Thread: I can't hold it back anymore (Besides, I miss PPO)

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

OK.

Just to add a little different perspective to the thread-



As you are calling for Musgrave to be fired, for the team to draft WR's and for the QB to be sacked I would like to point out that our former OC that we couldn't get any production from created a scheme that scored more points against our defense than any other defense they faced this season.

Their rookie QB who is in his first season starting and has less than half the starts of Ponder had no trouble moving the ball against our defense throwing to a WR that we didn't want to keep and some other no name guys while our QB mustered like 44 yards passing in the game.

Our franchise LT and revamped OL that is full of high picks was terrible and were responsible for a 44 yard passing game while Seattle, who has no franchise LT like we supposedly couldn't function without and had 2 starters out injured still got the job done against our DL and won the game.

Boys and Girls, Our problem isn't with a lack of talent, it is a result of decades of turmoil in the ownership that has resulted in several ownership changes and a loss in focus on building the organization from top to bottom culminating in the sale to Wilf who has absolutely no NFL experience and has failed to stay in the owners box and bring in a team of seasoned NFL executives to rune the organization and lay the groundwork for how the team will function and what the expectations are.

The result is a team with talent but inconsistent performance and when they hit a tough spot, they dod not have the leadership to turn them in the right direction. At the coaches level they have no ability to think outside the box and create game plans that exploit the weaknesses of other teams while masking our deficiencies.

Drafting a LT, A QB or a DB is never going to change anything if there are no changes at the top.

I agree almost in total. But what this organization needs to do is continue to draft talent to fix the wholes. Right now our issues are at WR and DL.

Fix those through the draft (Spielman can do that) and get a coaching staff in that can lead this team and your problem will be solved. Not over night mind you, but it would get better as the year goes on, not worse.

Again, you switch Ponder to that side of the ball with those weapons and put that youngster on our side of the ball without those weaponse and we would be having the same conversation.

Again, its not the QB. Its the staff and the need to add a few more pieces.

On a side note, I would have loved to see Childs growing with this team or perhaps to still have Sidney or V-jax as an option for Ponder with Percy, Rudy and AD.

Originally Posted by Reignman

Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing the play calling. I'm calling for the heads of the entire coaching staff, but it's time to stop apologizing for Ponder. He's just terrible. If you don't include the garbage yards he got at the end of the Bucs game last week, this would have been his 3rd straight game under 100yds passing. I don't care how terrible the coaching staff is, a QB should be able to manufacture 100yds passing on his own. Tjoke had some bad coaches and not even he had 3 straight games as bad as this.

Who is he supposed to be throwing to?

Again, I'd love to see what you do when your back foot hits its third step and you have 2 or 3 defensemen in your grill or when you do have the opportunity to hit your 3rd, 5th and 7th step and no one is open, then have to start scrambling until someone can get open.

Seriously, no offense intended, but why that is being missed by posters like you amazes me.

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

If they continue to stick with him they damn well better know what is wrong with what he is doing and they damn well better know that they have the ability to fix him and that he has the ability to be fixed because at this point he is worse than Jackson ever was.

Is he worse or does he appear to be worse because our offense is so lame even a 3rd grader can come up with a scheme against it?

Originally Posted by Reignman

Seems to be the same perspective as the rest of us (rag on the Vikings) lol, but I agree with everything you said. I'd just like to add that our coaches are pretty good at taking out our best weapons (AP and PH) on 3rd down and when we're in the RZ too. I guess that's our way of trying to fool the defense.

But yes, a Bevell run offense that features a rookie QB just put up their season high in points vs our defense. A defense for the 3rd straight game that tackled like the other players were covered in butter.

We're now also 0-3 vs rookie QB's this year (Luck, RG3, Wilson) and in those 3 games our defense managed to grab a grand total of 1 INT. I just can't figure out why this team can't manage to generate any takeaways.

Please, don't get me going on our defense......

Oh wait, why not......

Jared needs to go. K-dubb needs to go. Fred Evans needs to go. The whole "Rotation" idea that I almost bought into needs to go.

Sacks be damned......This DL is a mess and isn't getting any better.

Marty!!!

What the hell!?

I'm trying, but I"m not actually disagreeing with anything in your first post.

To paraphrase the great Denny Green: "We are, who we thought we are"

The 5-2 Vikings were pretenders. The 5-4 Vikings are for real.

We are not a good team. We thrived when we could exploit weaknesses, not be exploited. We haven't shown any ability to adjust at all.

People who need to go ASAP!

Fraizer
Musgrave
OL coach
QB Coach

We simply don't make adjustments and don't develop players.

We have talented players at some positions, but we've blatantly ignored others.

I think the problem is we went into this year with the expectation of a rebuilding year. THat's why picking a LT made sense. Get some pieces together and make a run in two years. However, starting out hot, beating the 49ers got us thinking playffs. We're simply not a playoff team. We can't compete.

The Packers look unstoppable, the Bears just put up 51 points on the Titans. THe Lions are getting better. We're just not going to do it.

What I want to see happen is some big offseason moves. GET RID OF MUSGRAVE. Honestly I don't have an issue with Fraizer, but he's not ideal. He doesn't call plays, and he's a defensive guy, so I don't really hold him 100% accountable for our terrible offensive playcalling. We're simply not calling plays to make our offense work.

I mean fuck, when you have a guy run for 180 yards and still not win? Something is wrong.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

I know you've hated the kid since he got here, but I just don't see him as the problem. At least until I see him with a set of WR's other than what he has to work with now.

One thing for you "Ponder" haters to think about.......Percy is at the top of the league in receptions. He's there for a reason. Ponder gets him the ball. If we had at least one more, two would be great, guys that could run a route and get separation on a 3 step drop, let alone a 5 or a 7 step drop, Percy would be blowing Welker away in all categories instead of being tied with him.

I don't agree with that. Most of the time its the QB that makes the WR look good. A very good QB can make a average WR look like a pro bowler. Look at what Favre did with below average WR's in GB in his heyday. Look at what Rodgers does with guys like Crabtree, Jones, and guys like that. You think Tom Crabtree would play this good with Ponder as his QB? I highly doubt it.

Harvin is a great talent, he proved himself in college, and also in the NFL. If a QB gets the ball anywhere near him, he is going to make a play on it, its what he does, he is that good. I believe Harvin has made Ponder look much better early on than what he really was. This is the real Christian Ponder, not the guy we saw in the first few games. He looks exactly like he did when he had the chances to play last season.

So maybe if the Vikings had another very good WR or 2, they might be able to make Ponder look half way decent. All I know is that if anyone really thinks that Ponder has the tools to be a very good QB, they obviously don't know the game. Luck in Indy doesn't have a very good offensive line, but he plays well week in and week out. He is a true franchise QB, Ponder is nothing even close.

Originally Posted by VikesfaninWis

Yeah, still baffles me that the Vikings never even attempted to make a trade this year. Pretty sad when your passing game is that anemic even though your RB had 182 yards and 2 TD's. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't that kind of running game open up opportunities for your passing game? So Ponder passes for 63 yards with that type of running game? Good grief, I would hate to see what he would do if the running game wasn't on.

Ever watch how many WRs are on the field as apposed to TE's on the field? A heavy dose of 23 and 24 sets makes it pretty hard for WR's to do anything.

Additionally, a heavy dose of 23 and 24 sets shrinks everything down into the box. Sure you have alot of "skilled" players blocking along with your OL, but it still shrinks the box.

Of course we can ignore the obvious in that and continue to blame the QB for cripes sake.

Originally Posted by TheAnimal93

This much is obvious. The ways the Vikings were winning, are missing. Rudolph has been 100% absent. The defense is hitting a wall right now. Way too long on the field. also by their own volition, by not getting off the field for lack of coverage and poor tackling. Ponder has turned an about face, 180, run of the mill, pedestrian type of non-quarterback in the past few weeks. Staff is not helping the team with the cutesy playcalling trying to be innovative or something, idk. Im really not buying into the lack of talent thing. I see teams making plays with many different players.
How many blockers are staying in to pick up these blitzes? Evidently not enough and/or assignments are being missed and players are being man-handled. In Ponder's defense I don't think too many QB's would have made too many plays with the O-line play. Couple of plays Ponder barely had time to duck much less hit the ground before becoming comsumed by the multitude of players making a living in the Vikings backfield for most of the game. The Vikings were winning as a TEAM, and now they are losing that way.

During a spell there, the Offense did move the ball late in the quarter, had the quarter change and then held the ball for over 4 minutes into the next quarter and the defense still looked like shit when they came out on the field.

Not buying the "Offense isn't on the field long enough" story. I am buying that the defense should be getting off the field more often and giving the young offense more chances instead of lesssssssss.

Oh come one, there were more than enough plays where he had the time to throw and he'd air mail a pass nowhere near the receiver. How bout that roll out that he zipped 5 yards behind the receiver? Sid Rice had a nice roll out and hit his target in stride. I've seen a pattern of shitty passes the past few weeks. I've cut him some slack because of the turn stile offensive line and lack of targets, but sometimes he has plenty of time and he still misses his target badly.

When you compare him to his peers, he's way behind. Luck, RG3, and Wilson all look better than Ponder at this point. He's no better than Gabbert and Gabbert is working with even fewer weapons. How can you have a back like AP who draws all the attention and still not be able to throw for 100yds?

I agree most of the blame falls on Frazier and Musgrave, but lets stop giving Ponder a pass like he's some special needs kid.

Where are all the people who stated over and over again that drafting a "franchise LT" would make us a better team?

....

Caine