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  1. #21
    jkjuggalo's Avatar
    jkjuggalo is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    I think you can assume I am advocating TJack over Gus by reading my posts in like 4 other threads.

    And my reason for this has always been the same:
    Gus has had a long career and has proven to be average.
    We plugged him into our offense, and guess what?
    He is playing like an average QB.
    His completion percentage hovers around 50%, he throws the same amount of INTs as he does TDs, and he does average to below average on converting 3rd downs.

    Now TJ has started one season's worth of games, and has been inconsistent like any other young QB.
    He was coming off a preseason injury and after two games against tough opponents the fans crucify him and the coach gets scared and makes a move that might save his job.
    TJ showed lots of promise late last year, granted he wilted on the big stage, but that happens to a lot of young QBs early in their careers.
    TJ is young and has potential to improve, Gus has passed his prime and tapped his potential.
    Gus' entire career, especially the last 4 games have shown that he is not the man to take us deep into the playoffs.
    If Jackson can play the "easy" part of our schedule, and improve like he did for a stretch last season, there is a chance our offense could be more productive.

    OK, tear it apart boys.
    Rock out with your cock out!!!

  2. #22
    midgensa's Avatar
    midgensa is offline Jersey Retired Free Kick Specialist 3 Champion
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    There is only ONE stat that matters right now folks: Tarvaris Jackson, 0-2; Gus Frerotte, 3-1.
    That is that. Look, I was a T-Jack supporter, but right now Gus is the guy and there is no reason to go back to T-Jack. For those that want JDB in there, get a frickin clue ... the guy can't play at the NFL level and likely never will be able to. In the time we got to see him he never gave us any reason to think otherwise.
    Personally, I think T-Jack has so many great QB tools with the elusiveness and big arm, but he clearly was struggling with his confidence and (most importantly) gaining the confidence of his teammates.
    I know it was the Lions and I know the Saints game was ugly, but T-Jack LOSES both of those games right now. That is just where he is in his game. He showed far too much timidness this season and a lack of making quick decisions. Gus played integral parts in game-winning/tying drives in both of these games. Gus is the man.

  3. #23
    ragz's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "jkjuggalo" wrote:
    I think you can assume I am advocating TJack over Gus by reading my posts in like 4 other threads.

    And my reason for this has always been the same:
    Gus has had a long career and has proven to be average.
    We plugged him into our offense, and guess what?
    He is playing like an average QB.
    His completion percentage hovers around 50%, he throws the same amount of INTs as he does TDs, and he does average to below average on converting 3rd downs.

    Now TJ has started one season's worth of games, and has been inconsistent like any other young QB.
    He was coming off a preseason injury and after two games against tough opponents the fans crucify him and the coach gets scared and makes a move that might save his job.
    TJ showed lots of promise late last year, granted he wilted on the big stage, but that happens to a lot of young QBs early in their careers.
    TJ is young and has potential to improve, Gus has passed his prime and tapped his potential.
    Gus' entire career, especially the last 4 games have shown that he is not the man to take us deep into the playoffs.
    If Jackson can play the "easy" part of our schedule, and improve like he did for a stretch last season, there is a chance our offense could be more productive.

    OK, tear it apart boys.
    jk its useless.
    everyone knows already with certainty that jackson blows.
    i dont know how they came to that conclusion but apparently 16 games is enough to prove yourself in the nfl.
    especially when in a childress offense.
    it totally reflects what kinda player you are cuz he is so awesome that if you fail you must be the problem.
    and that depends on how you define fail.
    like you saw with a guy like joe flacco you have to live with the good and the bad of a young qb.
    childress was willing to start jackson but never appeared to me that he was willing to let him sink or swim, thats why we saw such boring, pedestrian numbers every week.
    if you aren't willing too then you shouldnt let the kid play.
    you know what i mean?

    and midgensa come on.
    there is no way you can make a statement like we would lose these 3 games if jackson is qbing.
    in our 3 wins we have a safety, a blocked fg for a td, and a fumble recovery for a td.
    all pretty much the biggest reasons why we won considering all of the games were greatly impacted by them.
    fact is, in all 3 losses, 2 of which jackson played, we didnt get those things.
    so lets be honest and point out the real reasons for our wins and our losses, cuz the offense has been jsut about the same in the points area.
    "self improvement's masturbation.
    now self destruction" that's enlightenment

  4. #24
    Articnv's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    it dosnt matter who the qb is
    childress and bevell will call the same 3 basic pl;ays run off tackle, run right or
    pas short qwith a fwew excpetions.
    No one can sucede in that

  5. #25
    jkjuggalo's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "midgensa" wrote:
    There is only ONE stat that matters right now folks: Tarvaris Jackson, 0-2; Gus Frerotte, 3-1.
    That is that. Look, I was a T-Jack supporter, but right now Gus is the guy and there is no reason to go back to T-Jack. For those that want JDB in there, get a frickin clue ... the guy can't play at the NFL level and likely never will be able to. In the time we got to see him he never gave us any reason to think otherwise.
    Personally, I think T-Jack has so many great QB tools with the elusiveness and big arm, but he clearly was struggling with his confidence and (most importantly) gaining the confidence of his teammates.
    I know it was the Lions and I know the Saints game was ugly, but T-Jack LOSES both of those games right now. That is just where he is in his game. He showed far too much timidness this season and a lack of making quick decisions. Gus played integral parts in game-winning/tying drives in both of these games. Gus is the man.
    You are just falling for the Childress propaganda like everyone else.
    Childress is like the GW Bush of football, nothing is ever his fault and everything he touches turns to shit.
    Just last week Childress publicly threw our terrific punter under the bus, when he knows damn well that his offense and bad game management is the reason we lose games.
    Just two games into the season he puts in a journeyman QB because his protege QB isn't being aggressive enough.
    Of course this is after he spent the entire year last year (and this offseason) preaching "Take care of the football!"
    So when it comes to an early QB switch, I guess you have to pardon me for doubting the instincts of this football mastermind this time.
    Rock out with your cock out!!!

  6. #26
    midgensa's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "ragz" wrote:
    "jkjuggalo" wrote:
    I think you can assume I am advocating TJack over Gus by reading my posts in like 4 other threads.

    And my reason for this has always been the same:
    Gus has had a long career and has proven to be average.
    We plugged him into our offense, and guess what?
    He is playing like an average QB.
    His completion percentage hovers around 50%, he throws the same amount of INTs as he does TDs, and he does average to below average on converting 3rd downs.

    Now TJ has started one season's worth of games, and has been inconsistent like any other young QB.
    He was coming off a preseason injury and after two games against tough opponents the fans crucify him and the coach gets scared and makes a move that might save his job.
    TJ showed lots of promise late last year, granted he wilted on the big stage, but that happens to a lot of young QBs early in their careers.
    TJ is young and has potential to improve, Gus has passed his prime and tapped his potential.
    Gus' entire career, especially the last 4 games have shown that he is not the man to take us deep into the playoffs.
    If Jackson can play the "easy" part of our schedule, and improve like he did for a stretch last season, there is a chance our offense could be more productive.

    OK, tear it apart boys.
    jk its useless.
    everyone knows already with certainty that jackson blows.
    i dont know how they came to that conclusion but apparently 16 games is enough to prove yourself in the nfl.
    especially when in a childress offense.
    it totally reflects what kinda player you are cuz he is so awesome that if you fail you must be the problem.
    and that depends on how you define fail.
    like you saw with a guy like joe flacco you have to live with the good and the bad of a young qb.
    childress was willing to start jackson but never appeared to me that he was willing to let him sink or swim, thats why we saw such boring, pedestrian numbers every week.
    if you aren't willing too then you shouldnt let the kid play.
    you know what i mean?

    and midgensa come on.
    there is no way you can make a statement like we would lose these 3 games if jackson is qbing.
    in our 3 wins we have a safety, a blocked fg for a td, and a fumble recovery for a td.
    all pretty much the biggest reasons why we won considering all of the games were greatly impacted by them.
    fact is, in all 3 losses, 2 of which jackson played, we didnt get those things.
    so lets be honest and point out the real reasons for our wins and our losses, cuz the offense has been jsut about the same in the points area.
    First off ... I did not say all three wins ... I said two. Second off ... yes we got big plays in those two games, but we still had to drive late in BOTH of those games for a field goal and there is absolutely NO reason to believe that T-Jack is able to pull off a late drive.
    Obviously we do not win any of those games without those big plays, I don't get what makes you think I think otherwise. I did not state that Gus was the end all be all in why we won, but he did get us in field goal range TWICE to WIN games.
    This is a (yes another) Gus vs. T-Jack thread and nothing more. To say you would prefer T-Jack in there makes little sense. The ONLY reasoning for having T-Jack in there is to mail in this season and build for next. I simply refuse to do that. There is NO statistical reason to have T-Jack in there what-so-ever. He looked terrible in his two starts.
    I was not huge on the QB change personally, but to not admit that we are better off right now seems like just looking for stuff to complain about. Were the Saints and Lions wins ugly. Damn straight. Am I extremely disappointed in Childress and Bevell. Damn straight. Do I think our defense is having to bail us out WAY to often. Damn straight.
    But in a T-Jack vs. Gus thread. There is really only one thing that matters. Gus gives us the best change to win right now, no matter how terrible our coaches are.

  7. #27
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "tclawmen" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "tclawmen" wrote:
    With our inablility to put the ball into the endzone with any consistency there seems to be a fair # of people who are saying that we should put Gus on the bench and bring back Jackson to lead (???) the team.
    Has Tjack done something in the last couple of weeks to warrant any more confidence in him than we had when he was pulled out? Is'nt he the same Q/B that averages about 140 yards a game and takes just as many sacks due to his indecision. At least with Gus there is some ability to find the open reciever and make plays down the field but if you think Tjack is the guy, than make your case.
    LMAO! Where did you pull your sack stats from? Never mind, we know.

    Number of times sacked;

    Jackson: 5

    Frerotte: 11

    Here you go, I actually took the time to look up the numbers.

    In Jacksons 2 starts this year he was 30 for 59 for 308 yards (154 yard average with 5 sacks and that is 1 sack for every 11.8 attempts)

    In Gus's 4 starts this year he is 78 for 140 for 988 yards (247 yard average with 13 sacks and that is 1 sack for every 10.7 attempts)

    I believe those stats qualify what I said in my original post and that is they get the same # of sacks (on a % based on the number of attempts.

    Do you feel better now?

    LOL, you are skewing the stats. In Jackson's first two starts, he was sacked 3 times, not 5. Ergo he was sacked 1 time in every 20 attempts.

    1 in every 20 attempts does not qualify as "close" to 1 in every 10.7.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #28
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    Contrary to popular opinion, the playbook has not been opened up.
    Frerrote is just finding open receivers more consistently than TJack did.
    Sadly, he is the Vikings best option right now.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  9. #29
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "Prophet" wrote:
    Contrary to popular opinion, the playbook has not been opened up.
    Frerrote is just finding open receivers more consistently than TJack did.
    Sadly, he is the Vikings best option right now.
    Yes it has. I watched the Chiller flip his card over & he had an expression on his face that screamed, "OMG! I didn't realize this card had a back side."

    It was hard for Jackson to find open receivers when in the first two games, there were few that got open & in many plays the WR's never left the LOS.

    Yesterday, there were receivers that were wide open on many of his throws.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #30
    ConnecticutViking's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    In my opinion it's not the players, it's the offensive plan of attack.
    Poor coaching

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