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  1. #21
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Back to the original posters question.....How in the can can you really project if Ponder isn't going to pan out this year?

    Do you think he isn't going to progress like he has done the last 2 years?
    Do you expect him to become some sort of HOF'r after 3 years?

    Comeon people, QB's just don't roll in off the street and become perfect leaders of a team at this level. Sure we've see a few of them come in and excite the heck out of us with their instant flash but they only let you down the next year after D-coords get some tape on them.

    Christian has done exactly what most thought he would do regardless of were he was picked. Show that he was a 2 or 3 year project that should be learning from the bench instead of from the field. And after he wasn't allowed to learn from the bench he played very inconsistently like any other would for cripes sake.

    And now when I come to spend some time on PPO (which I cherish), I find out that you all want to move on to some kid that you want to draft next year who won't have any more success or make an fewer mistakes in this offense than your current QB has over the last 2 years.

    Buck up people. We are watching a QB learn his job on the fly. He's going to make mistakes. Its the nature of the beast but he will keep getting better and better each and every year he is given a chance.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #22
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Be careful what you say. I'm always watching. My opinions on Cook were always that the Coaches shouldn't have started him. One of the many things I pinged on the Chiller for that most of you ignored.
    Be careful what I say? Hell, it gets lonely here and if I have to post that drivel to get your ass back here you can bet I am going to do it. It;s not the same with you not posting my friend.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Back to the original posters question.....How in the can can you really project if Ponder isn't going to pan out this year?

    Do you think he isn't going to progress like he has done the last 2 years?
    Do you expect him to become some sort of HOF'r after 3 years?

    Comeon people, QB's just don't roll in off the street and become perfect leaders of a team at this level. Sure we've see a few of them come in and excite the heck out of us with their instant flash but they only let you down the next year after D-coords get some tape on them.
    Let us down?

    Do you think they aren't going to progress like you think Ponder or other QB's have?
    Do you expect them to become some sort of HOF'r after 3 years?

    How many more year do you think the Jets should stick with Sanchez? He should be nearing his prime this year

    How many years do you think it will be before Tebow takes Brady's job?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Buck up people. We are watching a QB learn his job on the fly. He's going to make mistakes. Its the nature of the beast but he will keep getting better and better each and every year he is given a chance.
    Just getting better each year isn't enough in this league. He also needs to progress at a rate that is comparable to his peers. Like it or not, as a starting quarterback in the NFL, his peers are a pretty damn talented group of people.

    Last year he did get better compared to his rookie year. There is (or there should be) no debate on that. However, some will say that he did not progress as much as he should have, and some will say that he did. This early in his career I can respect both opinions. I personally feel that he did not progress as much as he should have, but I am willing to give him another chance. It is a short leash though. Sitting behind him is a QB who is only 3 years removed to a helluva season...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Just getting better each year isn't enough in this league. He also needs to progress at a rate that is comparable to his peers. Like it or not, as a starting quarterback in the NFL, his peers are a pretty damn talented group of people.

    Last year he did get better compared to his rookie year. There is (or there should be) no debate on that. However, some will say that he did not progress as much as he should have, and some will say that he did. This early in his career I can respect both opinions. I personally feel that he did not progress as much as he should have, but I am willing to give him another chance. It is a short leash though. Sitting behind him is a QB who is only 3 years removed to a helluva season...
    And 1 year removed from a helluva bad season.

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Just getting better each year isn't enough in this league. He also needs to progress at a rate that is comparable to his peers. Like it or not, as a starting quarterback in the NFL, his peers are a pretty damn talented group of people.

    Last year he did get better compared to his rookie year. There is (or there should be) no debate on that. However, some will say that he did not progress as much as he should have, and some will say that he did. This early in his career I can respect both opinions. I personally feel that he did not progress as much as he should have, but I am willing to give him another chance. It is a short leash though. Sitting behind him is a QB who is only 3 years removed to a helluva season...
    Who do you qualify as his peers? Last years class? Lets see if they are a flash in the pan (ala Newton, Sanchez, Bradford, etc etc etc) or are they the real deal. Heck there is even talk that Dalton isn't gonna make just like there is talk of Freeman is a bust.

    Even though I agree that he probably didn't progress as much as most fans want him to, how do you really quantify how fast he should progress? Pretty hard when he should still be sitting on the bench IMHO just like they used to grow them.

    For me, I look at indicators were it counts and not total yards like that is some sort of benchmark. Those indicators can be found if one looks for yourself or if one sees articles such as these (which don't seem to get populated on here to much)......

    However, when it came to red-zone passing – passes thrown inside the opponent’s 20-yard line, only six NFL quarterbacks threw more passes than Ponder’s 75 – Drew Brees (102), Matt Ryan (92), Peyton Manning (88), Tom Brady (87), Matthew Stafford (87) and Eli Manning (84).

    How impressive is that number? He tied with two other quarterbacks with 75 red zone passes – Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo.

    It doesn’t end there for Ponder. His 44 red zone completions ranked sixth, behind only Brees (66), Ryan (59), Peyton Manning (52), Brady (52) and Rodgers (47) – pretty rare air indeed, since four of them have won Super Bowls and the other (Ryan) is playoff-tested.

    Perhaps most surprising was that Ponder threw 18 red zone touchdowns, which tied him for eighth among NFL QBs. The only quarterbacks who threw more were the same usual cast of suspects and a couple of new faces – Brees (34), Peyton Manning (28), Rodgers (26), Ryan (25), Brady (24), Josh Freeman (21) and Andy Dalton (20).
    Scout.com: Ponder produces best in the red zone

    Could it be that the main source of info like this doesn't post it because he's a bit skewed on the youngster? LOL....

    Anyways, sure seems like a very nice progression, especially were it counts, if you ask me. Were are the talented "Peers" that you speak of in that area?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Let us down?

    Do you think they aren't going to progress like you think Ponder or other QB's have?
    Do you expect them to become some sort of HOF'r after 3 years?

    How many more year do you think the Jets should stick with Sanchez? He should be nearing his prime this year

    How many years do you think it will be before Tebow takes Brady's job?
    What?

    Sanchez. I'm torn on Sanchez. First, is it him alone or is it because he has no OL other than a C, no running game and absolutely no one to throw to? Pretty tough to blame it all on him, well unless you go by what ESPN uses as a bench mark.

    Teblow is there to play TE, not QB. Seriously, I can't believe you asked me that question.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Who do you qualify as his peers? Last years class? Lets see if they are a flash in the pan (ala Newton, Sanchez, Bradford, etc etc etc) or are they the real deal. Heck there is even talk that Dalton isn't gonna make just like there is talk of Freeman is a bust.

    Even though I agree that he probably didn't progress as much as most fans want him to, how do you really quantify how fast he should progress? Pretty hard when he should still be sitting on the bench IMHO just like they used to grow them.

    For me, I look at indicators were it counts and not total yards like that is some sort of benchmark. Those indicators can be found if one looks for yourself or if one sees articles such as these (which don't seem to get populated on here to much)......



    Scout.com: Ponder produces best in the red zone

    Could it be that the main source of info like this doesn't post it because he's a bit skewed on the youngster? LOL....

    Anyways, sure seems like a very nice progression, especially were it counts, if you ask me. Were are the talented "Peers" that you speak of in that area?
    I consider his peers among all of the starting QBs in the league at the same point in their respective careers. Yes, it is a high bar to set, but that is what it takes to be a successful starting QB in the NFL today. Did he progress enough for me to believe that he will be a top ten QB in the next few years? Because that is what I think we need to have to win a super bowl. While it is possible to win one without one (aka Dilfer), the vast majority have had one. That is how the game is won in this day and age.

    Ponder DID progress, no arguments here. In fact, he progressed nicely, especially in a lot of important areas. I don't think he really regressed in any. But again, I ask... did he progress enough for me to feel like he will be a top ten QB in the next few years. I do not think he did. And that means he has his work cut out for him this year.

    Is it possible? Yes. Do I hope he breaks out? Absolutely! Do I think it will happen? Sadly no. And if it doesn't then we need to continue looking. I don't want to turn him into another 5 year experiment like we did with Jackson. I would rather move on and take the risk of moving on too quickly, than wait and waste any more seasons than necessary.

    He will start the season as the starter. It is his job to lose.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    And 1 year removed from a helluva bad season.
    Exactly. Anyone who thinks Cassell will be any better than Ponder is talking crazy. Don't get me wrong, I think he can come in and be just as successful as Ponder this year but to what end? Thats about all your gonna get out of that cat. Unlike younger QB's, my decision has been made on the guy about years 6 or 7 vice what some want to do with Ponder (year 3).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Be careful what I say? Hell, it gets lonely here and if I have to post that drivel to get your ass back here you can bet I am going to do it. It;s not the same with you not posting my friend.
    LOL, your way to kind. We are down to 2 at work now. Doesn't leave me much idle time when we had 8 of us.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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