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  1. #71
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    How so? They won 5 games with him & 5 games without.

    Since Harvin got hurt, Ponder avg. dropped from over 200 yards per game to 161 yards per game & his completion % fell from 63% to 60% despite his mechanics & pocket presence improving.
    I think he meant that the Vikings were able to accomplish as much without Harvin as they were with him.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

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  2. #72
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Not sure where you're getting your info. AD signed a 6 year rookie contract in 2007.



    Yes I counted 2007. A 6 year contract has him signed thru 2012 & a FA in 2013, So renewing his contract in the beginning of 2011 was a full year before his final year. Count again.
    Sorry but your source is wikipedia, and it's wrong. Every other source says Peterson's rookie contract was 5 years. He was entering the final year of that contract when he signed his new 6 year extension.
    Here is one of many articles that mentions the 5 year rookie contract.

    Adrian Peterson didnít hold out because heís ďin the driverís seatĒ | ProFootballTalk

    ďIím pretty much in a good position right now,Ē Peterson told 105.3 the Fan in Dallas, via SportsRadioInterviews.com. ďIím kind of in the driverís seat, so I just decided, hey, itís my last year of the contract, Iíll stay faithful to it and Iím going to go out and focus on doing what I can do to help this team win a championship. . . . Everything else will work out on its own.Ē

    The Vikings negotiate contracts prior to the last year of the rookie contract, as they did with Peterson.

    They are beginning that process with Percy now. Thus all the rumors and behind the scenes posturing.
    Last edited by smegmavike; 02-14-2013 at 10:34 AM.

  3. #73
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    The Harvin Debate

    Couple guys on Pro Football Focus discussing the pros and cons of Harvin.

    I still think the Vikings would like to resign Harvin, but not at an overinflated price. By shopping him for a trade, they can better assess his true value on the market and use it to negotiate a deal. If a strong trade does present itself, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him go.

    Harvin is a rare talent without a doubt and plays the game on the field as intensely as anyone I've seen. However, he needs to be knocked down a bit on his prima donna-ness, or he could very well be a distraction to the rest of the team.

    And why is it, that the prima donna's in the league usually are WR's. Whoever told these guys that they are the most important position on a team. I think they all need to get knocked down a few notches.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    Sorry but your source is wikipedia, and it's wrong. Every other source says Peterson's rookie contract was 5 years. He was entering the final year of that contract when he signed his new 6 year extension.
    Here is one of many articles that mentions the 5 year rookie contract.

    Adrian Peterson didnít hold out because heís ďin the driverís seatĒ | ProFootballTalk

    ďIím pretty much in a good position right now,Ē Peterson told 105.3 the Fan in Dallas, via SportsRadioInterviews.com. ďIím kind of in the driverís seat, so I just decided, hey, itís my last year of the contract, Iíll stay faithful to it and Iím going to go out and focus on doing what I can do to help this team win a championship. . . . Everything else will work out on its own.Ē

    The Vikings negotiate contracts prior to the last year of the rookie contract, as they did with Peterson.

    They are beginning that process with Percy now. Thus all the rumors and behind the scenes posturing.
    Thanks for the find. When seached for his rookie contract mostly what I found were articles about his new one & the Wikipedia one.
    Last edited by singersp; 02-15-2013 at 05:50 AM.

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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I think he meant that the Vikings were able to accomplish as much without Harvin as they were with him.
    I know he was going there, but I don't necessarily agree with it. They had as many wins, but I believe our passing game suffered quite a blow with Harvin not in it. AD stepped up his running game which skewed the perception of our passing game & wins.

    If fans want to believe we are just fine without him because we won 5 games without him, then they should be just fine if we go into the 2013 season with the WR corp we have, less Harvin.

    The good that did come out of it was that Ponder was forced to start trusting & throwing to other WR's.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #76
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    Volatile Harvin still brings more reward than risk

    Souhan: Volatile Harvin still brings more reward than risk | StarTribune.com

    Maybe he used a word in his confrontation with coach Leslie Frazier that would have been bleeped out of a Tarantino flick. Maybe he used a baseball broadcast without the express written consent of the commissioner, or tore the tag off a mattress, or tried to buy beer on Sunday.

    This is the NFL, and what we know for sure about Harvin is that he never has been indicted on double murder charges, doesn't get fat before realizing he needs NFL paychecks to pay off past bar bills, never plays at half-speed and has yet to speak out against the possibility of a gay teammate.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Volatile Harvin still brings more reward than risk

    Souhan: Volatile Harvin still brings more reward than risk | StarTribune.com
    He makes some fair points.

    I would like to see Harvin stay with the Vikings for a reasonable price. I don't need to see Harvin stay with the Vikings at any price.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    The Harvin Debate

    Couple guys on Pro Football Focus discussing the pros and cons of Harvin.

    I still think the Vikings would like to resign Harvin, but not at an overinflated price. By shopping him for a trade, they can better assess his true value on the market and use it to negotiate a deal. If a strong trade does present itself, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him go.

    Harvin is a rare talent without a doubt and plays the game on the field as intensely as anyone I've seen. However, he needs to be knocked down a bit on his prima donna-ness, or he could very well be a distraction to the rest of the team.

    And why is it, that the prima donna's in the league usually are WR's. Whoever told these guys that they are the most important position on a team. I think they all need to get knocked down a few notches.
    Good points on both sides, especially this:
    At the end of the day, with Harvin you are trading for a football player and an offensive weapon, the best and most versatile in the league. When players are as special and productive as Harvin then teams have this habit of finding ways to work with the baggage they bring with them. If I have the right offensive mind on my staff, then as a general manager Iím looking at Harvin as the most devastating offensive weapon I can get my hands on. At the right price he is a piece of the puzzle I absolutely want on my football team.
    But also, some info I hadn't heard:

    He was actually banned from playing in all Virginia High School sports after punching a referee, and his issues continued during his college career at the University of Florida.

    He also has a long injury history. His time in the NFL hasnít been too bad, missing just 10 of 64 career games (seven of which came this year with a torn ankle ligament), and he is undoubtedly tough as nails, but including college he has missed time with ankle, neck, rib, heel, and more ankle injuries, as well as a well-documented battle with migraines. He is tough, but Harvin is just 5-foot-11′ and 184 pounds, being tackled by players that outweigh him by 60 pounds or more on a regular basis ó that doesnít add up to a player you can rely on week in, week out.
    And, now he is getting older...meaning, he won't heal quite as fast as he used to and may not bounce back quite as quickly.

    Summed up, a talent you are very afraid to lose, but also a risk you are very afraid to take given the size of the contract he deserves vs. the probability of him missing more on-field time going forward. IF we're paying 2 of our 52 players over 25 mill/year it makes keeping talent around them harder.

    Hopefully you're right Tasty, we are just testing the waters a bit. IF we're only offered a 2nd for him, fuck that, we get Bizdealski to work out some creative contract to make both sides happy. The way I see it, he plays 3 spots well, making him worth 3 picks or 2 starters, like a 1st and a player perhaps. Anything less than that and we're better off rolling the dice.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Good find on the salary links. It looks like Harvin is set to make just under $6 million this year. That puts him in the top echelons of WRs.
    Not sure how you came up with $6 mil. His base salary is only $2.9 mil with a signing bonus of $196,000. That puts him just over $3 mil. With the additional bonus, if he gets it, would barley put him over $4 mil. which is his salary cap.

    That doesn't even put him remotely close to being paid top echelon money. It's about 1/2 of what the #10 WR makes. Not close......half. Not half of the #1, but half of the #10.

    Here's the top 10 cap hits for WR's in 2013;

    2013 NFL Top Cap Hit Salaries - Wide Receiver

    #10 is $8.3 mil. How close is $4 mil to that figure?

    Here's the top 10 base salaries for WR's in 2013;

    2013 NFL Top Base Salaries - Wide Receiver

    #10 is $5.6 mil. How close is $2.9 mil to that figure?

    Average salaries;

    2013 NFL Top Average Salaries - Wide Receiver

    Again, he's nowhere near the top 10. Not even close.

    Do I believe he should be paid top 3 money? Nope! But I believe he needs to be paid enough more than he's making now to at least put him nearer to #10 money.
    Last edited by singersp; 02-16-2013 at 08:44 AM.

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  10. #80
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    Good points on both sides, especially this:


    But also, some info I hadn't heard:



    And, now he is getting older...meaning, he won't heal quite as fast as he used to and may not bounce back quite as quickly.

    Summed up, a talent you are very afraid to lose, but also a risk you are very afraid to take given the size of the contract he deserves vs. the probability of him missing more on-field time going forward. IF we're paying 2 of our 52 players over 25 mill/year it makes keeping talent around them harder.

    Hopefully you're right Tasty, we are just testing the waters a bit. IF we're only offered a 2nd for him, fuck that, we get Bizdealski to work out some creative contract to make both sides happy. The way I see it, he plays 3 spots well, making him worth 3 picks or 2 starters, like a 1st and a player perhaps. Anything less than that and we're better off rolling the dice.
    Older? If we sign him to a 5 year deal he won't even be 30 by it's completion.

    Most receivers in this year's draft are 21 or 22. Harvin is 24, will be 25 in May.

    It's rare to have a veteran of 4 seasons who's only 24 years old.

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