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  1. #11
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WHy are NFl players treated in the media and public's eyes as guilty before proven innocent.
    Many of you are big time Vikings fans but we immediately belived that MAC was guilty.

    People immediately believed that Vick was guilty. Before his trial even began, he was targeted by PETA and protested to the point where it was immpossible for him to get a even jury.

    I just don't understand why we can blame Mac and believe he is guilty when we haen't even heard his side of the story. And you all call yourselves Viking fans..for shame!!!
    Guilt or innocence in terms of a court (which is where you're going) is very different from "Did he do something wrong or not."

    Clearly, McKinnie left a club mad - AND THEN CAME BACK SWINGING.
    There are NUMEROUS eyewitness reports of this.
    I don't see how that's in dispute - and under NO circumstances to I view that to be acceptable conduct.
    I wouldn't if you were a buddy of mine, let alone the starting LT for the town's number 1 sports team.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  2. #12
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WHy are NFl players treated in the media and public's eyes as guilty before proven innocent.
    Many of you are big time Vikings fans but we immediately belived that MAC was guilty.

    People immediately believed that Vick was guilty. Before his trial even began, he was targeted by PETA and protested to the point where it was immpossible for him to get a even jury.

    I just don't understand why we can blame Mac and believe he is guilty when we haen't even heard his side of the story. And you all call yourselves Viking fans..for shame!!!
    Guilt or innocence in terms of a court (which is where you're going) is very different from "Did he do something wrong or not."

    Clearly, McKinnie left a club mad - AND THEN CAME BACK SWINGING.
    There are NUMEROUS eyewitness reports of this.
    I don't see how that's in dispute - and under NO circumstances to I view that to be acceptable conduct.
    I wouldn't if you were a buddy of mine, let alone the starting LT for the town's number 1 sports team.

    =Z=
    He plead not guilty. Les atleast hear his side of the story? Has anyone heard his side of the story?
    He said he didn't do it. Lets just wait till we hear why?

    But...nope. Lets rush to pass judgement. :

  3. #13
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    And on the same not, Vick was not protested to the point that it was impossible for him to get a jury.
    I don't think it even made it to jury selection, and even if it did, the press coverage and protests were no where near the point that it would compromise selection.
    Are you serious? Where you in the US last summer? Did you watch the news last summer. It was the only story on espn.

    And back to your remarks about Vick being guilty, come one man there is a difference between being guilty and pleading guilty. That's as basic as it gets.

  4. #14
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WHy are NFl players treated in the media and public's eyes as guilty before proven innocent.
    Many of you are big time Vikings fans but we immediately belived that MAC was guilty.

    People immediately believed that Vick was guilty. Before his trial even began, he was targeted by PETA and protested to the point where it was immpossible for him to get a even jury.

    I just don't understand why we can blame Mac and believe he is guilty when we haen't even heard his side of the story. And you all call yourselves Viking fans..for shame!!!
    Guilt or innocence in terms of a court (which is where you're going) is very different from "Did he do something wrong or not."

    Clearly, McKinnie left a club mad - AND THEN CAME BACK SWINGING.
    There are NUMEROUS eyewitness reports of this.
    I don't see how that's in dispute - and under NO circumstances to I view that to be acceptable conduct.
    I wouldn't if you were a buddy of mine, let alone the starting LT for the town's number 1 sports team.
    He plead not guilty. Les atleast hear his side of the story? Has anyone heard his side of the story?
    He said he didn't do it. Lets just wait till we hear why?

    But...nope. Lets rush to pass judgement. :
    Of course he pled Not Guilty.
    Everyone pleads Not Guilty.
    And everyone in prison is innocent.

    I don't care "why".
    That's not the point.
    There's no "why" that explains leaving and then coming back to get into a fight.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  5. #15
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "ultravikingfan" wrote:
    Go back an answer your other thread (where you got your jiggly butt handed to you) first.

    Please list me the names of members who said he was guilty?
    Please do so...I am dying to see this.

    While you are on your high horse, maybe you can post some guidelines on being a Viking Fan since you seem to be one and some of us apparently are not.

    [size=13pt]Fun how 1 person does something and he gets....[/size]

    BTW, didn't you mean "Funny"?
    I meant Funny but
    said fun...it happens to be all the time...
    Moving on, the fact that LT is a draft need and the fact the everyone( almost everyone) on this board believes he would will be suspended kinda points to the fact that they believe he's guilt...don't you think?

  6. #16
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WHy are NFl players treated in the media and public's eyes as guilty before proven innocent.
    Many of you are big time Vikings fans but we immediately belived that MAC was guilty.

    People immediately believed that Vick was guilty. Before his trial even began, he was targeted by PETA and protested to the point where it was immpossible for him to get a even jury.

    I just don't understand why we can blame Mac and believe he is guilty when we haen't even heard his side of the story. And you all call yourselves Viking fans..for shame!!!
    Guilt or innocence in terms of a court (which is where you're going) is very different from "Did he do something wrong or not."

    Clearly, McKinnie left a club mad - AND THEN CAME BACK SWINGING.
    There are NUMEROUS eyewitness reports of this.
    I don't see how that's in dispute - and under NO circumstances to I view that to be acceptable conduct.
    I wouldn't if you were a buddy of mine, let alone the starting LT for the town's number 1 sports team.
    He plead not guilty. Les atleast hear his side of the story? Has anyone heard his side of the story?
    He said he didn't do it. Lets just wait till we hear why?

    But...nope. Lets rush to pass judgement. :
    Of course he pled Not Guilty.
    Everyone pleads Not Guilty.
    And everyone in prison is innocent.

    I don't care "why".
    That's not the point.
    There's no "why" that explains leaving and then coming back to get into a fight.

    =Z=
    How do you know? We don't. Again, you're proving my point. You are jumping to conclusions and saying nothing he can say will explain it. Why not wait for the explination before we cast him aside. This is why i questioned someones fanhood(love the commercial).

    Innocent people please not guilty. Do you always throw the baby out with the bath water?

  7. #17
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WHy are NFl players treated in the media and public's eyes as guilty before proven innocent.
    Many of you are big time Vikings fans but we immediately belived that MAC was guilty.

    People immediately believed that Vick was guilty. Before his trial even began, he was targeted by PETA and protested to the point where it was immpossible for him to get a even jury.

    I just don't understand why we can blame Mac and believe he is guilty when we haen't even heard his side of the story. And you all call yourselves Viking fans..for shame!!!
    Guilt or innocence in terms of a court (which is where you're going) is very different from "Did he do something wrong or not."

    Clearly, McKinnie left a club mad - AND THEN CAME BACK SWINGING.
    There are NUMEROUS eyewitness reports of this.
    I don't see how that's in dispute - and under NO circumstances to I view that to be acceptable conduct.
    I wouldn't if you were a buddy of mine, let alone the starting LT for the town's number 1 sports team.
    He plead not guilty. Les atleast hear his side of the story? Has anyone heard his side of the story?
    He said he didn't do it. Lets just wait till we hear why?

    But...nope. Lets rush to pass judgement. :
    Of course he pled Not Guilty.
    Everyone pleads Not Guilty.
    And everyone in prison is innocent.

    I don't care "why".
    That's not the point.
    There's no "why" that explains leaving and then coming back to get into a fight.

    =Z=
    Not commenting specifically on the Mckinnie thing, but law in general.
    Those people in jail were found Guilty AFTER a trial, and there has been plenty of people found Innocent AFTER the trial.
    Doesn't mean we can just ignore someone pleading not guilty and come to our own conclusions.
    The jury or judge will decide if he's guilty after hearing all the evidence(which none of us are probably going to be in that courtroom), so I find it silly that some people "know" what the verdict is or what is going to happen.

    My favorite example that has happened in the last couple years is the Duke Lacrosse case.
    Everybody was more than happy to throw those guys under the bus and declare them guilty, but turns out they weren't guilty of anything.
    Hmmmm, it's crazy how those trials and being able to plead not guilty work.

    Edit:Not trying to say anybody is doing that, but just a comment on daily life where people sit there and think to themselves that "they know" so and so is guilty.

  8. #18
    ultravikingfan's Avatar
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "ultravikingfan" wrote:
    Go back an answer your other thread (where you got your jiggly butt handed to you) first.

    Please list me the names of members who said he was guilty?
    Please do so...I am dying to see this.

    While you are on your high horse, maybe you can post some guidelines on being a Viking Fan since you seem to be one and some of us apparently are not.

    [size=13pt]Fun how 1 person does something and he gets....[/size]

    BTW, didn't you mean "Funny"?
    I meant Funny but
    said fun...it happens to be all the time...
    Moving on, the fact that LT is a draft need and the fact the everyone( almost everyone) on this board believes he would will be suspended kinda points to the fact that they believe he's guilt...don't you think?
    I knew it.
    Way to dodge the question.
    You said nothing about suspension in your initial rant.


    Let me refresh your memory:

    Many of you are big time Vikings fans but we immediately belived that MAC was guilty.
    If you are going to blast away, you'd better keep your ducks in a row.
    Or you are going to be pummeled by the likes of Zeus and Caine.

    Please answer me this, who here said he was guilty?
    Who?


    And you all call yourselves Viking fans..for shame!!!
    And who the fuck are you to be defining what a Viking fan is?


    I can tell you one thing you are not...good at debate.


  9. #19
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WHy are NFl players treated in the media and public's eyes as guilty before proven innocent.
    Many of you are big time Vikings fans but we immediately belived that MAC was guilty.

    People immediately believed that Vick was guilty. Before his trial even began, he was targeted by PETA and protested to the point where it was immpossible for him to get a even jury.

    I just don't understand why we can blame Mac and believe he is guilty when we haen't even heard his side of the story. And you all call yourselves Viking fans..for shame!!!
    Guilt or innocence in terms of a court (which is where you're going) is very different from "Did he do something wrong or not."

    Clearly, McKinnie left a club mad - AND THEN CAME BACK SWINGING.
    There are NUMEROUS eyewitness reports of this.
    I don't see how that's in dispute - and under NO circumstances to I view that to be acceptable conduct.
    I wouldn't if you were a buddy of mine, let alone the starting LT for the town's number 1 sports team.
    He plead not guilty. Les atleast hear his side of the story? Has anyone heard his side of the story?
    He said he didn't do it. Lets just wait till we hear why?

    But...nope. Lets rush to pass judgement. :
    Of course he pled Not Guilty.
    Everyone pleads Not Guilty.
    And everyone in prison is innocent.

    I don't care "why".
    That's not the point.
    There's no "why" that explains leaving and then coming back to get into a fight.
    How do you know? We don't. Again, you're proving my point. You are jumping to conclusions and saying nothing he can say will explain it. Why not wait for the explination before we cast him aside. This is why i questioned someones fanhood(love the commercial).

    Innocent people please not guilty. Do you always throw the baby out with the bath water?
    I'm proving your point?
    Whew....that's an interesting intepretation.

    What explanation can justify hitting someone in the head with a velvet-rope pole?
    You seem to believe that McKinnie is going to offer up some fantastic story for why what all the witnesses and police are reporting was okay.

    Again - you don't get it at all, so I'll go slowly - the NFL does not care if he is innocent or guilty.
    What a court says in a trial is immaterial to them - because he has ALREADY damaged the league and the Minnesota Vikings by being involved AT ALL.

    As to me - I just want him gone because he's a big statue who struggles to pass-block speed-rushing ends.
    I think he's an idiot for getting involved in what seems to be an average of one block-headed encounter with the police each year.
    Somehow, Matt Birk has been on this team twice as long and hasn't crossed that line once.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  10. #20
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Guilty Before Proven Innocent?

    "Schutz" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WHy are NFl players treated in the media and public's eyes as guilty before proven innocent.
    Many of you are big time Vikings fans but we immediately belived that MAC was guilty.

    People immediately believed that Vick was guilty. Before his trial even began, he was targeted by PETA and protested to the point where it was immpossible for him to get a even jury.

    I just don't understand why we can blame Mac and believe he is guilty when we haen't even heard his side of the story. And you all call yourselves Viking fans..for shame!!!
    Guilt or innocence in terms of a court (which is where you're going) is very different from "Did he do something wrong or not."

    Clearly, McKinnie left a club mad - AND THEN CAME BACK SWINGING.
    There are NUMEROUS eyewitness reports of this.
    I don't see how that's in dispute - and under NO circumstances to I view that to be acceptable conduct.
    I wouldn't if you were a buddy of mine, let alone the starting LT for the town's number 1 sports team.
    He plead not guilty. Les atleast hear his side of the story? Has anyone heard his side of the story?
    He said he didn't do it. Lets just wait till we hear why?

    But...nope. Lets rush to pass judgement. :
    Of course he pled Not Guilty.
    Everyone pleads Not Guilty.
    And everyone in prison is innocent.

    I don't care "why".
    That's not the point.
    There's no "why" that explains leaving and then coming back to get into a fight.

    =Z=
    Not commenting specifically on the Mckinnie thing, but law in general.
    Those people in jail were found Guilty AFTER a trial, and there has been plenty of people found Innocent AFTER the trial.
    Doesn't mean we can just ignore someone pleading not guilty and come to our own conclusions.
    The jury or judge will decide if he's guilty after hearing all the evidence(which none of us are probably going to be in that courtroom), so I find it silly that some people "know" what the verdict is or what is going to happen.

    My favorite example that has happened in the last couple years is the Duke Lacrosse case.
    Everybody was more than happy to throw those guys under the bus and declare them guilty, but turns out they weren't guilty of anything.
    Hmmmm, it's crazy how those trials and being able to plead not guilty work.

    Edit:Not trying to say anybody is doing that, but just a comment on daily life where people sit there and think to themselves that "they know" so and so is guilty.
    The Duke LAX issue is not even CLOSE to the situation here.
    In that, there was the story of one person being used to impunge and charge a whole team of players, even though all evidence pointed elsewhere.
    And, yes, the media was quick to judge.

    Here, however, it is different.

    IN PUBLIC McKINNIE WHACKED A GUY OVER THE HEAD WITH A POLE.

    There is no "rush to judge" or "guilty before innocent" in this matter, except in terms of the courts.
    Numerous eyewitness reports have confirmed that he did this.
    If he gets off, it's because he can afford some really good legal talent, not because all of those people got it wrong.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

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