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  1. #21
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rage4Order View Post
    If any of you think conspiracies don't exist, then you need to go back to school and learn your history. This country was founded via a conspiracy. Every great nation or civilization was felled by a conspiracy. And if you really think that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy, then you do NOT pay attention. Zapruder film is rock solid evidence that shot came from front right. So don't call people conspiracy nuts, which is a mainstream media thing to call people. Conspiracy' s do exist. Go read about standard oil and Prescott Bush. Tell me they weren't conspiring to do bad things to this country. Standard Oil was dissolved because of national security issues. Its all out there for people to see and read. But all the sheeple have no time, too entertained by their idiot box.
    Great name! Are you a queensryche fan, or is that just a coincidence?

  2. #22
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rage4Order View Post
    If any of you think conspiracies don't exist, then you need to go back to school and learn your history. This country was founded via a conspiracy. Every great nation or civilization was felled by a conspiracy. And if you really think that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy, then you do NOT pay attention. Zapruder film is rock solid evidence that shot came from front right. So don't call people conspiracy nuts, which is a mainstream media thing to call people. Conspiracy' s do exist. Go read about standard oil and Prescott Bush. Tell me they weren't conspiring to do bad things to this country. Standard Oil was dissolved because of national security issues. Its all out there for people to see and read. But all the sheeple have no time, too entertained by their idiot box.
    Of course some conspiracies exist. However...

    Some conspiracies exist != everything is a conspiracy.

    I will give you Standard Oil. I personally don't think that Kennedy was a conspiracy (and the Zapruder film has been used as 'evidence' on both sides), but I can at least accept the possibility that something else was in play. I don't label people who look at either as conspiracy nuts, even if I don't agree with some of their assertions.

    People who think we didn't actually land on the moon are conspiracy nuts. People who think that the US Government used explosives to bring down the Twin Towers are conspiracy nuts.

    People who think that the mass murder of 20 children and 6 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary was contrived by political parties who want to further gun control legislation are conspiracy nuts. Especially when their primary 'evidence' is a mixture of inaccurate media reports that surfaced in the first two hours of the event.

    So basically the term conspiracy nut doesn't refer to anyone who believes in conspiracies. It refers to people who look for conspiracies and believe them regardless of the plausibility of their 'evidence'. It refers to people who only accept information that supports their view as fact, labeling all other information as 'mainstream media lies.'

    Labeling people who disagree with you as sheeple, and accusing them of being uneducated or too entertained by their idiot box shows closed mindedness and an unwillingness to give credit to a disagreeing viewpoint.
    Also, go watch the Kennedy conspiracy speech as well as Eisenhower's farewell address.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazz View Post
    Mainstream media is the government mouth piece, in other words, state run.
    ...
    sigh...

    While I respect both you and your opinions, here is where I have to draw the line and back out of this thread. There is sadly no hope for consensus if you start with that as a fundamental belief.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #24
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    sigh...

    While I respect both you and your opinions, here is where I have to draw the line and back out of this thread. There is sadly no hope for consensus if you start with that as a fundamental belief.

    I realize this upsets people, however. Did they, or did they not sell the Iraq war to the American people? An unjust war that was built on lies and has killed more then 500,000 people. Did they not just try to do the same thing in Syria?

    You definitely shouldn't look into any of the things I've mentioned, and you definitely shouldn't read Bill Clinton's mentor, Carroll Quigley's book, Tragedy and Hope.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazz View Post
    I realize this upsets people, however. Did they, or did they not sell the Iraq war to the American people? An unjust war that was built on lies and has killed more then 500,000 people. Did they not just try to do the same thing in Syria?

    You definitely shouldn't look into any of the things I've mentioned, and you definitely shouldn't read Bill Clinton's mentor, Carroll Quigley's book, Tragedy and Hope.
    Apologies to others as this thread has been derailed and I am partially to blame. And it is fun to discuss topics like this when everyone stays civil.

    With that said, Chazz, I don't disagree in regards to the Iraq war. Unjust or not, the reasons for going to war were falsely portrayed. I think almost everybody knows at this point that the war was more about politics and oil and the international economic advantage to not having a stable Middle East than it was regarding weapons of mass destruction. Hell, I think most people knew it when the war started too. That is probably the worst kept secret in the history of conspiracies...

    But outside of Fox News, I can't think of any media outlet that fully embraced the reasons set forth for the war. This is where the the argument of the mainstream media being state run falls apart - because they only walk the company line when popular opinion is in line with the government. THAT is what really drives the media. The main goal of the media isn't to inform people. That is one of their goals of course, after all, that lies at the heart of journalism. But the main objective of the media outlets is to produce something that people want to consume. It is marketing that drives the media.

    I understand that it can appear at times that the government is influencing what the media is reporting, but it has more to do with consumerism than state direction.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rage4Order View Post
    If any of you think conspiracies don't exist, then you need to go back to school and learn your history. This country was founded via a conspiracy. Every great nation or civilization was felled by a conspiracy. And if you really think that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy, then you do NOT pay attention. Zapruder film is rock solid evidence that shot came from front right. So don't call people conspiracy nuts, which is a mainstream media thing to call people. Conspiracy' s do exist. Go read about standard oil and Prescott Bush. Tell me they weren't conspiring to do bad things to this country. Standard Oil was dissolved because of national security issues. Its all out there for people to see and read. But all the sheeple have no time, too entertained by their idiot box.
    I am sorry but you are wrong. ballistics would dictate that the bullet came from the back and left of center. The entry wound is always smaller than the exit wound. There was a small hole in the back of Kennedy's head left of center and that is why you see the front right part of his head explode as the bullet ripped through his head and out the front. You are correct though that the bullet could not have come from Oswald's gun.

    If you listen to the gun shots one striking sound perplexes me, the third shot sounds different than the first two. I believe that the Secret service accidentally shot the president and could not or would not tell the public the truth.
    Last edited by tarkenton10; 03-04-2014 at 10:27 AM.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  7. #27
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    My thoughts on this thread...

    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  8. #28
    vikesrgreat2 is offline Starter
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    It never fails to amaze me on how passionate people become with their opinions about horrible events in our lives (e.g. the JFK assassination, the Iraq war, the Sandy Hook school shooting, other shootings...). I would be more than willing to offer my opinions on these issues that generated HUGE commentary, but they were not the purpose of the original post on this topic.

    Regarding this young TE, I think we do not need upgrades at the TE position, so we shouldn't have to worry about him (unless he falls through the draft and becomes a value-added practice squad player). He may be a better tryout fit with a mature team with a solid locker room and a need for a TE. Green Bay comes to mind for me here.

  9. #29
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Apologies to others as this thread has been derailed and I am partially to blame. And it is fun to discuss topics like this when everyone stays civil.

    With that said, Chazz, I don't disagree in regards to the Iraq war. Unjust or not, the reasons for going to war were falsely portrayed. I think almost everybody knows at this point that the war was more about politics and oil and the international economic advantage to not having a stable Middle East than it was regarding weapons of mass destruction. Hell, I think most people knew it when the war started too. That is probably the worst kept secret in the history of conspiracies...

    But outside of Fox News, I can't think of any media outlet that fully embraced the reasons set forth for the war. This is where the the argument of the mainstream media being state run falls apart - because they only walk the company line when popular opinion is in line with the government. THAT is what really drives the media. The main goal of the media isn't to inform people. That is one of their goals of course, after all, that lies at the heart of journalism. But the main objective of the media outlets is to produce something that people want to consume. It is marketing that drives the media.

    I understand that it can appear at times that the government is influencing what the media is reporting, but it has more to do with consumerism than state direction.
    Fox championed the charge, while the others worked on selling the anti-war leaning people on it being an unfortunate necessity. A type of good cop, bad cop ploy. Of course, I believe the Democrats and Republicans are just opposite wings on the same bird of prey. One side screws you one way, you run to the other side and they screw you the other way. If I had my way I would dissolve ALL political parties and make people stand on their own merits, instead of standing on a platform.

    I admit, mainstream media isn't state run, at least not in the traditional sense. This is a hi-tech 21st century model. You say it is consumerism, and I respectfully disagree. There is a very sizable audience to be had in covering things like Sandy Hook, Aurora, 911, Boston bombing, etc, being an inside job. If they covered these things they would get massive ratings, likely much higher then they get now. For example, there was a nationwide protest against GMO's and Monsanto with 1,000's taking to the streets in every big city and 100's in every small/smaller city across the nation. Had the media covered this their ratings would of went through the roof! This is where the consumerism theory falls flat.

    if it isn't consumerism, then what? The next thing down the line to consider, I believe, is that it is the sponsors and advertisers that drive them. So then, who are the biggest sponsors/advertisers? There is big oil, big pharma, big agra(Monsanto), the biggest of them are the big banks and the military industrial complex. These are the same people that put almost everybody who is in Washington where they are, who lobby(pay-off) congress and the president to do their bidding. There for, the same people who control media also control Washington. This puts, and keeps the media and the state on the same course looking for the same outcome. A sophisticated form of state run media.

    There are only 6 corporations that control essentially all media. Disney, Viacom, News Corps, CBS, Comcast and Time Warner. With Time Warner and Comcast recently merging, bringing that number down to 5. That seems relatively centralized to me.

  10. #30
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    Look up JFK smoking gun, its a documentary that alleges a secret service agent in the car behind JFK got knocked over when the car came to an stop, his AR-15 went off and THAT was the shot that took JFK's head off. The first 2 shots were, in fact, made by Oswald.

    It explains why the angles the Warren Commission stood by are off, why there was indeed a cover up (the secret service had NO intention of telling the world they shot the guy they were supposed to protect), and just makes sense.

    The Documentary takes you through it step by step, and the people involved in explaining it are NOT wackos, but instead men of great repute.

    After I watched that on the History channel, followed by a discussion show, I felt for the first time I understood ALL the discrepancies that surrounded the assassination...right down to why people on the ground smelled gun powder, when they should not have if Oswald was the only shooter.

    That is a bigger stretch then most conspiracies. Did they happen to talk about E. Howard Hunt's death bed confession to his son?

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