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Thread: I miss him...

  1. #41
    whackthepack is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: I miss him...

    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "V-Unit" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Del Rio" wrote:
    "happy camper" wrote:
    If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

    That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

    If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.
    I completely disagree.
    I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

    Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

    The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

    Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

    I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.
    Exactly! For more evidence, look to the NBA, which is advertising individuals right now and not teams. The NBA is not doing nearly as well as the NFL right now and part of the reason is that nobody is focused on TEAM play in that league. Each team has their respective "star" and nobody gives a hoot about the other players.

    When the NBA was doing well, teams, not players, were popular. Yes the bulls had Jordan, but a phenomenal supporting cast as well. Other teams, like the Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, and Rockets were about team play as well. That is what made them good, as well as fun to watch. Now all these teams are reduced to 2 individuals at most, and I could give two hoots about Mcgrady and Yao, or Kobe. I want to see teams excelling through TEAMWORK.
    BS. Just this last Sunday I was at the Timberwolves game with my Grandfather and we were talking about basketball (he's a huge basketball fan). He was just telling me how he loved watching guys like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, etc...

    He NEVER once said, "Boy, I love the way the Celtics managed the game and played as a team".

    And my son has a dozen posters of football players from around the league -NOT ONE team poster.

    So, go on and on telling us about how it SHOULD be, but it's not reallity.

    The NBA can not hold the NFL's jock, who cares how they market. The NFL is more popular than the NBA, MLB and the NHL combined. Why is that? Because of the league and the sport, not the individual players. Fans know that they have a chance each year and that 1 season can make a difference and go to the Superbowl. Players will become popular and teams will be recognized for those players, but 2 years later it can be a whole new group and the fans are cheering for them.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  2. #42
    WisconsinSucks's Avatar
    WisconsinSucks is offline Asst. Coach
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    Re: I miss him...

    The point is you can be a superstar and not be a cancer to your team.

    Manning, Brady, etc. GOOD

    Moss, Owens, etc. BAD

  3. #43
    happy camper's Avatar
    happy camper is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: I miss him...

    Alright. We can argue about the superstar player thing.

    But this point of this thread- you can miss Moss and that doesn't mean you're not a Viking fan. Obviously people are bigger Vikings fans than Moss fans. Otherwise, everyone would have jumped to the Raiders board.

    You can miss a player, and that's not a bad thing.
    "There is good and there is evil. And evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I will not compromise."

  4. #44
    PurplePackerEater is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: I miss him...

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "V-Unit" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Del Rio" wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by happy camper
    If it wern't for players such as Vick, Manning, Ray Lewis, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Tom Brady, Daunte Culpepper.. this league wouldn't be so popular right now.

    That's one reason why this league is so popular. The crop of entertaining players, compared so any other league, is astounding.

    If you think you could take these guys out of the league, and not replace them with equally talented/entertaining personalities, and people would still show up-- you're dreaming.
    I completely disagree.
    I completely agree. History shows exactly what Del is talking about.

    Here is the worn out example. The Patriots have won three SBs in recent years without any superstars. Now some of their names are well known. If there is a team playing the game solidly there will be stars that will emerge. Many times someone is a star for a game and a different person the star for another game etc. Jerseys will still sell. Tickets will still be sold. The game will go on. Some fans will walk, others will join up.

    The superstars are entertaining, more so to some people. There are fans that could live without ever seeing another self-absorbed player walk on the field. That will never happen though, you get young testosterone-laden guys with exorbitant salaries that have been treated like royalty during their athletic careers and some will think they are greater then the organization or sport. Sure, the Ron Mexico's will sell the jerseys but that is only a fraction of the overall picture. There are many football fans that watch the game just for the love of the game.

    Even if the Vikings did have a team full of narcoleptic midgets the marketers would put a different twist on the situation and jersey sales would do fine and the tickets would still sell. Srew the superstars, all replacable. One leaves and another emerges. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be.

    I prefer no superstars on the team. That will never happen though, because cream will rise to the top. I just hope they have the mind and maturity to go along with their athletic prowess.
    Exactly! For more evidence, look to the NBA, which is advertising individuals right now and not teams. The NBA is not doing nearly as well as the NFL right now and part of the reason is that nobody is focused on TEAM play in that league. Each team has their respective "star" and nobody gives a hoot about the other players.

    When the NBA was doing well, teams, not players, were popular. Yes the bulls had Jordan, but a phenomenal supporting cast as well. Other teams, like the Jazz, Pacers, Knicks, and Rockets were about team play as well. That is what made them good, as well as fun to watch. Now all these teams are reduced to 2 individuals at most, and I could give two hoots about Mcgrady and Yao, or Kobe. I want to see teams excelling through TEAMWORK.
    BS. Just this last Sunday I was at the Timberwolves game with my Grandfather and we were talking about basketball (he's a huge basketball fan). He was just telling me how he loved watching guys like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, etc...

    He NEVER once said, "Boy, I love the way the Celtics managed the game and played as a team".

    And my son has a dozen posters of football players from around the league -NOT ONE team poster.

    So, go on and on telling us about how it SHOULD be, but it's not reallity.
    LOL they just talked about this on ESPN.

    Regardless of what your grandaddy tells you, the numbers don't lie. The NBA has been losing revenue year after year. I just heard on ESPN radio that the NBA is getting killed by......wait for it.....NASCAR.

    It's a known fact the NBA revolves around individual play. They suffer for it too. Right in the pocketbook. The NFL on the other hand does not, nor will they ever. Which is exactly why you have rules that limit celebrations in the endzone. Because this is a team sport, where the NFL has decided a team being valued will bring more money then an actual player. The NBA is the exact opposite.
    Imo, the NBA and MLB are hurting because of they don't have a salary cap, which is why I don't watch either of them. Most people dislike sitting through a lop sided game controlled by economics.

    If the NFL didn't, after about 5 3-13 seasons I'd probably start to lose intrest in the Vikings as well.

    Sure, NASCAR is growing in popularity, but I doubt people are literally turning the channel from Basketball to Race Cars. Isn't NASCAR on Sundays anyway? I THINK it is. So, IF NASCAR was "stealing" fans away from another sport, doesn't logic say it would be the NFL?

  5. #45
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: I miss him...

    Killing the NBA in revenue. I never said they were stealing fans. Perhaps the fans that no longer endorse the NBA simply watch college basketball I have no idea. The point was they are losing fans.

    Keep in mind this was on ESPN radio on lunch. That is the only reason I stated it. I understand that the NBA by design almost HAS to be a player sport because there are only 5 guys on the floor and in the NBA one guy can and does take over a game. The NFL isn't quite the same so making the comparison is a stretch. I only made it to show the NBA is not making as much as it used to and the NFL is making more then it ever has, with teams like the Steelers, the Patriots...

    There is something to be said for players putting fans in the seats. I mean we can't argue that. If it wasn't true why would the NFL scheduel a Raiders at Vikings preseason game in Minnesota? If it didn't matter at all they would draw from a hat. There is drama though, that is why. People will tune in to see the drama. I agree with you there.

    What I don't agree with is that is all it is about, because the NFL has vocally tried to steer the sport clear of indivualization and continue to make attempts to focus on team play.

    As for what happy camper said, I haven't seen anyone say you can't cheer for Moss and still be a Vikings fan......I know I sure as hell wasn't saying that. I haven't seen anyone even say you can't miss the guy. All I was discussing is the point Itrey and PPE was discussing about people pay to see players and not coaches .......etc.

    Again I point to 1987 when there was 4 games of mediocre play. People still tuned in, people still paid money. The reason IMO is because the sport is violent. I work hard all day I want to crack a beer open and watch someone run in to someone else at 200 miles an hour ripping his head off. I don't care who it is, just win.

  6. #46
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    Re: I miss him...

    I felt almost the same way, until brad started.

  7. #47
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    Re: I miss him...

    I think we will eventually be standing on our feet again with Williamson and Robinson running deep. Hard not to be failry successful going deep with that kind of side by side speed.
    We can solve poverty today.

  8. #48
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: I miss him...

    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "ltrey33" wrote:
    You have to learn that players don't make franchises, especially in today's world of sports. The odds that Randy was even going to stay as long as he did were against us.

    Sure, I miss seeing the dude catch touchdowns for us too, but that's the past. He and Daunte were here for 7 years and never got the deed done, and I believe it was time to move on.

    I just hate the whole "This guy isn't here anymore, that makes me sad" angle. If you love Moss, go root for the Raiders, if you love Pep go root for the Dolphins. But if you love the Vikings, then it shouldn't matter if they field a team of narcoleptic midgets, you should still root for them and be excited about seeing them play. The players don't matter, the franchise does.
    When was the last time any of you showed up to watch the coaches, managment, and the owner? LMAO! Players sell (the most) tickets -No matter how you slice it!

    For example, say the NFL went on strke....How many people are going to show up at the games to watch NOBODYS? Sure, there'd be some die hards, maybe even you, but it wouldn't last long.

    I'm not picking on you ltrey, just stating this for everyone.
    I'm not talking about a huge turonver like that though. If every player in the NFL up and left, then there would be some fallout, I have no doubts about that. It would certainly take a while to build the fan base back if you lost every star and every guy on a franchise, but I'm referring to the year to year turnover of free agents and trades.

  9. #49
    midgensa's Avatar
    midgensa is offline Jersey Retired Free Kick Specialist 3 Champion
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    Re: I miss him...

    Another one of these threads huh ...
    I do miss him ... but for different reasons ... I LOVE having the villian on my team ... I love having the guy others hate and talk smack about and then watching him beat them and they can do nothing about it other than whine (I also happen to be a SF Giants fan and have to deal with the biggest villian of them all).
    I miss the swagger and the arrogance of our offense with Moss ... but I understand how time goes and that sometimes changes happen.
    I think Moss is the most talented wideout to ever play and already one of the top 5 to ever play the position ... but I don't think dwelling on his leaving is a very healthy thing to do.
    I think that Daunte is an amazingly talented quarterback and will likely flourish under someone like Saban ... but dwelling on his loss gets me nowhere either ...
    The future snuck up on us quickly with two monster trades ... but I gladly look toward the future and will avoid dwelling on the past.

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