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  1. #31
    vikinggreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Who do you qualify as his peers? Last years class? Lets see if they are a flash in the pan (ala Newton, Sanchez, Bradford, etc etc etc) or are they the real deal. Heck there is even talk that Dalton isn't gonna make just like there is talk of Freeman is a bust.

    Even though I agree that he probably didn't progress as much as most fans want him to, how do you really quantify how fast he should progress? Pretty hard when he should still be sitting on the bench IMHO just like they used to grow them.

    For me, I look at indicators were it counts and not total yards like that is some sort of benchmark. Those indicators can be found if one looks for yourself or if one sees articles such as these (which don't seem to get populated on here to much)......



    Scout.com: Ponder produces best in the red zone

    Could it be that the main source of info like this doesn't post it because he's a bit skewed on the youngster? LOL....

    Anyways, sure seems like a very nice progression, especially were it counts, if you ask me. Were are the talented "Peers" that you speak of in that area?
    You stopped before his downside
    It may seem surprising on a team with the leagues pre-eminent running back that Ponder would be a top-10 guy in the key statistical categories of red zone passing. However, there was a downside. A big downside. Ponder was near the very bottom of the league in one critical category interceptions. Only two quarterbacks threw more Stafford and Mark Sanchez.
    So he could be a top-10 guy if it wasn't for a problem and again there are consistency issues.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Teblow is there to play TE, not QB. Seriously, I can't believe you asked me that question.
    I can. You're the one claiming QB's need more time & can't become HOFers over night. Perhaps he needs just as much starting time as you feel Ponder needs. Afterall, QB's don't all progress at the same rate. That is your way of thinking on QB's.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    I can. You're the one claiming QB's need more time & can't become HOFers over night. Perhaps he needs just as much starting time as you feel Ponder needs. Afterall, QB's don't all progress at the same rate. That is your way of thinking on QB's.
    That is my thinking on QBs. At least the ones I consider QB's. As of yet Teblow hasn't shown me any indication that he can play QB at this level.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikinggreg View Post
    You stopped before his downside So he could be a top-10 guy if it wasn't for a problem and again there are consistency issues.
    I readily point out his consistency in almost all posts. Just because I left it off of one post and you caught it.....

    I forget, I need to bring my "A" game to this site.

    If you look at his issues (inconsistency) you will see (mostly focused on INT's) that his 12 wasn't really that bad compared to the other QB's.....

    2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

    And then, if you break it down further......8 of them came in 4 games (Tenn-2/Wash-2/Ari-2/GB-2) of which we split 2 Wins/2 Losses. A real good indicator that we play as a team and that his mistakes won't necessarily kills us each and every week.

    Christian Ponder Game By Game Stats and Performance - Minnesota Vikings - ESPN

    Then again, we could have him throwing INT's at the rate of the guys ahead of him (Bree's, Romo, Luck, Stafford, Weeden, Dalton, Eli, Rivers, Palmer, Cutler, Ryan, Bradford.....
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    For me, I look at indicators were it counts and not total yards like that is some sort of benchmark. Those indicators can be found if one looks for yourself or if one sees articles such as these (which don't seem to get populated on here to much)......

    Scout.com: Ponder produces best in the red zone

    Could it be that the main source of info like this doesn't post it because he's a bit skewed on the youngster? LOL....

    Anyways, sure seems like a very nice progression, especially were it counts, if you ask me. Were are the talented "Peers" that you speak of in that area?
    One has to be careful on how those stats are used/interpreted. First off, Ponders average pass inside the 20 was 3 yards with his longest being 9 yards. Secondly, just because he ranked 6th for completions inside the 20 doesnt make him better. If he throws 3-4 completions in the red zone before they score a TD or have to kick a FG & other QBs throw 1 or 2 passes & there in, how does that make Ponder a better QB?. It doesnt. It just means he completed 44 passes in the red zone out of 75 attempts (59%).

    But youre going to say, But what about Ponder tieing for 8th with 18 redzone TDs? . Again, a lot of other QBs may have fewer within the redzone due to the fact they score their TDs from outside of the redzone. That is why when it comes to number of TDs thrown, Ponder ranks 23rd amongst all QBs with 18 while the top 12 threw between 26 & 43 TDs.

    What Scout also fails to mention, as do you, is how Ponder ranks for TDs thrown from outside the redzone. Can you say Dead Fucking Last? Ponder threw 18 TDs last year. According to Scout.com all 18 were from within the redzone, 14 of those 18 came from within the 10 yard line. That means 0 not even 1 TD was thrown from outside the redzone, including any of the 3 40+ yarders you like to brag about went for a TD.

    Youre right, by bringing up the TDs Ponder threw inside the 20 & ignoring TDs thrown outside the redzone, his article is skewed on the youngster.
    Last edited by singersp; 07-04-2013 at 07:55 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    If you look at his issues (inconsistency) you will see (mostly focused on INT's) that his 12 wasn't really that bad compared to the other QB's.....

    2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN
    Instead of looking at just the number of INT's, you might want to look at the TD to INT ratio or the number of passes to INT ratio & consider the average distance thrown per pass.
    Last edited by singersp; 07-03-2013 at 11:10 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Instead of looking at just the number of INT's, you might want to look at the TD to INT ratio or the number of passes to INT ratio & consider the average distance thrown per pass.
    I think its pretty safe to say that the average distance thrown per pass is heavily influenced by the coaches decisions that were based on who there was to throw to and how open they might be.

    And, I agree, the TD/INT ratio is one of the most important stats for QBs...it is also one that is very likely to improve when you're talking about a guy with only 1.5 years of experience who has finally been given better outside weapons to work with.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

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  8. #38
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    I just want to see us take more shots at the end zone once we get inside the 50 and to the 35. It seems for years we see teams doing that sort of thing and for the one year brett was here he would do it but other than that we get past the 50 then try to run the ball, stall out inside the 30 once the defense tightens up and then settle for the FG.

    For the love of god when you cross the 45 take one shot down the sidelines to give the defense something to think about.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    I just want to see us take more shots at the end zone once we get inside the 50 and to the 35. It seems for years we see teams doing that sort of thing and for the one year brett was here he would do it but other than that we get past the 50 then try to run the ball, stall out inside the 30 once the defense tightens up and then settle for the FG.

    For the love of god when you cross the 45 take one shot down the sidelines to give the defense something to think about.
    Better be careful, Marty will think you're wishing for the aerial attack of the late 90s. Pretty soon he'll be posting how you wished we have a receiving fullback.

  10. #40
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    Considering how tepid our passing game has been for the majority of the last decade I would have no problem with anyone who wanted to see us go after the type of talent that led to that offense.

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