Page 8 of 14 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 137
  1. #71
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,869
    I read a long thread on Ponder the other day where two stat junkies dissected and bisected Ponder in a hundred different ways. Some key stat categories Ponder looks good (as Marrdro usually highlights) and some key stat categories Ponder looks bad which Singer generally finds. He gets harped on a lot on his lack of long completions (as he should), but the area I found most revealing was his complete failure in the 20-40 yard category where he was 4/33. 40+ he was 2/3. Rodgers was one of the best hitting 19/47. Over 40 yards he was 0/6. If Ponder can even get to 30-35% completions at that range it will change the way defenses play us.

    Receivers no doubt were part of that equation as was the way Musgrave/Frazier wanted to call a conservative game. Nonetheless, Ponder took 33 shots and only completed 4. I hope this is a point of emphasis in the offseason and we see more success in this area. If Ponder continues to struggle with these throws, then I would guess the coaching staff will get antsy.

    I don't think the strength of his arm is the issue. I think it is mostly confidence related and is a maybe the most technical aspect to playing in the NFL. When you see a QB like Brady, Peyton or Rodgers get into a rhythm, it is a thing of beauty, especially when you get camera angles that show it from their perspective. They are playing with a ton of confidence. One thing those guys all have in common I am quite sure is that it is a point of emphasis and a large part of what they practice. Not so sure that is the case with MN. Especially as this team was being revamped over the last few years with the intent to create a long term successful franchise. The focus has been on building a well rounded team in all three phases with an emphasis on physical play. I think we have made great strides in the last couple of years to that purpose, addressing a number of weaknesses. Going into this year I think most would agree that our biggest weaknesses were in passing offense and passing defense. Both of these areas were upgraded in talent IMO, now they need to see it pan out during the season. For Ponder, if he can't develop success in the 20-40 yard range, his time as a starting QB will most likely be coming to an end.

  2. #72
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    I read a long thread on Ponder the other day where two stat junkies dissected and bisected Ponder in a hundred different ways. Some key stat categories Ponder looks good (as Marrdro usually highlights) and some key stat categories Ponder looks bad which Singer generally finds. He gets harped on a lot on his lack of long completions (as he should), but the area I found most revealing was his complete failure in the 20-40 yard category where he was 4/33. 40+ he was 2/3. Rodgers was one of the best hitting 19/47. Over 40 yards he was 0/6. If Ponder can even get to 30-35% completions at that range it will change the way defenses play us.

    Receivers no doubt were part of that equation as was the way Musgrave/Frazier wanted to call a conservative game. Nonetheless, Ponder took 33 shots and only completed 4. I hope this is a point of emphasis in the offseason and we see more success in this area. If Ponder continues to struggle with these throws, then I would guess the coaching staff will get antsy.

    I don't think the strength of his arm is the issue. I think it is mostly confidence related and is a maybe the most technical aspect to playing in the NFL. When you see a QB like Brady, Peyton or Rodgers get into a rhythm, it is a thing of beauty, especially when you get camera angles that show it from their perspective. They are playing with a ton of confidence. One thing those guys all have in common I am quite sure is that it is a point of emphasis and a large part of what they practice. Not so sure that is the case with MN. Especially as this team was being revamped over the last few years with the intent to create a long term successful franchise. The focus has been on building a well rounded team in all three phases with an emphasis on physical play. I think we have made great strides in the last couple of years to that purpose, addressing a number of weaknesses. Going into this year I think most would agree that our biggest weaknesses were in passing offense and passing defense. Both of these areas were upgraded in talent IMO, now they need to see it pan out during the season. For Ponder, if he can't develop success in the 20-40 yard range, his time as a starting QB will most likely be coming to an end.
    Great post, and dead on like usual.

    I only want to comment on two parts:
    Receivers no doubt were part of that equation as was the way Musgrave/Frazier wanted to call a conservative game.
    I am of the opinion that Musgrave called the offense the way he did because of the limitations at QB and WR, not the other way around. In fact, I have said it before, but I think Musgrave was borderline brilliant in the way he devised game plans that allowed us to be marginally successful without a passing attack to speak of.

    Look at the difference in the plays called between Musgrave's Atlanta time and now. They are pretty different, and that is because he adapted his game plan to the abilities of the players, instead of trying to force an offensive philosophy that may or may not work with the current personnel. And that is what makes a great coach.

    I don't think the strength of his arm is the issue.
    Well, yes and no. He has the arm to get the ball pretty far down field. So in that aspect arm strength is not an issue. However, his ball speed is and issue. His deep throws are rainbows, which gives the defenders too much time to adjust and defend.

    I think the 4/33 in the 20-40 yard range is very telling. Over 40 usually means some kind of defensive breakdown, or the receiver gets behind the defender. 20-40 is right in the coverage area, and a slow ball is going to mean more defended passes.

    In order to be successful, Ponder is going to have to be on the exact same page as his receivers. He is going to have to throw to open field long before the receiver, and it is going to have to be to a spot that only the WR can get to. It is not impossible, but it is a lot more difficult than it would be if he was firing it in.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #73
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Great post, and dead on like usual.

    I only want to comment on two parts:


    I am of the opinion that Musgrave called the offense the way he did because of the limitations at QB and WR, not the other way around. In fact, I have said it before, but I think Musgrave was borderline brilliant in the way he devised game plans that allowed us to be marginally successful without a passing attack to speak of.

    Look at the difference in the plays called between Musgrave's Atlanta time and now. They are pretty different, and that is because he adapted his game plan to the abilities of the players, instead of trying to force an offensive philosophy that may or may not work with the current personnel. And that is what makes a great coach.


    Well, yes and no. He has the arm to get the ball pretty far down field. So in that aspect arm strength is not an issue. However, his ball speed is and issue. His deep throws are rainbows, which gives the defenders too much time to adjust and defend.

    I think the 4/33 in the 20-40 yard range is very telling. Over 40 usually means some kind of defensive breakdown, or the receiver gets behind the defender. 20-40 is right in the coverage area, and a slow ball is going to mean more defended passes.

    In order to be successful, Ponder is going to have to be on the exact same page as his receivers. He is going to have to throw to open field long before the receiver, and it is going to have to be to a spot that only the WR can get to. It is not impossible, but it is a lot more difficult than it would be if he was firing it in.
    Two great posts. Both spot on.
    I can recall people saying the receivers weren't getting open last year. There is some element of truth to that. But when given the camera angle to see it, I recall seeing receivers coming open but Ponder was to late to see it, and often pulled the ball back down and ran because the receivers were covered up again. He couldn't anticipate the receiver coming open and therefore wouldn't pull the trigger and deliver the ball.
    That anticipation should improve this year, but woeful inaccuracy could render the point moot.

    Ponder was definitely the limitation on what Musgrave could do. I don't think it will work this year to just hand off to AP. Green Bay found a way to limit gains in the outside runs during the play off game, and other teams will follow suit. AP will still get his yards but the team will need a passing game to do well.

    I wonder what Musgrave could do with Cassel at the helm. We will catch a glimpse in pre-season.

    I honestly believe this team could be very good with good QB play.

  4. #74
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    I wonder what Musgrave could do with Cassel at the helm. We will catch a glimpse in pre-season.
    I am a bit curious too. Of course, the most popular player on a team is always the backup QB. But I think that Cassel is better than his last season...

    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    I honestly believe this team could be very good with good QB play.
    Agreed 100%. Fair or not, the success of this year rests on Ponder's shoulders. We need him to step up this year. I think there is a chance, but if he does not, then we need to move on.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #75
    gregair13's Avatar
    gregair13 is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    14,579
    If Ponder does not pan out, we will be wondering for another few seasons what to do at QB.
    We're bringing purple back.

  6. #76
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,278
    Quote Originally Posted by gregair13 View Post
    If Ponder does not pan out, we will be wondering for another few seasons what to do at QB.
    They should have cap room(assuming they don't resign Allen and Williams) to go after a free agent next year. Team is primed for success now, they can't wait 3 more years to see if the next project pans out.

  7. #77
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,869
    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I am of the opinion that Musgrave called the offense the way he did because of the limitations at QB and WR, not the other way around. In fact, I have said it before, but I think Musgrave was borderline brilliant in the way he devised game plans that allowed us to be marginally successful without a passing attack to speak of.

    Look at the difference in the plays called between Musgrave's Atlanta time and now. They are pretty different, and that is because he adapted his game plan to the abilities of the players, instead of trying to force an offensive philosophy that may or may not work with the current personnel. And that is what makes a great coach.
    I do think Musgrave tries to adopt to his roster, but also likes the short horizontal passing game. He did say this when he was hired:

    Musgrave was asked whether the Vikings line will continue to use zone-blocking schemes.

    "There goes that question again -- which a lot of coaches make that mistake too, at least they have historically -- of thinking of schemes and plays that they prefer without thinking about the players that have to execute them," he said. "We’re going to do a fantastic job of putting our guys in the schemes that fit their talents."
    On the arm strength/ball velocity point. I agree that Ponder is probably a below average QB in respect to how much velocity he puts on his throws, which means he does need to anticipate better than a guy like Favre or Flacco. But I don't see him being much different than Brees or Peyton. He also needs receivers that will win contested battles (like most QB's). In the long run, if he can figure it out, this will probably serve him better. He will need to figure it out quick though, the NFL tryout is coming to an end.

  8. #78
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,869
    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    They should have cap room(assuming they don't resign Allen and Williams) to go after a free agent next year. Team is primed for success now, they can't wait 3 more years to see if the next project pans out.
    That is always the problem with QB's. The only sure things will cost you a king's ransom, everything else is a gamble. Cutler might be available soon.

  9. #79
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    But I don't see him being much different than Brees or Peyton.
    OK boys and girls, I think we have an official nomination for the Common Man's most preposterous statement of the year.lol

  10. #80
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,869
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    But I don't see him being much different than Brees or Peyton.
    OK boys and girls, I think we have an official nomination for the Common Man's most preposterous statement of the year.lol
    Arm strength mayor, nothing else. How long did you last anyways.

Page 8 of 14 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •