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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    OK boys and girls, I think we have an official nomination for the Common Man's most preposterous statement of the year.lol
    Pretty sure he's talking about arm strength.

  2. #82
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    In order to be successful, Ponder is going to have to be on the exact same page as his receivers. He is going to have to throw to open field long before the receiver, and it is going to have to be to a spot that only the WR can get to. It is not impossible, but it is a lot more difficult than it would be if he was firing it in.
    There's also a lot of talk about confidence, and those timing routes require it from both ends. I believe that is where Ponder's growing experience teamed up with Greg Jennings route running reliability is going to help tremendously.

    And, tho he is dynamite with a ball in his hands, Harvin's "I got a headache and don't want to pay attention in practice today," being replaced with Jennings more workman like attitude can rub off on the other young WRs we have, and improve that whole department.

    At least that's what I hope!! SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    There's also a lot of talk about confidence, and those timing routes require it from both ends. I believe that is where Ponder's growing experience teamed up with Greg Jennings route running reliability is going to help tremendously.

    And, tho he is dynamite with a ball in his hands, Harvin's "I got a headache and don't want to pay attention in practice today," being replaced with Jennings more workman like attitude can rub off on the other young WRs we have, and improve that whole department.

    At least that's what I hope!! SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!
    Great post my friend. Great post indeed.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    I do think Musgrave tries to adopt to his roster, but also likes the short horizontal passing game. He did say this when he was hired:



    On the arm strength/ball velocity point. I agree that Ponder is probably a below average QB in respect to how much velocity he puts on his throws, which means he does need to anticipate better than a guy like Favre or Flacco. But I don't see him being much different than Brees or Peyton. He also needs receivers that will win contested battles (like most QB's). In the long run, if he can figure it out, this will probably serve him better. He will need to figure it out quick though, the NFL tryout is coming to an end.
    A certain yutz did a initial analysis thread on old Musgrove when he was first hired. If memory serves, he ran a dink dunk short pass offense every time he was a O-coord and in at least one instance he had a strong armed QB that could go deep.

    The QB isn't driving our scheme, the O-coord is. Thats why they drafted a QB that was best suited to run it.

    Think back, Walsh ran the Air Coryell "More Vertical" offense. When he was stuck with a weak armed QB he came up with what is now called the Dink Dunk offense. Thats why he, from that point on, always drafted a QB that didn't so much have a strong arm but rather knew were and when to throw the ball.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    Two great posts. Both spot on.
    I can recall people saying the receivers weren't getting open last year. There is some element of truth to that. But when given the camera angle to see it, I recall seeing receivers coming open but Ponder was to late to see it, and often pulled the ball back down and ran because the receivers were covered up again. He couldn't anticipate the receiver coming open and therefore wouldn't pull the trigger and deliver the ball.
    That anticipation should improve this year, but woeful inaccuracy could render the point moot.

    Ponder was definitely the limitation on what Musgrave could do. I don't think it will work this year to just hand off to AP. Green Bay found a way to limit gains in the outside runs during the play off game, and other teams will follow suit. AP will still get his yards but the team will need a passing game to do well.

    I wonder what Musgrave could do with Cassel at the helm. We will catch a glimpse in pre-season.

    I honestly believe this team could be very good with good QB play.
    Quick question......Why do you think the Vikings drafted Ponder? Because of his limitations? They drafted him because he fit the scheme they want to run.

    The limitation was directly related to Ponder inexperience coupled together with a very complex offense and WR's that could not get separation when the were SUPPOSED to. Did they eventually get open? Sure but in almost every instance I bet it was passed the window were Ponder was supposed to throw the ball to.

    That last sentence is pretty key because Ponder is supposed to deliver the ball to a spot before the WR gets there. If it doesn't appear he is going to have the separation at that spot Ponder is then supposed to go onto the second read in his progression.

    That statement is pretty important as well. In this variation of the WCO, the QB always throws to the guy he thinks is going to be open based on his pre-snap read. If he has to go to a second or third option, he basically read the defense wrong.

    Kindof makes me chuckle when I see Vikings fans hack on him for "locking in on a target". Watch Brady when he's reading the defenses right. He never looks at anything but his prime target. Quick read, quick release.......staple of the Walsh Dink Dunk scheme.
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I think the 4/33 in the 20-40 yard range is very telling. Over 40 usually means some kind of defensive breakdown, or the receiver gets behind the defender. 20-40 is right in the coverage area, and a slow ball is going to mean more defended passes.
    It can also mean that the WR did not get the separation intended as well. The longer the ball, the easier it is for the DB's to make adjustments on them and if they are step for step with the WR, its really easy.

    I know most don't want to agree, but our WR's last year did not get separation when they were supposed to. Most instances, when they were wide open, were times after Ponder was supposed to go to them based on the read and timing associated with that read.

    Gonna be fun to watch Jennings work the field this year. Vikings fans are going to remember what the word separation means.

    Another thing that will come of that....QB confidence. Not in himself, but in the WR's to be were they are supposed to be when the ball gets there. I think he had absolutely no confidence in anyone other than Percy and Rudy last year. All the defense had to do was take one or the other out, which wasn't to hard.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    I'm with you on this ranger. I have faith that this will be the season he steps it up. Late last season it looked like he was more comfortable with the speed of the game. He wasn't throwing behind the receivers as has been his way prior to that. Especially throwing on the move. If however he does not come out and show marked improvement, I will jump on the "Start Cassell" bandwagon that will probably be rolling along from the first preseason game on. I do not want to see us wait as many years as it took Eli to finally become a very good QB with the Giants. My personal line in the sand is three seasons to show you've got what it takes. Doesn't mean I am expecting Rodgers numbers out of him, but much better leadership than his career so far.
    Depends on the circumstance for a sub 100 yard game.

    Lets pretend AD gets a quick hit off the first drive for six and the defense comes out and gets a pick six early in the first quarter followed up by a STs return for 6.

    Yup, I think the QB is gonna get very few yards that game as the staff will pound it down the other teams throat for the rest of the game.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    Musgrave seems to play it safe when he knows he can attempt a field goal and doesn't take a lot of chances with Ponder's arm in those situations. To me that seems indicative of a lack of trust by Musgrave.
    The biggest negative for Ponder is his response to pressure. He seems to be that NFL caliber QB when he has time to throw, but makes poor choices when pressured.
    That should improve with better pass blocking, better receivers, and more experience reading defenses.
    But right now he is a QB that can be rattled.
    The best NFL QB's can burn the defense when they blitz. Ponder has yet to reach that level.
    I keep hearing people say he can " make all the throws", so I can only assume the problem is between his ears. If he can remain calm when pressured, I believe he could have a much better year.
    Something fun to watch this year.....Brady. He is going to look very rattled. Is it because he doesn't have it between his ears or because he won't have a WR on the field that he has confidence in.

    Again, something to watch.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    It can also mean that the WR did not get the separation intended as well. The longer the ball, the easier it is for the DB's to make adjustments on them and if they are step for step with the WR, its really easy.

    I know most don't want to agree, but our WR's last year did not get separation when they were supposed to. Most instances, when they were wide open, were times after Ponder was supposed to go to them based on the read and timing associated with that read.

    Gonna be fun to watch Jennings work the field this year. Vikings fans are going to remember what the word separation means.

    Another thing that will come of that....QB confidence. Not in himself, but in the WR's to be were they are supposed to be when the ball gets there. I think he had absolutely no confidence in anyone other than Percy and Rudy last year. All the defense had to do was take one or the other out, which wasn't to hard.
    I agree that the receivers were a big part of the equation, but you still have to look at the fact that he took 33 shots in that range only hit on 4. You would have to go back and look at each and every play from many different aspects to understand how much of the blame goes on Ponder, but the fact he hit on so few of them, is a pretty good indication that he was a big part of the equation as well.

    This could very well improve this year, especially if the team puts more focus on it. But I think we can all agree that it needs to improve.

  10. #90
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    Gentlemen Gentlemen The point is, IF Ponder does not pan out like I have a feeling he wont, would you rather do a blockbuster trade for Bridgewater, or the top QB in the 2014 class? Or trade for a potential franchise QB like Ryan Mallett or Kirk Cousins.

    The thing is the Vikings took a flyer on a QB that they thought was smart, accurate, and played in a pro style offense. Ponder was a "Safe" pick to become an ok-decent starter! but they forgot about the number 1 thing when it comes to drafting NFL players... INTANGIBLES. Ponder doesnt have "IT" he never did even in college. Which is why he was projected as a good backup/average starter. The vikings thought they could take him and run the ball all day and do 5-15 yard passes all the way down the field. I believe they are realizing that this is a 70% passing league. I believe this year we are going to let Ponder fling the ball all around the field and see if he can blossom into a Good QB like Drew Brees did! Remember when Drew was a noodle arm QB in San Diego?

    This team is honestly in great shape for the future. We have a TON of YOUNG talent. I think if we resign all our young talent and have ANOTHER good 2014 draft class we are set for the next 5-10 years to be good. We don't have many holes left to fill. NT/G/SS/OLB is all the "holes" we got left. Ponder has been given the keys to a team with a bright future, and HE KNOWS if he doesnt atleast show signs of becoming a top 16 QB he is out.

    I just want to know what does the team do? The team is young enough to bring in a Rookie QB, but then thats another 2-3 years we are robbing of Adrian Peterson. OR we can trade for Ryan Mallett, my number 1 choice, and the guy I think we shouldve drafted back in 2011 anyway.. or Kirk Cousins from 2012.. Iono what we will do, but I wish we wouldve brought in a decent QB to make Ponder earn it instead of trying to boost his confidence by protecting him.. I think winning a competition is a better confidence booster than someone just handing you something.

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