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  1. #91
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    If Christian Ponder Doesnt Pan Out...

    No. You don't use all your picks to get one player. You use all your picks to build the roster depth and you live within your means when it comes to spending to fill a spot. There will be starters available in the draft and in free agency if ponder blows it. We need to find those players if necessary and for the right price..

  2. #92
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    If Christian Ponder Doesnt Pan Out...

    What he said.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    This could very well improve this year, especially if the team puts more focus on it. But I think we can all agree that it needs to improve.
    Agree.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharperImage View Post
    Gentlemen Gentlemen The point is, IF Ponder does not pan out like I have a feeling he wont, would you rather do a blockbuster trade for Bridgewater, or the top QB in the 2014 class? Or trade for a potential franchise QB like Ryan Mallett or Kirk Cousins.

    The thing is the Vikings took a flyer on a QB that they thought was smart, accurate, and played in a pro style offense. Ponder was a "Safe" pick to become an ok-decent starter! but they forgot about the number 1 thing when it comes to drafting NFL players... INTANGIBLES. Ponder doesnt have "IT" he never did even in college. Which is why he was projected as a good backup/average starter. The vikings thought they could take him and run the ball all day and do 5-15 yard passes all the way down the field. I believe they are realizing that this is a 70% passing league. I believe this year we are going to let Ponder fling the ball all around the field and see if he can blossom into a Good QB like Drew Brees did! Remember when Drew was a noodle arm QB in San Diego?

    This team is honestly in great shape for the future. We have a TON of YOUNG talent. I think if we resign all our young talent and have ANOTHER good 2014 draft class we are set for the next 5-10 years to be good. We don't have many holes left to fill. NT/G/SS/OLB is all the "holes" we got left. Ponder has been given the keys to a team with a bright future, and HE KNOWS if he doesnt atleast show signs of becoming a top 16 QB he is out.

    I just want to know what does the team do? The team is young enough to bring in a Rookie QB, but then thats another 2-3 years we are robbing of Adrian Peterson. OR we can trade for Ryan Mallett, my number 1 choice, and the guy I think we shouldve drafted back in 2011 anyway.. or Kirk Cousins from 2012.. Iono what we will do, but I wish we wouldve brought in a decent QB to make Ponder earn it instead of trying to boost his confidence by protecting him.. I think winning a competition is a better confidence booster than someone just handing you something.
    It always amazes me when people say a player hasn't earned anything because he hasn't had what is perceived as a challenge to his spot.

    Truth is, Ponder was selected because he fit the offensive scheme and the staff thought they had a vet (not many available) that could lead this team for a couple of years while he learned. Now that didn't pan out, he was forced to learn on the field, which is never a good thing and has lost the fan base because of it.

    Doesn't mean he won't become a good dang QB, he probably will, but forever he will be tainted in the fan bases eyes because of his first few years. Happens to all players though. Just look at how great Jamarca played at his position last year and what the fan bases opinion is of him now.

    As to your other candidates.....What has Mallet done other than get drafted late because he is slow of foot and has an even slower release. How in the heck would either of those two traights work out in a offense were you have to move around in the pocket/move the pocket and have a quick release?

    Kirk Cousins showed some flash last year, but so did RGIII......question is, were they both that good or did the team and the coaching staff make them look that good?

    In the end, you can look statistically (have to have a blinds eye to total yards) and see that Ponder excelled in the areas you want him to in this offense and that over time he will continue to get better.

    Starting over will be just another "Starting over" kindof scenario that will just keep us all waiting (and discussing) for the next best thing.

    By the way, I think your guy Bridgewater is just another flash in the pan like Newton, RGIII and Wilson. No team has, nor will they ever win a SB without a true pocket passer. None.

    (Marrdro stands by for the obvious candidates i.e. Young who was mobile and a pocket passer).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Depends on the circumstance for a sub 100 yard game.

    Lets pretend AD gets a quick hit off the first drive for six and the defense comes out and gets a pick six early in the first quarter followed up by a STs return for 6.

    Yup, I think the QB is gonna get very few yards that game as the staff will pound it down the other teams throat for the rest of the game.
    LOL...leave it to Marrdro to dream up the scenario where a sub 100 yard game is not only acceptable, but encouraged! Good point on Brady too...it will be interesting to see if they have the depth to step up if Gronk and Amendola's injury patterns persist and they don't sign somebody faster than our guy Jenkins!!


    Sharper, I feel your desire to give AP a better chance to win now! But, I'm far from sure that Mallet or Cousins, or any rookie is going to be any better next year than Ponder will be after another year of experience, and this one, hopefully, finally, with improved talent at the WR position for the whole season.

    Any one of those other unproven guys would be learning a brand new system, and sure, its easy to hand off to AP, but there is still new language, schemes, routes etc to learn and, as discussed, it is so important in any system and more-so in ours, that the WR and the QB be on exactly the same page in the playbook/route tree.

    And, unfortunately, NT/G/SS/OLB are NOT all the "holes" we got left...for starters, DE! Allen, Robison, and Griffen are all Free Agents to be. I like where Ellison is headed, but Carlson has a lot to prove as our 2nd TE, so that could be a need. Chris Cook and AJ Jefferson are FAs, maybe we need another Corner too. And, less important but still a hole to fill, backup RB.

    So, as much as I agree with you that we have tons of young talent, and AP's age & experience puts us in a win-now position, we still can't afford to mortgage the future for a reach of a QB now. We need to stick with the management plan we have and build for long term, sustained success. Instead of just another flash in the random NFC championship, wouldn't you rather have a Superbowl win or two, and a chance at a dynasty!???

    I really, really like where this team is headed! We've a strong, young nucleus to build upon, and we've gotten to the point where for one season, our only complaint is our starting QB who only has 1.5 years of experience to judge him on...that's not such a bad place to be! There's a real good chance he will improve dramatically in years 3 and 4, specially given the upgrade and development of the pieces around him.

    If not, well, we move on. But even if we draft another QB early next season, we'll likely be starting Cassell at QB, cuz the FA list looks like this: Cutler? Vick? Freeman? Henne? Grossman? And, Cassell will at least have that year of learning the language.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    LOL...leave it to Marrdro to dream up the scenario where a sub 100 yard game is not only acceptable, but encouraged!
    You obviously missed the game last year when that almost happened resulting in a sub 100 yard game (or close to it) by Ponder then.

    Truth is, there were a couple of games were the passing game wasn't needed for most of the game. Most teams would love to shut down their QB and just run the clock out with a running game.

    Heck, they call it milking the clock.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Depends on the circumstance for a sub 100 yard game.

    Lets pretend AD gets a quick hit off the first drive for six and the defense comes out and gets a pick six early in the first quarter followed up by a STs return for 6.

    Yup, I think the QB is gonna get very few yards that game as the staff will pound it down the other teams throat for the rest of the game.
    Even pounding the ball down their throats, I don't see how a sub 100 yard game could be considered a good game for a QB.

    The closest game I could think of in comparison was Jackson's game against AZ in 2008. It was a similar scenario. After the AZ's first drive, Berrian returned a punt 82 yards for a TD. We intercept the ball on AZ's second drive, and Berrian gets behind the defender for a 41 yard TD pass. On the very first play of AZ's third drive, Warner is sacked and fumbles and we recover. Jackson throws a short 6 yard TD pass to Rice.

    At this point we were up 21-0 and there was still 3 minutes left in the first quarter. At this point we went into a pounding running game. Our next TD came in the second quarter, with AD and Chester Taylor combining for 80 of the 91 yards in the drive. Jackson only attempted two passes. One incomplete, and one for the TD from the 11.

    In the end, Jackson still had 157 net yards and 4 TDs. 60 of those yards came on two scoring plays, and the other two TDs were set up by great running or great defense. So there wasn't a lot of passing offense in the game. But even then he still was well over 100. Had he come in less than 100, he would have been crucified. And rightfully so.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Even pounding the ball down their throats, I don't see how a sub 100 yard game could be considered a good game for a QB.
    Who cares about the QB if we win?

    Arizona Cardinals vs. Minnesota Vikings - Box Score - October 21, 2012 - ESPN

    Skelton had 250+, they had a 100 yard receiver and we threw it under 20 times. In the end the QB will get hacked on by the yutz's at ESPN but the reality of it all was that it was a win by a team that doesn't have to rely on one guy like the Packers do.

    I for one love that we have a team that can do that now instead of putting all our eggs onto the QB.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    You obviously missed the game last year when that almost happened resulting in a sub 100 yard game (or close to it) by Ponder then.

    Truth is, there were a couple of games were the passing game wasn't needed for most of the game. Most teams would love to shut down their QB and just run the clock out with a running game.

    Heck, they call it milking the clock.
    There were no games last year in which we had a big enough lead that we could just milk the clock and not try to keep putting it downfield. Every win we had where Ponder was 125 yards or less was decided by a TD or less.

    I assume you are talking about the Rams game, and if you go back and watch that game (I love NFL.com) you should be able to see that he didn't have a good game. It might not have been a bad game (although he did have a couple of drive killing incompletes that allowed St Louis to score twice in the 4th quarter and get within 8), but it was not a good game either. With the way we were running the ball, and the way St Louis was stacking up to stop AD, Ponder should have been able to have some easy completions late in the game.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  10. #100
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    There were no games last year in which we had a big enough lead that we could just milk the clock and not try to keep putting it downfield. Every win we had where Ponder was 125 yards or less was decided by a TD or less.

    I assume you are talking about the Rams game, and if you go back and watch that game (I love NFL.com) you should be able to see that he didn't have a good game. It might not have been a bad game (although he did have a couple of drive killing incompletes that allowed St Louis to score twice in the 4th quarter and get within 8), but it was not a good game either. With the way we were running the ball, and the way St Louis was stacking up to stop AD, Ponder should have been able to have some easy completions late in the game.
    That is the game that I came up with the "Scenario" from. Truth is, I think there was another were we had a KO return and a Punt return (or INT 6) were Ponder just didn't have to throw.

    If I'm the staff and I have a young kid, learning the game, that is having a shacky one at best, I'm not putting the ball in the air if I don't have to. Who cares what the analysts say.

    If, for some reason, it happens again this year, I'm behind the staff 100%, even if Ponder is throwing at a 65-70% completion rate during the season. By the way, I think it will only take a 2 or 3% improvement to get to that rate this year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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