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  1. #11
    Big C is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    Yeah, this offense will suck as long as chilli/bevell are running it. We just pull out an entirely different playbook once we hit the 35 yard line. Even more frustrating is the players not playing cohesively. How many good red zone plays have we squandered with penalties and fumbles? How many runs have been stuffed in the red-zone because someone on the O-line or the FB (Tahi... GRRR!!) whifs on a block?

    And what the hell is up with calling @#%&ing 30+ yard go routes on 3rd and short? We would have thrown the game last week on that play if not for the pass interference call (which was pretty blatant). I would think that shorter comeback, in, out and slant routes have a MUCH better chance of being completed than go routes.

    This is probably one of the most frustrating seasons I am enduring with the Vikings. We have such a talented team, an owner willing to open up the pocketbook but have a head coach who thinks he is an offensive genius who is too stubborn to say the system sucks, and bring someone in to fix it. Having a dedicated Defensive Coordinator(s) has worked miracles but he is too stubborn to do the same thing for the offense.

    AARRRRGHHH!!!!
    Halo 4. Start another fight.

  2. #12
    ragz's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "Big" wrote:
    Yeah, this offense will suck as long as chilli/bevell are running it. We just pull out an entirely different playbook once we hit the 35 yard line. Even more frustrating is the players not playing cohesively. How many good red zone plays have we squandered with penalties and fumbles? How many runs have been stuffed in the red-zone because someone on the O-line or the FB (Tahi... GRRR!!) whifs on a block?

    And what the hell is up with calling @#%&ing 30+ yard go routes on 3rd and short? We would have thrown the game last week on that play if not for the pass interference call (which was pretty blatant). I would think that shorter comeback, in, out and slant routes have a MUCH better chance of being completed than go routes.

    This is probably one of the most frustrating seasons I am enduring with the Vikings. We have such a talented team, an owner willing to open up the pocketbook but have a head coach who thinks he is an offensive genius who is too stubborn to say the system sucks, and bring someone in to fix it. Having a dedicated Defensive Coordinator(s) has worked miracles but he is too stubborn to do the same thing for the offense.

    AARRRRGHHH!!!!
    its so true about the 3rd and shorts, but jackson used to do the same things and get shit for it.
    i was thinking the same things.
    and if you think about it, what was the pattern berrian went 86 yards for, an underneath route that worked cuz the blitz was coming and we got it out quick to a guy who probably adjusted his route based on the blitz.
    i mean i'm glad they got it to work, but you should be able to do that a bit more.
    i have a hard time believing berrian and wades long catch were the only plays that were there today.
    i mean both guys were wide open.
    it was probably there all day.
    "self improvement's masturbation.
    now self destruction" that's enlightenment

  3. #13
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    Bad idea, our coaching staff has very little confidence in Tarvaris Jackson and that was on display quite early in the season. The playbook was more vanilla than it is today. At least with Gus they opended things up a bit and he's done way better than Jackson would given the current sitation.

    Coming into the season I felt Tarvaris had a really good chance to suceed with everything around him, I thought the Oline would be way better and Sidney Rice would have a few TD's by now. Whats happened though is inconsistent Offensive Line play which really tells the rest of the story. Tarvaris Jackson with Gus Frerotte type pressure on his back is a disaster in the making.
    I don't know if I would go so far as to say that.

    Would Gus be doing better than Jackson if the playbook had not been opened up?

    Would Jackson have done better than Gus had he had the same open playbook Gus has now?

    We really don't know the anser to that one & with the opening up of the playbook, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison between the first 3 games & the last 3.

    What Frerotte does bring to the table is his 15 years experience, but his lack of mobility has also proven to be costly as well.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #14
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    He is third best qb in the division...
    We're bringing purple back.

  5. #15
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "tclawmen" wrote:
    With our inablility to put the ball into the endzone with any consistency there seems to be a fair # of people who are saying that we should put Gus on the bench and bring back Jackson to lead (???) the team.
    Has Tjack done something in the last couple of weeks to warrant any more confidence in him than we had when he was pulled out? Is'nt he the same Q/B that averages about 140 yards a game and takes just as many sacks due to his indecision. At least with Gus there is some ability to find the open reciever and make plays down the field but if you think Tjack is the guy, than make your case.
    LMAO! Where did you pull your sack stats from? Never mind, we know.

    Number of times sacked;

    Jackson: 5

    Frerotte: 11

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #16
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    Bad idea, our coaching staff has very little confidence in Tarvaris Jackson and that was on display quite early in the season. The playbook was more vanilla than it is today. At least with Gus they opended things up a bit and he's done way better than Jackson would given the current sitation.

    Coming into the season I felt Tarvaris had a really good chance to suceed with everything around him, I thought the Oline would be way better and Sidney Rice would have a few TD's by now. Whats happened though is inconsistent Offensive Line play which really tells the rest of the story. Tarvaris Jackson with Gus Frerotte type pressure on his back is a disaster in the making.
    I don't know if I would go so far as to say that.

    Would Gus be doing better than Jackson if the playbook had not been opened up?

    Would Jackson have done better than Gus had he had the same open playbook Gus has now?

    We really don't know the anser to that one & with the opening up of the playbook, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison between the first 3 games & the last 3.

    What Frerotte does bring to the table is his 15 years experience, but his lack of mobility has also proven to be costly as well.
    I know so, Gus Frerotte and Tarvaris Jackson at this stage of his carear are night day. In the first week of the season against the Packers Jackson tried throwing the game away before he really got cranking, luckily the LB dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands. It would have been the worst possible time to have a mental mistake like that. Too much pressure on Jackson's shoulders results in bad games on his part, he needs the help around him to succeed.

    Frerotte on the other hand might not be moble but he just does fine in terms of pocket mobility where Jackson would completely take off instead of just sliding while remaining in the pocket to deliver the football.

    My biggest issue with the ordeal would in the fact that the coaching staff had an even more enemic offensive game plans when Tarvaris was QB, WHY? Well I guess one could say there confidence level wasn't so high. Maybe thats the reason Childress panicked to get him off the field Vs Tenessee after back to back sacks. His excuse was he thought the defense could get the ball back for them with under a minute and we could come back from two scores. IMO it looked as though they threw the towl in, Tarvaris can't convert this. Not a good sign.

  7. #17
    tclawmen is offline Starter
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "singersp" wrote:
    "tclawmen" wrote:
    With our inablility to put the ball into the endzone with any consistency there seems to be a fair # of people who are saying that we should put Gus on the bench and bring back Jackson to lead (???) the team.
    Has Tjack done something in the last couple of weeks to warrant any more confidence in him than we had when he was pulled out? Is'nt he the same Q/B that averages about 140 yards a game and takes just as many sacks due to his indecision. At least with Gus there is some ability to find the open reciever and make plays down the field but if you think Tjack is the guy, than make your case.
    LMAO! Where did you pull your sack stats from? Never mind, we know.

    Number of times sacked;

    Jackson: 5

    Frerotte: 11
    I thought I broke it down by % in comparison to the # of passes attempted but if I was not exact enough for you then I thank you for correcting me and I certainly apologize. Oh by the way, you might want to check on that yardage I posted as Tjacks average because I dont think that is right either.

  8. #18
    ragz's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    Bad idea, our coaching staff has very little confidence in Tarvaris Jackson and that was on display quite early in the season. The playbook was more vanilla than it is today. At least with Gus they opended things up a bit and he's done way better than Jackson would given the current sitation.

    Coming into the season I felt Tarvaris had a really good chance to suceed with everything around him, I thought the Oline would be way better and Sidney Rice would have a few TD's by now. Whats happened though is inconsistent Offensive Line play which really tells the rest of the story. Tarvaris Jackson with Gus Frerotte type pressure on his back is a disaster in the making.
    I don't know if I would go so far as to say that.

    Would Gus be doing better than Jackson if the playbook had not been opened up?

    Would Jackson have done better than Gus had he had the same open playbook Gus has now?

    We really don't know the anser to that one & with the opening up of the playbook, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison between the first 3 games & the last 3.

    What Frerotte does bring to the table is his 15 years experience, but his lack of mobility has also proven to be costly as well.
    its true.
    i mean i just looked at the first half stats and saw ferrotte threw the ball 19 times.
    that would be like a sick amount of attempts for jackson.
    and people get decieved by that when they see 11-19 for 100 yards cuz it doesnt look like 3-7 for 10 yards.
    but in the end the results are the same cuz we had no points.
    i think it might have been interesting to see how jackson did perform in an offense more like we run now.
    he might have been just as average as before, but i wouldnt exactly say that i know for sure he wouldnt have been able to score 10 points with the same amount of shots ferrotte gets.
    the debate is getting tiresome, but what i always felt was that he wasn't really the problem.
    and i would say by the actual production of the offense with the changes that have been made, i was pretty much right.
    nothing like patting yourself on the back eh.
    "self improvement's masturbation.
    now self destruction" that's enlightenment

  9. #19
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    Bad idea, our coaching staff has very little confidence in Tarvaris Jackson and that was on display quite early in the season. The playbook was more vanilla than it is today. At least with Gus they opended things up a bit and he's done way better than Jackson would given the current sitation.

    Coming into the season I felt Tarvaris had a really good chance to suceed with everything around him, I thought the Oline would be way better and Sidney Rice would have a few TD's by now. Whats happened though is inconsistent Offensive Line play which really tells the rest of the story. Tarvaris Jackson with Gus Frerotte type pressure on his back is a disaster in the making.
    I don't know if I would go so far as to say that.

    Would Gus be doing better than Jackson if the playbook had not been opened up?

    Would Jackson have done better than Gus had he had the same open playbook Gus has now?

    We really don't know the anser to that one & with the opening up of the playbook, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison between the first 3 games & the last 3.

    What Frerotte does bring to the table is his 15 years experience, but his lack of mobility has also proven to be costly as well.
    I know so, Gus Frerotte and Tarvaris Jackson at this stage of his carear are night day. In the first week of the season against the Packers Jackson tried throwing the game away before he really got cranking, luckily the LB dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands. It would have been the worst possible time to have a mental mistake like that. Too much pressure on Jackson's shoulders results in bad games on his part, he needs the help around him to succeed.

    Frerotte on the other hand might not be moble but he just does fine in terms of pocket mobility where Jackson would completely take off instead of just sliding while remaining in the pocket to deliver the football.

    My biggest issue with the ordeal would in the fact that the coaching staff had an even more enemic offensive game plans when Tarvaris was QB, WHY? Well I guess one could say there confidence level wasn't so high. Maybe thats the reason Childress panicked to get him off the field Vs Tenessee after back to back sacks. His excuse was he thought the defense could get the ball back for them with under a minute and we could come back from two scores. IMO it looked as though they threw the towl in, Tarvaris can't convert this. Not a good sign.
    That is where I disagree with you. I don't think the playbook was opened up purely because Frerotte got the nod. IMO he opened it up because what he was calling just wasn't working. It had nothing to do with fear or confidence in Jackson as far as the playbook was concerned. Childress had the confidence in Jackson before the start of the regular season, which is why he was named the starter.

    Childress' job is on the line & he knows it. My guess is he felt Frerotte could help him keep it along with opening up the playbook more.

    No matter who's in there at QB, we look mediocre at best. Far, far from being a
    playoff caliber team.

    There were wide open receivers today providing easy targets for Frerotte. More open than I saw all year. Plus we have fewer drops now & receivers are hanging onto the ball which is something we didn't see when Jackson was in there.

    We are ekeing out wins with Frerotte, a great deal in part as to some PI calls going are way to bail us out along with a couple of others. About time I may add.

    Anybody who thinks Frerotte can lead us deep into the playoffs the way this team is playing is only fooling themselves.

    If Childress' plan is to let Jackson ride the pine & learn for another year & start him next year or the year after that, then for that to happen, Jackson needs to be resigned in the offseason doesn't he? If the plan is to resign him, then I'm in favor of sticking with Frerotte.

    If that isn't the case & the decision of him being a Viking next year or not will be made at seasons end, then I'd rather see Jackson play out the remainder of the year & see if he progresses enough to warrant a resigning or should be let go.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #20
    tclawmen is offline Starter
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "singersp" wrote:
    "tclawmen" wrote:
    With our inablility to put the ball into the endzone with any consistency there seems to be a fair # of people who are saying that we should put Gus on the bench and bring back Jackson to lead (???) the team.
    Has Tjack done something in the last couple of weeks to warrant any more confidence in him than we had when he was pulled out? Is'nt he the same Q/B that averages about 140 yards a game and takes just as many sacks due to his indecision. At least with Gus there is some ability to find the open reciever and make plays down the field but if you think Tjack is the guy, than make your case.
    LMAO! Where did you pull your sack stats from? Never mind, we know.

    Number of times sacked;

    Jackson: 5

    Frerotte: 11

    Here you go, I actually took the time to look up the numbers.

    In Jacksons 2 starts this year he was 30 for 59 for 308 yards (154 yard average with 5 sacks and that is 1 sack for every 11.8 attempts)

    In Gus's 4 starts this year he is 78 for 140 for 988 yards (247 yard average with 13 sacks and that is 1 sack for every 10.7 attempts)

    I believe those stats qualify what I said in my original post and that is they get the same # of sacks (on a % based on the number of attempts.

    Do you feel better now?



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