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  1. #21
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    "El" wrote:
    Sorry but a 60,8 % in 1-10 and 54,4 % in 11-20
    ,it is non acceptable by any means....
    No it's not. But when you have predominently 8-9 men in that box & tight coverage, it's more understandable as to why it's that way.

    Keep the defense honest & backed off with a shitload more of those 21-30 yarders & that number will go up.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #22
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    I can't wait to see look out for the first guy to catch for more than a 100 yards in a game since a looong loong time ( 2005 right? )
    Rosie O'Donnell is a dude!

  3. #23
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    "Mr-holland" wrote:
    I can't wait to see look out for the first guy to catch for 100 yards


    El underdog.

  4. #24
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    Your waiting time is over
    El underdog.

  5. #25
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    "singersp" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

    1) Run the ball
    2) Throw the deep bomb.

    They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.
    Exactly what do you mean by "middle of the field? Are you talking 10-20 yards or 21-30? If you are talking 21-30, I'll disagree because that's what T-Jack does best.

    The problem is the coaches don't call enough of those plays or make the necessary adjustments throughout the game. It seems like they almost always come in with a game plan & use it throughout the game whether it's working or not.

    I'll also disagree with your assessment that we throw the deep ball well & that teams think that. In fact, they don't & it's one of the reasons why you see the box stacked.

    Jackson threw 15 deep balls last year, 6 were caught. That's only 40%. Even if you throw in T-Wills two big drops as gimmies, that's still 53%.

    Again, middle of the field, what I think 21-30 yarders are considered, is what he does best. He's 64.3% on those but as I stated earlier, he only threw 56 of them last season.

    On passes that are 1-10 yards, he's 60.8% (He threw 120 of them last year)

    On passes that are 11-20 yards, he's 54.4% (He threw 103 of them last year)

    http://www.nfl.com/players/tarvarisjackson/situationalstats?id=JAC566507

    They need to throw more 21-30 yarders. When you are facing a stacked box & you throw those well, you can force the defense to play more honestly, which should open up the run game.

    His passer rating for the 21-30 range is 90.8.
    I thought that was an interesting stat at first, but I don't believe it is what you actually think it is.
    On closer examination, I believe that it is referring to the number of attempts to that point in the game.
    I couldn't find anything that tracked the completion percentages at varying distances, which is unfortunate because it would be pretty interesting.

    As for strategy for beating teams that load up on the line of scrimmage, the coverage they play will dictate where we need to go.
    If they're playing cover one with the corners in tight man coverage, then we need to be able to attack the edges of the field deep.
    If they're playing the corners loose, essentially in a cover 3, then we need to get the ball underneath and let the receivers do something in the open field.


    Most of our passing plays will be designed so that different routes will be available against different coverages.
    At the end of the day, Tarvaris needs to be able to determine what the other team is doing a lot faster than he was able to last year so he can get the ball to the right guy.

    And as for Tarvaris' accuracy in general, I think it is pretty good.
    His completion percentage should go up with better receivers.
    I really like his deep ball, especially when comparing it to Daunte.
    All he had to do was throw the ball over the correct shoulder and Moss would be able to come up with it, but Culpepper couldn't get that down until 2004.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  6. #26
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    "Overlord" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

    1) Run the ball
    2) Throw the deep bomb.

    They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.
    Exactly what do you mean by "middle of the field? Are you talking 10-20 yards or 21-30? If you are talking 21-30, I'll disagree because that's what T-Jack does best.

    The problem is the coaches don't call enough of those plays or make the necessary adjustments throughout the game. It seems like they almost always come in with a game plan & use it throughout the game whether it's working or not.

    I'll also disagree with your assessment that we throw the deep ball well & that teams think that. In fact, they don't & it's one of the reasons why you see the box stacked.

    Jackson threw 15 deep balls last year, 6 were caught. That's only 40%. Even if you throw in T-Wills two big drops as gimmies, that's still 53%.

    Again, middle of the field, what I think 21-30 yarders are considered, is what he does best. He's 64.3% on those but as I stated earlier, he only threw 56 of them last season.

    On passes that are 1-10 yards, he's 60.8% (He threw 120 of them last year)

    On passes that are 11-20 yards, he's 54.4% (He threw 103 of them last year)

    http://www.nfl.com/players/tarvarisjackson/situationalstats?id=JAC566507

    They need to throw more 21-30 yarders. When you are facing a stacked box & you throw those well, you can force the defense to play more honestly, which should open up the run game.

    His passer rating for the 21-30 range is 90.8.
    I thought that was an interesting stat at first, but I don't believe it is what you actually think it is.
    On closer examination, I believe that it is referring to the number of attempts to that point in the game.
    I couldn't find anything that tracked the completion percentages at varying distances, which is unfortunate because it would be pretty interesting.


    As for strategy for beating teams that load up on the line of scrimmage, the coverage they play will dictate where we need to go.
    If they're playing cover one with the corners in tight man coverage, then we need to be able to attack the edges of the field deep.
    If they're playing the corners loose, essentially in a cover 3, then we need to get the ball underneath and let the receivers do something in the open field.


    Most of our passing plays will be designed so that different routes will be available against different coverages.
    At the end of the day, Tarvaris needs to be able to determine what the other team is doing a lot faster than he was able to last year so he can get the ball to the right guy.

    And as for Tarvaris' accuracy in general, I think it is pretty good.
    His completion percentage should go up with better receivers.
    I really like his deep ball, especially when comparing it to Daunte.
    All he had to do was throw the ball over the correct shoulder and Moss would be able to come up with it, but Culpepper couldn't get that down until 2004.
    LOL! The percentages of completions at those distances is exactly what I gave you. Check the link again.


    Attempts




    Att

    Comp

    Pct

    Attempts 1-10 120 73
    60.8
    Attempts 11-20 103 56
    54.4
    Attempts 21-30 56 36
    64.3
    Attempts 31+
    15
    6
    40.0

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #27
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Overlord" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    Here lies my problem. Teams will not let us get the long bomb on them. So all these reports of TJ hitting the long bomb means nothing to me. I want to see how he is workign the middle of the field. If he still cannot delive the ball on time....then our seasn may be in trouble. In the Skins game. Landry was 25 feet off the ball, playing FS because they knew that we did 2 things well.

    1) Run the ball
    2) Throw the deep bomb.

    They took away both and left the middle wide open and we could not beat them.
    Exactly what do you mean by "middle of the field? Are you talking 10-20 yards or 21-30? If you are talking 21-30, I'll disagree because that's what T-Jack does best.

    The problem is the coaches don't call enough of those plays or make the necessary adjustments throughout the game. It seems like they almost always come in with a game plan & use it throughout the game whether it's working or not.

    I'll also disagree with your assessment that we throw the deep ball well & that teams think that. In fact, they don't & it's one of the reasons why you see the box stacked.

    Jackson threw 15 deep balls last year, 6 were caught. That's only 40%. Even if you throw in T-Wills two big drops as gimmies, that's still 53%.

    Again, middle of the field, what I think 21-30 yarders are considered, is what he does best. He's 64.3% on those but as I stated earlier, he only threw 56 of them last season.

    On passes that are 1-10 yards, he's 60.8% (He threw 120 of them last year)

    On passes that are 11-20 yards, he's 54.4% (He threw 103 of them last year)

    http://www.nfl.com/players/tarvarisjackson/situationalstats?id=JAC566507

    They need to throw more 21-30 yarders. When you are facing a stacked box & you throw those well, you can force the defense to play more honestly, which should open up the run game.

    His passer rating for the 21-30 range is 90.8.
    I thought that was an interesting stat at first, but I don't believe it is what you actually think it is.
    On closer examination, I believe that it is referring to the number of attempts to that point in the game.
    I couldn't find anything that tracked the completion percentages at varying distances, which is unfortunate because it would be pretty interesting.


    As for strategy for beating teams that load up on the line of scrimmage, the coverage they play will dictate where we need to go.
    If they're playing cover one with the corners in tight man coverage, then we need to be able to attack the edges of the field deep.
    If they're playing the corners loose, essentially in a cover 3, then we need to get the ball underneath and let the receivers do something in the open field.


    Most of our passing plays will be designed so that different routes will be available against different coverages.
    At the end of the day, Tarvaris needs to be able to determine what the other team is doing a lot faster than he was able to last year so he can get the ball to the right guy.

    And as for Tarvaris' accuracy in general, I think it is pretty good.
    His completion percentage should go up with better receivers.
    I really like his deep ball, especially when comparing it to Daunte.
    All he had to do was throw the ball over the correct shoulder and Moss would be able to come up with it, but Culpepper couldn't get that down until 2004.
    LOL! The percentages of completions at those distances is exactly what I gave you. Check the link again.


    Attempts





    Att

    Comp

    Pct

    Attempts 1-10 120 73
    60.8
    Attempts 11-20 103 56
    54.4
    Attempts 21-30 56 36
    64.3
    Attempts 31+

    15

    6
    40.0
    Six completed passes of 31+ yards for a total of 50 yards?


    It's referring to the order of attempts in the game.
    That is, the first row is Tarvaris' first 10 attempts in each game.
    Notice that he played in 12 games, each with more than 10 attempts.
    Hence, 120 attempts in the first row.
    He only had three games in which he threw more than 30 passes.
    He threw 33 times against Detroit, 41 times against Washington, and 31 times against Denver.
    That's the 15 passes on attempts 31+.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  8. #28
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    if its referring to the order of attempts in each game, than how can someone possible have 15 attempts at 31+ attempts?
    It just doesn't make sense.
    The stat is pass distance.
    He's 6-15 on passes that are 31 yards or more.

    I'm not sure where you got the 50 yards from either.
    If he had 6 31+ passes, then that is at least 186 yards.

  9. #29
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    "hawaiianvike21" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "hawaiianvike21" wrote:
    i dont like the way that t-jack keeps making those errant throws off his back foot whilel looking like he is taking a jumpshot in basketball. he needs to cut that cr** out now. >
    Were you at camp today?
    You are the first person I have heard that said that TJack is throwing off from his back foot... Hope it isn't continuing.

    All in all I have heard mostly good stuff from camp.
    I listened to the morning practice on KFAN, and from what I heard TJack only had a couple of misses, although they said that he was holding the ball too long in the morning.
    Afternoon, again from KFAN, sounded better.

    Keep in mind that the offense normally takes a little while to get their timing down every training camp.
    Even back in the Culpepper and Moss glory days, the defense usually got the better of them for the first week, and then the offense would come into its own.
    I wouldn't make too much out of the first day of contact practice.
    no i wasnt, but i heard about it and saw one picture of it. forget where.

    and its sad to see it since you think the coaches would rip his helmet off everytim he did that since it usually became a turnover. see
    last years redskins game.
    The back foot pass, or the "jump pass" (which was in the Washington game) actually only happened five or six times out of nearly 300 pass attempts.
    That isn't the biggest concern TJack has.
    I think ripping his helmet off should be reserved for some of his more impactful problems.

    For instance, TJacks mechanics have a tendency to break down when he was under pressure.
    This is not just his foot placement, but his arm motion as well.
    If you watch TJack when he is comfortable in the pocket, he actually have pretty good form and accuracy.
    But on the run... that is a different story.
    I would like to see the coaching staff work on TJack making quicker decisions while in the pocket.
    Find that open man and get the ball to him so he doesn't have to rely on his feet to make something happen.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  10. #30
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    Re: I was very optomistic about the 2008 season until.

    The middle of the field does not refer to a distance. It refers to the area "away from the sidelines" as if where we run quick slants and post routes and such.

    Anyways, I think the deep bomb will definitely be working this year if TJ's accuracy improves. The defense was not the reason for the lack of passins explosiveness last year. TJ was wildly inaccurate and none of our receivers had the ability to go deep, expect for Rice who developed it later in the year.

    This year we have Berrian, whose specialty is as a deep threat. TJ being more accurate is just faith right now but honestly its least of my concerns (coming from someone who is not sold at all on TJ).

    Our running game is so effective that it pulls the defense in and wildly opens up the playaction pass. Defenses will not be able to take the deep bomb from us as long as we are running the ball effectively.

    In regards to TJ's practices, lets see how he performs in the preseason games. For now I'll downplay both his successes and failures.

    Looking at situational stats:
    1. Overlord is correct about the stat breakdown singer posted. THOSE ARE NOT DISTANCES. TJ takes a while to get warmed up so attempts 21-30 are his best. He sucks late in a game where he has been asked to make a lot of throws (31+ attempts).

    2. TJ is great when we are up by a big margin, aka when we are running the ball. Still that is nice, at least he does not make mistakes that let teams back into games. I only remember the Chicago game as a game we could not hold the lead, and that was Dwight Smith's fault.

    3. TJ is awful in the redzone and when we are backed inside our own 20. I can understand the latter because defenses are heavily blitzing to try to get a safety. The red zone performance must improve.

    4. Same goes for TJ's two-minute drill. Receivers are to blame to. D knows were passing and shuts us down. Still that must improve.

    5. TJ is miserable when the game is tied. Miserable. 47.3% completion, 1 TD, 5 INTs. That is unclutch as you can be. It's a tie game! You've got to play better. Get the lead!

    6. TJ did not throw a single INT on grass last year.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

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