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  1. #11
    Minniman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    One would think so, but the Vikings led the league in sacks last year at 50 while getting a league worse 8 INT's. The team that led in INT's was Green Bay at 31, yet they were 27th in sacks.
    Exactly, it is the scheme.

    The Vikings are not schemed to attack the ball in the air. It is a passive defense.

  2. #12
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    well, I would also say that it would be based on the talent and skill set of the players. bring in some talent and players who can read a play, add that to the arrent/miss timed throws and you'll have the int # rise. i won't say that we had the talent in place in the backfield/cb to be the ballhawking defence, though look @ gb.. they have some of that back end talent. though.. do you see them doing it now? it's the first qtr of the season.. we'll see how this one plays out, but i've got hopes we're on the rise, maybe this year.. probably next we should see that aggressiveness on the D take it's tolls on the apposing qb's.

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital420 View Post
    well, I would also say that it would be based on the talent and skill set of the players. bring in some talent and players who can read a play, add that to the arrent/miss timed throws and you'll have the int # rise. i won't say that we had the talent in place in the backfield/cb to be the ballhawking defence, though look @ gb.. they have some of that back end talent. though.. do you see them doing it now? it's the first qtr of the season.. we'll see how this one plays out, but i've got hopes we're on the rise, maybe this year.. probably next we should see that aggressiveness on the D take it's tolls on the apposing qb's.

    DiGiTaL
    I tend to think that we have the talent in place. They are starting to get "Hit" with passes and are just not hanging onto them or are not even aware the ball is there.

    I think that will get better with time.

    As to the whole "Sacks" discussion. Think about this....50 sacks, equal 50 plays defensively that the DLmen did their job (I bet we would find out that not all 50 are from the DL) . Our opponents were on the field for 1027 plays. 538 of those were passing plays. What was our great DL doing on the other 488 plays?

    In the end sacks are a great stat for fans to track but there is alot more to the game than that when it comes to team play.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post


    .

    . What was our great DL doing on the other 488 plays?

    .
    Watching the secondary get torched.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Watching the secondary get torched.
    LOL.......OK, now you just bumped Tasty down a level on that spreadsheet.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Watching the secondary get torched.
    The secondary played better at Detroit. I still do not like the softness of the deep zones, but at least some players have shown they can cover and can tackle.

    I still see way too many plays with coverage guys trailing the receiver by two yards or more and plays with three defenders deep and no one under to pick up the ball or challenge the reception.

    All teams in the NFL play zone at times, and many play it as a favored defense. No team can go man up all the time and not get worn down. The problem that I see is the difference in aggressiveness in how these schemes are played. The Vikings play soft zones and do not attack the ball. They fear giving up the big play more than they want to make the big play. It is passive.

    As far as sacks go, they are nice to get. Sacks can stall a drive or force a punt. They can also be overcome by the offense. An interception not only stops a drive but also often negates the field position advantage of a punt. Sacks are good, picks are great.

    The Vikings were NFL leaders in sacks last season and finished 3-13. The Packers defense gave up many yards but were league leaders in turnovers. They finished 15-1. While offensive differences were there as well, one has to take the turnovers into account.
    Last edited by Minniman; 10-03-2012 at 08:38 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    The secondary played better at Detroit. I still do not like the softness of the deep zones, but at least some players have shown they can cover and can tackle.

    I still see way to many plays with coverage guys trailing the receiver by two yards or more and plays with three defenders deep and no one under to pick up the ball or challenge the reception.

    All teams in the NFL play zone at times, and many play it as a favored defense. No team can go man up all the time and not get worn down. The problem that I see is the difference in aggressiveness in how these schemes are played. The Vikings play soft zones and do not attack the ball. They fear giving up the big play more than they want to make the big play. It is passive.

    As far as sacks go, they are nice to get. Sacks can stall a drive or force a punt. They can also be overcome by the offense. An interception not only stops a drive but also often negates the field position advantage of a punt. Sacks are good, picks are great.

    The Vikings were NFL leaders in sacks last season and finished 3-13. The Packers defense gave up many yards but were league leaders in turnovers. They finished 15-1. While offensive differences were there as well, one has to take the turnovers into account.
    The problem I see is a learning problem. We have very young DBs and it will take time to comprehend the scheme every single play and get to their respective spots. if you look at our secondary we have Chris Cook 3rd year (really 2nd year) he didn't play last year, Harrison Smith (rookie), JR (rookie), and Winfield veteran starting this year. That is a very young secondary and will take some time to gel, they seem very talented though and I am jacked to see what they can do in the future. I think next year we will have a good secondary. I am conservative in my opinion as I think they can be a really great secondary if they continue to grow as they have in these few short weeks.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    The secondary played better at Detroit. I still do not like the softness of the deep zones, but at least some players have shown they can cover and can tackle.

    I still see way too many plays with coverage guys trailing the receiver by two yards or more and plays with three defenders deep and no one under to pick up the ball or challenge the reception.

    All teams in the NFL play zone at times, and many play it as a favored defense. No team can go man up all the time and not get worn down. The problem that I see is the difference in aggressiveness in how these schemes are played. The Vikings play soft zones and do not attack the ball. They fear giving up the big play more than they want to make the big play. It is passive.

    As far as sacks go, they are nice to get. Sacks can stall a drive or force a punt. They can also be overcome by the offense. An interception not only stops a drive but also often negates the field position advantage of a punt. Sacks are good, picks are great.

    The Vikings were NFL leaders in sacks last season and finished 3-13. The Packers defense gave up many yards but were league leaders in turnovers. They finished 15-1. While offensive differences were there as well, one has to take the turnovers into account.
    This has definitely been the case for some time. I would like to think though that a lot of it is predicated by the talent level vs. the coaches desire. Once they start trusting the DB's, I think they will start allowing more aggressive play. At least that's my hope.

  9. #19
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    In the last 8 years of running the cover 2... our Dbs fail to intecept the ball or break up a considerate amount of passes. Check the stats... the fact remains what ever we are doing in the cover 2 its not what CHI is doing. I believe its because we play an 4-3 over base and they do not (don't watch enough of their games to check on gaps each defender is hitting).

  10. #20
    Reignman is offline Asst. Coach
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    Not only are the Bears more aggressive when it comes to INT's than the Vikings, but they're also more aggressive when it comes to ripping at the ball. On almost every tackle in the Cowboys game, there was a Bear ripping or punching at the ball. The Packers are the same way, someone on their defense is always ripping at the ball carrier and that has everything to do with coaching.

    You don't ever see our defense going for the ball and I don't understand why. Especially when the ball carrier is wrapped up, the 2nd or 3rd guy on the pile never takes a swipe at the ball. It's frustrating because you know turnover differential is almost the most important stat in football, yet we have a defense that almost seems indifferent about takeaways.

    Hopefully our defense is finally gaining some confidence and maybe that will translate into a more aggressive ball-hawking defense down the road. We have certainly gotten more aggressive in the hits department the past 2 games and more so vs Detroit and that's an encouraging sign.

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