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  1. #101
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "ultravikingfan" wrote:
    I agree with putting Gus in.

    This is a "win now" league and he gives us the best chance.
    The experiment is over and it is obvious that TJ is not our guy at all.

    Now, if we were statistically out of it...then we can dabble.
    Gus does give us a win now becasue of the way the WRs responded to him.
    He's not that much better than TJ but all in all he gives us the better chance to win now.
    If we were 1-5 or so then I would say put TJ back in so he can get more experience.
    Since we are winning with Gus, keep him in.

  2. #102
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    This debate doesn't mean much to me.
    Neither one is great. Gus won't likely hold up physically for the rest of the season, so TJ will be back soon enough.
    If we go on a losing streak, TJ will be back also.
    So hopefully TJ is learning from the sideline and not just sitting there with his hat on backwards.
    A little consistancy and improvement would do wonders for TJ and the offense.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  3. #103
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    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "midgensa" wrote:
    "All" wrote:
    I do not think that we lost any games because of our QB play and i also do not think we won any games because of our QB play.

    One thing that is ticking me off is when people say that THEY KNOW Tjack would not have done good if the play calling was opened up for him like it is now for Gus. That is just an ignorent statement. How would it sound if i said that I KNOW that Tjack would have done way better than Gus if it was opened up for him. I think that would be an ignorent statement as well.
    Spelling ignorant incorrectly is also a little ignorant.
    [b]There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to think that T-Jack would have gotten us the late victories in New Orleans or Detroit.[/b] We would have probably still won the Panthers game, but the other two would very unlikely have been wins with T-Jack at the helm.
    This open up the playbook crap that people keep spewing is ridiculous. We have the same damn playbook, the coaches feel Gus can make some plays and they call those plays. There was nothing T-Jack showed us in the first two games of the season to make us think he had ANY chance of stretching the field.
    One thing I absolutely do KNOW is that we have WON those games with Gus at the helm. I may not know if we would have won or lost with T-Jack ... but I am 100 percent positive of the fact that we won with Gus. What else can we ask of him?
    How about the two 4th quarter offensive TD drives against Greenbay this year?
    Or the 4th quarter game winning offensive TD drive against Chicage in week 15 of 07?
    Or the 2 TJack TD runs in the 4th quarter in week 16 of 07 against Washington?(Tjacks 3rd TD of the second half).
    Or the 2 Tjack TD passes in the 4th quarter in week 17 of 07 against Denver(sending the game to overtime)?

    So in Jacksons last 5 games(the colts game is the exception) the offense has scored 7TD in the 4th quarter.
    In Ferrottes last 4 games the offense has scored 2TD(1against saints and 1 against Tennesee) in the 4th quarter.

    This makes me curious, how do the 2 QB's each fair in their last 4 games as the Vikings starting QB.
    Ferrotte
    78/140 55.7% 988yds 3td 3int 11sacks 7rushes 3rushyards 0rushing tds record 3-1
    Tjack
    71/131 54.1% 703yds 4td 3int 7sacks 23rushes 145rushyards 2rushing tds. record0-4(following 6 consecutive vikings wins when Jackson started)

  4. #104
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    This debate doesn't mean much to me.
    Neither one is great. Gus won't likely hold up physically for the rest of the season, so TJ will be back soon enough.
    If we go on a losing streak, TJ will be back also.
    So hopefully TJ is learning from the sideline and not just sitting there with his hat on backwards.
    A little consistancy and improvement would do wonders for TJ and the offense.
    I agree 100%.
    Hopfully he is learning and taking everything in.
    He most likely will be back becasue there is no way Gus can continue to take the punishment he has been taking the last couple of games.

  5. #105
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "C" wrote:
    I was originally against the Ferrotte move, but I think it was clearly the better decision now.

    He can handle the game and consistently throw for 200+ yards, something Jackson couldn't.

    Exactly. TJ only did it 4 times in his career, Gus has done it in every game this year.

  6. #106
    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    I was originally against the Ferrotte move, but I think it was clearly the better decision now.

    He can handle the game and consistently throw for 200+ yards, something Jackson couldn't.

    Exactly. TJ only did it 4 times in his career, Gus has done it in every game this year.
    4 of his last 7 mind you.
    Jackson first 8 starts
    98/186 52.7% 1034yds 3tds 9int 15sacks QB rating 54.6 28rushes 141yds 2td
    Jackson starts 9-16
    133/221 60.2% 1458yds 7td 6int 14sacks QB rating 78.59 49rushes 241yds 2td

    The reason I want jackson starting is because he has potential. If he were to improve as much as he did from his first 8 games to his second 8 games his stats would look something like this.
    180/263 68.4% 2056yds 16tds 4ints 13sacks 84rushes 412yds 2td
    ;D
    The other reason I like Tjack over Gus is because over his last 8 games he has a higher QB rating than Gus has for his career and for this season.

  7. #107
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    I was originally against the Ferrotte move, but I think it was clearly the better decision now.

    He can handle the game and consistently throw for 200+ yards, something Jackson couldn't.

    Exactly. TJ only did it 4 times in his career, Gus has done it in every game this year.
    4 of his last 7 mind you.
    Jackson first 8 starts
    98/186 52.7% 1034yds 3tds 9int 15sacks QB rating 54.6 28rushes 141yds 2td
    Jackson starts 9-16
    133/221 60.2% 1458yds 7td 6int 14sacks QB rating 78.59 49rushes 241yds 2td

    The reason I want jackson starting is because he has potential. If he were to improve as much as he did from his first 8 games to his second 8 games his stats would look something like this.
    180/263 68.4% 2056yds 16tds 4ints 13sacks 84rushes 412yds 2td
    ;D
    The other reason I like Tjack over Gus is because over his last 8 games he has a higher QB rating than Gus has for his career and for this season.
    You're comparing an 8 game QB rating vs. a 15+ year QB rating?

    Smart move....
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  8. #108
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "midgensa" wrote:
    "All" wrote:
    I do not think that we lost any games because of our QB play and i also do not think we won any games because of our QB play.

    One thing that is ticking me off is when people say that THEY KNOW Tjack would not have done good if the play calling was opened up for him like it is now for Gus. That is just an ignorent statement. How would it sound if i said that I KNOW that Tjack would have done way better than Gus if it was opened up for him. I think that would be an ignorent statement as well.
    Spelling ignorant incorrectly is also a little ignorant.
    [b]There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to think that T-Jack would have gotten us the late victories in New Orleans or Detroit.[/b] We would have probably still won the Panthers game, but the other two would very unlikely have been wins with T-Jack at the helm.
    This open up the playbook crap that people keep spewing is ridiculous. We have the same gol 'darnit playbook, the coaches feel Gus can make some plays and they call those plays. There was nothing T-Jack showed us in the first two games of the season to make us think he had ANY chance of stretching the field.
    One thing I absolutely do KNOW is that we have WON those games with Gus at the helm. I may not know if we would have won or lost with T-Jack ... but I am 100 percent positive of the fact that we won with Gus. What else can we ask of him?
    How about the two 4th quarter offensive TD drives against Greenbay this year?
    Or the 4th quarter game winning offensive TD drive against Chicage in week 15 of 07?
    Or the 2 TJack TD runs in the 4th quarter in week 16 of 07 against Washington?(Tjacks 3rd TD of the second half).
    Or the 2 Tjack TD passes in the 4th quarter in week 17 of 07 against Denver(sending the game to overtime)?

    So in Jacksons last 5 games(the colts game is the exception) the offense has scored 7TD in the 4th quarter.
    In Ferrottes last 4 games the offense has scored 2TD(1against saints and 1 against Tennesee) in the 4th quarter.

    This makes me curious, how do the 2 QB's each fair in their last 4 games as the Vikings starting QB.
    Ferrotte
    78/140 55.7% 988yds 3td 3int 11sacks 7rushes 3rushyards 0rushing tds record 3-1
    Tjack
    71/131 54.1% 703yds 4td 3int 7sacks 23rushes 145rushyards 2rushing tds. record0-4(following 6 consecutive vikings wins when Jackson started)
    We scored 10 offensive points against the lions with gus. He had a 80 yard pass that was 90 percent run by berrian but that is beside the point. Tjack couldnt have brought us back in that game? well how did gus bring us back when we had a 40 yard pass interference call to set up the game winning fg. i guess that was gus bringing us back????

    Gus brought us back against the Saints? Fluke plays and turnovers where the only reason we won that game not gus.

    Also im sorry i spelled a word wrong i did not know this was English class

  9. #109
    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "C" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    I was originally against the Ferrotte move, but I think it was clearly the better decision now.

    He can handle the game and consistently throw for 200+ yards, something Jackson couldn't.

    Exactly. TJ only did it 4 times in his career, Gus has done it in every game this year.
    4 of his last 7 mind you.
    Jackson first 8 starts
    98/186 52.7% 1034yds 3tds 9int 15sacks QB rating 54.6 28rushes 141yds 2td
    Jackson starts 9-16
    133/221 60.2% 1458yds 7td 6int 14sacks QB rating 78.59 49rushes 241yds 2td

    The reason I want jackson starting is because he has potential. If he were to improve as much as he did from his first 8 games to his second 8 games his stats would look something like this.
    180/263 68.4% 2056yds 16tds 4ints 13sacks 84rushes 412yds 2td
    ;D
    The other reason I like Tjack over Gus is because over his last 8 games he has a higher QB rating than Gus has for his career and for this season.
    You're comparing an 8 game QB rating vs. a 15+ year QB rating?

    Smart move....
    I thought I was being generous since Gus is way past his prime but if you want to look at just Gusses last 8 starts
    (had to go all the way back to 2005)then his QB rating would be 71.7, still lower than Jackson 78.59(and his career 74.4).
    What I am really comparing is Jackson is his first 8 games of his NFL career and his second 8 games, my point being that Jackson was in fact getting better, and very well would have continued to improve if given more time.

  10. #110
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    Re: Im curious how many are advocating Tjack over Gus

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    I was originally against the Ferrotte move, but I think it was clearly the better decision now.

    He can handle the game and consistently throw for 200+ yards, something Jackson couldn't.

    Exactly. TJ only did it 4 times in his career, Gus has done it in every game this year.
    4 of his last 7 mind you.
    Jackson first 8 starts
    98/186 52.7% 1034yds 3tds 9int 15sacks QB rating 54.6 28rushes 141yds 2td
    Jackson starts 9-16
    133/221 60.2% 1458yds 7td 6int 14sacks QB rating 78.59 49rushes 241yds 2td

    The reason I want jackson starting is because he has potential. If he were to improve as much as he did from his first 8 games to his second 8 games his stats would look something like this.
    180/263 68.4% 2056yds 16tds 4ints 13sacks 84rushes 412yds 2td
    ;D
    The other reason I like Tjack over Gus is because over his last 8 games he has a higher QB rating than Gus has for his career and for this season.
    Scary to think how good he will be after 40 games



    I understand the rationale of wanting to develop a younger QB and how that could be more beneficial for us in the longer term.
    What I am not convinced of is whether TJack can be that guy and whether the risk is worth jeopardizing another season.
    If you believe that TJack gives us a better chance of winning today, then I could accept that side of the argument.

    I disagree that he gives us a better chance than Gus right now.
    I also don't believe that TJack will get significantly better by putting him back in as the starter at this point.
    Maybe down the road.


    Gus is not our future, but he will be key to how we do this season.
    Next year, I think its wide open who will be our starting QB and maybe HC.

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