision, See what they have to work with by asking Rob and then decide if its worth it.

    I don't know if I can be any clearer.

  8. #98
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Silly me for taking your words as you typed them.

    And I think you are giving RobB more power than he has. He does not say (as you seem to think) "No, he's too expensive, you can't get him". He says "this is what we can offer", based upon his expertise. It is then up to the player to accept, reject or counter. That's called a negotiation.
    So how does that fit into a scenario were the coaches want to go after a cat like McNabb.

    Keeping in mind that a offer hasn't even been discussed at that point.

    The way I see that happening is the staff sits down and goes over what they believe would be the going price and Bryz then gives his input, which might mean they don't even go in that direction but opt to go with a rook instead.
    Since McNabb was already under contract, my assumption would be something like this:

    Those Who Decide What Players to get: "Hey, we might be able to trade for Donovan McNabb. It would cost us a (name-round) draft choice and whatever his current cap impact. Let's check with RobB."

    RobB: "Well, we can/cannot afford that current contract."

    Those Who Decide What Players to get: "Okay, thanks for the input. Zygi?"

    Zygi: "If you guys think he can make us win, Rob will find a way."

    RobB: "Yes, boss."

    =Z=
    But see, you changed the scenario. Now you've gone down the Rabbit hole (see the fallout from the Foley shouting match) were if the TRIAD (not Chiller/Ricky combo) can't come to an agreement, then the fourth leg of the TRIAD comes into play.

    Lets not go there cause then Caine comes in with his own spin on a owner making football decisions, and keep in were just the TRIAD is working together as one.

    Again, with equal say.
    That's the problem - there's no equal say.

    Those Who Decide Which Players to Get have say.

    RobB has no say. He just sets an affordability number.

    The Player and His Agent have say (do I/we accept?)

    Zygi has say. It my team.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  9. #99
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Inside the playbook: the Tampa 2

    Marrdro wrote:
    Nope, what I've said is this team CAN carry a QB and the evidence behind it is that the Noodle had his best year of his whole career last year.

    What I've repeatedly asked in conjuction to that statement was for someone to explain away the great season if that wasn't the case with the name of the "I'm gonna be better than ever" pill he took that made him that good.

    To date, no one has provided the name of that pill or the company who made it.
    Not a majic Pill theory here, but, as a long time Favre follower I think he was playing a lot better than most give him credit for the last two years.

    Take out the last 6 games of 2008 (basically when Favre was supposed to have injured his shoulder) and his Passer rating was around 95 for the two years prior to the Vikings.

    Favre is still a very good QB and putting him on a team with a great Defense that gives him the ball back frequentley in the early stages of games and a Coach who probably takes the edge off of that "gunslinger" mentality is all it took to make him look that much better. The interception total assuming a 17 vs 7 quantity accounts for about 8 rating points by itself.


    Just for Marrdro...

    What else would you expect from the "Noodle" QB who had the highest rating when the ball was in the air for 20 yards or more last year? and the highest for 30 yards or more? and the highest for 40 yards or more? (amongst top 12 QBs)

    I have been waiting for an excuse to throw that one in there for a while... Surprised me too when looking at the top 12 QBs last year, it kind of popped out and thought you would like to know.

    Being an optimist I hope Berrian makes those downfield passes even more prolific next year with more TDs. Also, I hope that his cleaned-up ankle helps him step into his throws better. He never seemed to look "like his old self" with his footwork when stepping into those long passes.
    None

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