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  1. #11
    jackyl's Avatar
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    True.... but that in itself is the prob. The D, not the coach. The starting D made Joey Harrington ( who I've watched play since High School ) look like John Elway, or Joe Montana... The running D is so bad that William Perry could go for 125 and a TD on them.

  2. #12
    JWalkRulz84 is offline Rookie
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    If you guys want a "Defensive Genius," we'll give you Bob Slowik for 1st Round compensation :roll:
    [img:ebda3835f6]http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/insider/wallpaper/111504/walk640.jpg[/img:ebda3835f6]

  3. #13
    muchluv4smoot's Avatar
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    "jackyl" wrote:
    True.... but that in itself is the prob. The D, not the coach. The starting D made Joey Harrington ( who I've watched play since High School ) look like John Elway, or Joe Montana... The running D is so bad that William Perry could go for 125 and a TD on them.

    Mike Tice, the head coach, is responsible for that D we see on the field every sunday. Tice hired the D coaches, tice picked what D players we drafted, tice picked what D FA's we signed, and Tice chooses what players start every sunday. Sorry, but it isn't always a D coordinators fault when a D sucks. Cottrell has proven himself before, that he can caoch a #1 D.

  4. #14
    jackyl's Avatar
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    He has proven that the players were more important than the system. Look at the Bills D this year without him. Tice has the SMALLEST budget for coaching, players etc in the league. Period. He didn't hire the best D cord out there.... he hired the best that would coach for the terrible pay. You'll never put a Super Bowl product on the field with ownership like that. Hate Tice all ya want, but this is a problem that starts at the top. It will always be this way regardless of head coach as long as Red is in the owner's box.

  5. #15
    muchluv4smoot's Avatar
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    "jackyl" wrote:
    He has proven that the players were more important than the system. Look at the Bills D this year without him. Tice has the SMALLEST budget for coaching, players etc in the league. Period. He didn't hire the best D cord out there.... he hired the best that would coach for the terrible pay. You'll never put a Super Bowl product on the field with ownership like that. Hate Tice all ya want, but this is a problem that starts at the top. It will always be this way regardless of head coach as long as Red is in the owner's box.

    I don't disagree that red is a big problem, but I will never use red as an excuse for tice. Tice is a moron and a horrible head coach period. I believe denny had the same that tice does, and even denny was able to win 12 or 13 games with lesser coaches and players. So it isn't an excuse for tice, that red is cheap.


    You kind of contradicted yourself a little there. Saying the players matter much more than the coordinator, yet then you talk about tice not being able to hire a good D coordinator and that cottrell needs to go. I thought it was the players that mattered the most, not the system? We did just sign winfield to a huge contract, so don't say tice couldn't sign any good D players. Claiborne was also a pretty good D signing a few years back, not a big contract, but a good player at the time.

    I just get sick of all the excuses for tice. The guy just isn't getting the job done, period. That is all that matters.

  6. #16
    jackyl's Avatar
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    I'm not saying Cotrell needs to go. I was saying having him as head coach wouldn't solve anything. No Vikings head coach has ever got the job done, yet there's people on the board calling for Bud to come back. :lol: Red has done worse to this team than Davis has in Oakland. You could bring in a staff of Parcells, Billick, Billicheck and the Vikes would do no more than they have this year with Red acting the same.

  7. #17
    muchluv4smoot's Avatar
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    "jackyl" wrote:
    I'm not saying Cotrell needs to go. I was saying having him as head coach wouldn't solve anything. No Vikings head coach has ever got the job done, yet there's people on the board calling for Bud to come back. :lol: Red has done worse to this team than Davis has in Oakland. You could bring in a staff of Parcells, Billick, Billicheck and the Vikes would do no more than they have this year with Red acting the same.

    I don't agree with that at all. We did do much better with denny as our coach and he had absolutely the same to work with as tice has had. Denny actually had less. He was never allowed to pay a huge contract to a D player like tice was for winfield.

    Now sure denny didn't win the super bowl, but hey, at least he got us to the playoffs every year.

    How often did we underacheive under denny? How many times have we done it under tice?

    I think noone will argue that our D this year has so much more talent on it than any of denny's D's. yet what does tice do with all that talent?

    Again I will say I hate denny and don't think he is a good coach, but that also helps my arguement that a different coach will do wonders for this team.

  8. #18
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    I think that the D now has more superstar type of players, but I also think that the mid 90's Vikes D was more solid overall. I don't remember it having these kind of holes as this years team did they?

  9. #19
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    "jackyl" wrote:
    I think that the D now has more superstar type of players, but I also think that the mid 90's Vikes D was more solid overall. I don't remember it having these kind of holes as this years team did they?

    Those guys were pretty much all veterans on those D's, compared to all the young guys we have no. I mean really, we are starting 3 rookies and a 2nd year player on our D line. These guys will all get better.

    But talent wise, this years D has way more than any I can remember for some time now.

  10. #20
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    Yeah I agree that there's more big star potential on this squad. REALLY need to fill the holes though or the stars will be leaving too and going some where where they'll get some help. And that would suck.

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