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  1. #501
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "SamOchoCinco" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    They also didn't play Jacobs. Why did our running D get gashed regularly? I like Kevin, but I don't think he is anywhere near as good as most people regard him to be. One thing that Pat being out these two weeks has shown me is that DT is our number 1 need in the offseason. If KWill isn't the most overrated Viking, then who is??
    The Giants consistenty ran AWAY from KWill and used a pro bowl guard against our backup DT. That's why.
    Ok...fine...then why didn't we move KWill to NT to help negate that advantage. So now we are back to fire Childress. Idk, if you D-line has three true pro-bowl players, losing one should not make as big of difference as it did. Look at the Giants...they lost a HOF in Strayhan, plus there next best guy in uminora(you spell it) and still managed to have a top D-line. Something is not right....hopefully it was just an off day...but our line got owned, that includeds Allen and KWill.
    because then they would just run it away from big kev and JA and run it at edwards and who ever is on that side with him
    Poor excuse...we had 2 pro-bowl lineman in that game, the giants did not. They did a better job with our 1st string pro-bowler then we did with there 2nd string guy.

  2. #502
    tb04512's Avatar
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48225.msg886509#msg886509 date=1230556248]
    [quote author=ragz link=topic=48225.msg886502#msg886502 date=1230555950]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48225.msg884556#msg884556 date=1230121783]
    [quote author=ragz link=topic=48225.msg884392#msg884392 date=1230075914]
    well comparing cook and griffin isn't really comparable.
    for one griffin was being used a certian way either outta stubborness on the philosphy side, or becuz they didn't trust the help over the top until madieu came back.
    the way they were using him he was not effective, and he still has to prove his ball skills are improved on deep balls cuz that was a big part of his problem on the big plays he gave up.
    but using him aggressively is something they changed to suit him.

    cooks problems are just getting beat, and constantly making mental mistakes probably becuz hes getting beat.
    anyone that says hes not playing that bad must have missed alot of games.
    hes had his share of quiet games which is always good for an olineman, but if the answer is to just have to constantly give him help then hes a problem.
    hes still young and hes got a shot to develop, but as of right now he has been hurting us, and alot of times in crucial situations.
    fact is he wouldnt be in if not for an injury.
    the situations with jackson, and with griffin are much different than they are with cook.
    theres nothing about the schemes that are limiting him or not using him correctly besides maybe just not being an o-tackle.
    hes just getting beat and making dumb mistakes.
    All of the OLmen are having issues.
    Why do you ignore them?
    Cause they have "More Quiet Games".


    Comeon ragz.
    You know just as well as I do that our issue isn't with Mr. Cook but our whole OL with respect to Pass Protection.

    As with all of them, Cook is well suited for the ZB scheme we use during running plays but for some reason (Making Mr. A's day here) maybe they aren't suited for our pass blocking scheme.
    Seems they all have issues with that.
    Could it be our T's are to big for the speedier edge rushers?
    Is our C to slow to get out in space anymore putting to much pressure on our G's and TE's? Or is it just that our OL Coach doesn't know what the hell he is doing?

    I would look to see some changes this year someplace.
    Hopefully for all of us it isn't at the player position as that would set us back another 2 or 3 years as the new guy(s) learn the system.

    :
    well where has there been pass protection problems as glaringly as cook?
    and why did he get benched to begin with?
    mckinny to me has been great for most of the year in pass protection, and for the most part the lines pass protection, minus yesterday, has been good in my opinion.
    then you factor in his problems with pentalties and the blaming of other components becomes a little excusy.


    he gets beat, he gets beat.
    maybe hes supposed to have help on a certain play, or maybe too deep of a drop by a qb, but on the plays he gets beat its kinda hard to argue that anybody did someting wrong besides him especially since its consistent.
    and the same thing with the pentalties, hes the guy on the line that gets called for pentalties regularly.
    hes young and he can develop, but he isn't being asked to give a guy a 10 yd cushion like griffin was.
    hes being asked to beat the guy in front of him, especially on pass downs, and if he can't we have to give him help and it doesn't exactly help the pass offense.
    its obvious he's the weakest link, and i think its kinda unfair to blame some of the other guys who are having pretty good years just to defend cook.
    hes had his moments of solid play, but just like most young guys hes inconsistent.
    nothing wrong with pointing that out.


    All good points, however it is the same thing I am saying though isn't it?

    He makes mistakes.
    He has talent.
    He can get better with the right coaching.
    Who is better right now that the coaches could put in there?

    etc etc etc.

    Long story short, until the FO pukes give the staff something better, he is the future.
    Like it or not.

    As to Griff, did you see how long he had to cover last night?
    Seemed like our DL reverted back to Pre-JA days.
    No pressure at all especially in 3rd and longs when we knew they were passing.
    Simply shamefull.

    :'(
    no doubt, even on blitzes so that worries me.
    i'm just hoping it was one of those days, but we haven't looked like that on defense since maybe the first chicago game.
    and for some reason didn't it seem once sharper left the game, and we got beat a couple of times deep that cushion came back again.
    all around yesterday we seemed like we had a hard time figuring out how to stop what the giants were doing on both sides of the ball.
    i fear that if we dont get patt back that teams are gonna be able to grind out those 4 yds or more and leave our pass defense flailing again.
    What happened to K-Williams being the greatest DT in football?? I think K-Williams is the most overrated Viking. If he was as good as people think we would not have got ran right over these last two games. Half of his sacks came in one game...that doesn't=consistent pressure to me. We can live without Pat in our game against the Eagles, but if he isn't back after that...Vikings against Atlanta, Carolina, Giants=loss.
    [/quote]

    Ummmmmm you do know that KWill's primary purpose is to stop the run not get sacks.
    He is not the most over-rated Viking.
    Fred Evens is just not that good and isn't able to provide the help they need.
    KWill cannot take on 2 - 300 lb guys at the same time.
    No one can.
    Granted PWill is a big loss but even though they gave up 135 yards rushing this week it wasn't all because of KWill.
    By the way the Giants average 157.4 ypg rushing.
    Last week without Pat they gave up 100 yards to a team that averages almost 152.7 per game.
    I will hardly say he run over.
    [/quote]

    They also didn't play Jacobs. Why did our running D get gashed regularly? I like Kevin, but I don't think he is anywhere near as good as most people regard him to be. One thing that Pat being out these two weeks has shown me is that DT is our number 1 need in the offseason. If KWill isn't the most overrated Viking, then who is??
    [/quote]

    how about to start, Tarvaris Jackson?
    People now are pretending he's the second coming of christ, when really, he was pretty shaky yesterday.
    A couple of dropped picks by the giants that weren't brought the other way are the only reason there's no "Bring back gus" thread right now.

    his stats are 16/26, 239, 1 and 1 for a rating of

    those look goo don paper, but i counted 2 dropped interceptions and one floater throwaway to the middle of the field that might have been a pick if the linebacker was faster/paying attention

    his stats are now 16/26, 249 1 and 4 for a rating of 64.9

    the other guy, perhaps Sharper?
    but he's being ragged on pretty hard lately, i suppose its hard to call someone overrated when he's not rated very highly to begin with, same with birk.


    [/quote]
    did you see the "floater' in the middle of the field? did you see him going to throw it to berrian, only to have AD and tahi miss a block and let the lineman hit him as he threw?
    The bring back the gus thread doesnt exist because T-Jack has 8td's and 1int in the last 3-1/2 games... The pressure that he has gotten would leave gus dead on the field where at least he can run and make something happen

    "i suppose its hard to call someone overrated when he's not rated very highly to begin with"....yet you said t-jack is the most overrated...

    anyways cedric has been playing good, he needs to work on his speed though he gets beat deep alot

    Thanks josdin00

  3. #503
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "Chazz" wrote:
    "SamOchoCinco" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    They also didn't play Jacobs. Why did our running D get gashed regularly? I like Kevin, but I don't think he is anywhere near as good as most people regard him to be. One thing that Pat being out these two weeks has shown me is that DT is our number 1 need in the offseason. If KWill isn't the most overrated Viking, then who is??
    The Giants consistenty ran AWAY from KWill and used a pro bowl guard against our backup DT. That's why.
    Ok...fine...then why didn't we move KWill to NT to help negate that advantage. So now we are back to fire Childress. Idk, if you D-line has three true pro-bowl players, losing one should not make as big of difference as it did. Look at the Giants...they lost a HOF in Strayhan, plus there next best guy in uminora(you spell it) and still managed to have a top D-line. Something is not right....hopefully it was just an off day...but our line got owned, that includeds Allen and KWill.
    because then they would just run it away from big kev and JA and run it at edwards and who ever is on that side with him
    Poor excuse...we had 2 pro-bowl lineman in that game, the giants did not. They did a better job with our 1st string pro-bowler then we did with there 2nd string guy.
    how do you expect our defence to the same without pat williams?

    so you think wymms, kennedy, and fred evans can fill in fat pat's spot? your funny man. your funny

  4. #504
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "Chazz" wrote:
    "SamOchoCinco" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    They also didn't play Jacobs. Why did our running D get gashed regularly? I like Kevin, but I don't think he is anywhere near as good as most people regard him to be. One thing that Pat being out these two weeks has shown me is that DT is our number 1 need in the offseason. If KWill isn't the most overrated Viking, then who is??
    The Giants consistenty ran AWAY from KWill and used a pro bowl guard against our backup DT. That's why.
    Ok...fine...then why didn't we move KWill to NT to help negate that advantage. So now we are back to fire Childress. Idk, if you D-line has three true pro-bowl players, losing one should not make as big of difference as it did. Look at the Giants...they lost a HOF in Strayhan, plus there next best guy in uminora(you spell it) and still managed to have a top D-line. Something is not right....hopefully it was just an off day...but our line got owned, that includeds Allen and KWill.
    because then they would just run it away from big kev and JA and run it at edwards and who ever is on that side with him
    Poor excuse...we had 2 pro-bowl lineman in that game, the giants did not. They did a better job with our 1st string pro-bowler then we did with there 2nd string guy.
    So because our DL with a major piece missing was not as good as their DL, which is considered by many to be great, we suck?
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  5. #505
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It


    "Chazz" wrote:
    They also didn't play Jacobs. [color=blue]Why did our running D get gashed regularly?
    You do realize I hope, that the Giants have two 1,000+ rushers on their team?

    Judging by your post, I didn't think so.

    Jacobs has 1,089 & Ward, who we faced yesterday, has 1,025. Also, Ward has seen 37 less carries than Jacobs.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #506
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "tb04512" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:
    [quote author=ragz link=topic=48225.msg886518#msg886518 date=1230556905]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48225.msg886509#msg886509 date=1230556248]
    [quote author=ragz link=topic=48225.msg886502#msg886502 date=1230555950]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=48225.msg884556#msg884556 date=1230121783]
    [quote author=ragz link=topic=48225.msg884392#msg884392 date=1230075914]
    well comparing cook and griffin isn't really comparable.
    for one griffin was being used a certian way either outta stubborness on the philosphy side, or becuz they didn't trust the help over the top until madieu came back.
    the way they were using him he was not effective, and he still has to prove his ball skills are improved on deep balls cuz that was a big part of his problem on the big plays he gave up.
    but using him aggressively is something they changed to suit him.

    cooks problems are just getting beat, and constantly making mental mistakes probably becuz hes getting beat.
    anyone that says hes not playing that bad must have missed alot of games.
    hes had his share of quiet games which is always good for an olineman, but if the answer is to just have to constantly give him help then hes a problem.
    hes still young and hes got a shot to develop, but as of right now he has been hurting us, and alot of times in crucial situations.
    fact is he wouldnt be in if not for an injury.
    the situations with jackson, and with griffin are much different than they are with cook.
    theres nothing about the schemes that are limiting him or not using him correctly besides maybe just not being an o-tackle.
    hes just getting beat and making dumb mistakes.
    All of the OLmen are having issues.
    Why do you ignore them?
    Cause they have "More Quiet Games".


    Comeon ragz.
    You know just as well as I do that our issue isn't with Mr. Cook but our whole OL with respect to Pass Protection.

    As with all of them, Cook is well suited for the ZB scheme we use during running plays but for some reason (Making Mr. A's day here) maybe they aren't suited for our pass blocking scheme.
    Seems they all have issues with that.
    Could it be our T's are to big for the speedier edge rushers?
    Is our C to slow to get out in space anymore putting to much pressure on our G's and TE's? Or is it just that our OL Coach doesn't know what the hell he is doing?

    I would look to see some changes this year someplace.
    Hopefully for all of us it isn't at the player position as that would set us back another 2 or 3 years as the new guy(s) learn the system.

    :
    well where has there been pass protection problems as glaringly as cook?
    and why did he get benched to begin with?
    mckinny to me has been great for most of the year in pass protection, and for the most part the lines pass protection, minus yesterday, has been good in my opinion.
    then you factor in his problems with pentalties and the blaming of other components becomes a little excusy.


    he gets beat, he gets beat.
    maybe hes supposed to have help on a certain play, or maybe too deep of a drop by a qb, but on the plays he gets beat its kinda hard to argue that anybody did someting wrong besides him especially since its consistent.
    and the same thing with the pentalties, hes the guy on the line that gets called for pentalties regularly.
    hes young and he can develop, but he isn't being asked to give a guy a 10 yd cushion like griffin was.
    hes being asked to beat the guy in front of him, especially on pass downs, and if he can't we have to give him help and it doesn't exactly help the pass offense.
    its obvious he's the weakest link, and i think its kinda unfair to blame some of the other guys who are having pretty good years just to defend cook.
    hes had his moments of solid play, but just like most young guys hes inconsistent.
    nothing wrong with pointing that out.


    All good points, however it is the same thing I am saying though isn't it?

    He makes mistakes.
    He has talent.
    He can get better with the right coaching.
    Who is better right now that the coaches could put in there?

    etc etc etc.

    Long story short, until the FO pukes give the staff something better, he is the future.
    Like it or not.

    As to Griff, did you see how long he had to cover last night?
    Seemed like our DL reverted back to Pre-JA days.
    No pressure at all especially in 3rd and longs when we knew they were passing.
    Simply shamefull.

    :'(
    no doubt, even on blitzes so that worries me.
    i'm just hoping it was one of those days, but we haven't looked like that on defense since maybe the first chicago game.
    and for some reason didn't it seem once sharper left the game, and we got beat a couple of times deep that cushion came back again.
    all around yesterday we seemed like we had a hard time figuring out how to stop what the giants were doing on both sides of the ball.
    i fear that if we dont get patt back that teams are gonna be able to grind out those 4 yds or more and leave our pass defense flailing again.
    What happened to K-Williams being the greatest DT in football?? I think K-Williams is the most overrated Viking. If he was as good as people think we would not have got ran right over these last two games. Half of his sacks came in one game...that doesn't=consistent pressure to me. We can live without Pat in our game against the Eagles, but if he isn't back after that...Vikings against Atlanta, Carolina, Giants=loss.
    [/quote]

    Ummmmmm you do know that KWill's primary purpose is to stop the run not get sacks.
    He is not the most over-rated Viking.
    Fred Evens is just not that good and isn't able to provide the help they need.
    KWill cannot take on 2 - 300 lb guys at the same time.
    No one can.
    Granted PWill is a big loss but even though they gave up 135 yards rushing this week it wasn't all because of KWill.
    By the way the Giants average 157.4 ypg rushing.
    Last week without Pat they gave up 100 yards to a team that averages almost 152.7 per game.
    I will hardly say he run over.
    [/quote]

    They also didn't play Jacobs. Why did our running D get gashed regularly? I like Kevin, but I don't think he is anywhere near as good as most people regard him to be. One thing that Pat being out these two weeks has shown me is that DT is our number 1 need in the offseason. If KWill isn't the most overrated Viking, then who is??
    [/quote]

    how about to start, Tarvaris Jackson?
    People now are pretending he's the second coming of christ, when really, he was pretty shaky yesterday.
    A couple of dropped picks by the giants that weren't brought the other way are the only reason there's no "Bring back gus" thread right now.

    his stats are 16/26, 239, 1 and 1 for a rating of

    those look goo don paper, but i counted 2 dropped interceptions and one floater throwaway to the middle of the field that might have been a pick if the linebacker was faster/paying attention

    his stats are now 16/26, 249 1 and 4 for a rating of 64.9

    the other guy, perhaps Sharper?
    but he's being ragged on pretty hard lately, i suppose its hard to call someone overrated when he's not rated very highly to begin with, same with birk.


    [/quote]
    did you see the "floater' in the middle of the field? did you see him going to throw it to berrian, only to have AD and tahi miss a block and let the lineman hit him as he threw?
    The bring back the gus thread doesnt exist because T-Jack has 8td's and 1int in the last 3-1/2 games... The pressure that he has gotten would leave gus dead on the field where at least he can run and make something happen

    "i suppose its hard to call someone overrated when he's not rated very highly to begin with"....yet you said t-jack is the most overrated...

    anyways cedric has been playing good, he needs to work on his speed though he gets beat deep alot
    [/quote]

    you seemed to have missed the entire point of my post.
    I can guarantee you, if New York did not drop those interceptions, there would be a "Bring back gus" thread.
    You guys were quick to jump on the TJ bandwagon when he was doing well, one bad game and I bet you'll be just as quick to hop off.


    I said TJ is the most overrated, because yes, many of you here consider him to be great after playing 2 good games, and one mildly satisfactory game against backups.
    He's improving, he's giving us a gleam of hope at the qb position, but he's not what i'd call a solid franchise quality quarterback, which is what many of you are making him out to be, so yes, I'd say he's overrated.

  7. #507
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "singersp" wrote:

    "Chazz" wrote:
    They also didn't play Jacobs. [color=blue]Why did our running D get gashed regularly?
    You do realize I hope, that the Giants have two 1,000+ rushers on their team?

    Judging by your post, I didn't think so.

    Jacobs has 1,089 & Ward, who we faced yesterday, has 1,025. Also, Ward has seen 37 less carries than Jacobs.
    Exactly Singer.
    Also, even without Pat we held them to 22.2 yards less than their yearly average.
    Not sure what the complaining is about here.
    Ward is capable of starting in this league and so is Bradshaw come to think of it.
    Also, they got most their rushing yards with the 1st string so I'm not sure what everyone's griping is about.

  8. #508
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:

    "Chazz" wrote:
    They also didn't play Jacobs. [color=blue]Why did our running D get gashed regularly?
    You do realize I hope, that the Giants have two 1,000+ rushers on their team?

    Judging by your post, I didn't think so.

    Jacobs has 1,089 & Ward, who we faced yesterday, has 1,025. Also, Ward has seen 37 less carries than Jacobs.
    Exactly Singer.
    Also, even without Pat we held them to 22.2 yards less than their yearly average.
    Not sure what the complaining is about here.
    Ward is capable of starting in this league and so is Bradshaw come to think of it.
    Also, they got most their rushing yards with the 1st string so I'm not sure what everyone's griping is about.
    We could not stop the giants run, even without there #1 guy in there. You think we can beat them next time, let alone Carolina, playing the run like we did last week?

  9. #509
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "singersp" wrote:

    "Chazz" wrote:
    They also didn't play Jacobs. [color=blue]Why did our running D get gashed regularly?
    You do realize I hope, that the Giants have two 1,000+ rushers on their team?

    Judging by your post, I didn't think so.

    Jacobs has 1,089 & Ward, who we faced yesterday, has 1,025. Also, Ward has seen 37 less carries than Jacobs.
    Our #1 run D against there #1 run O. They didn't have Jacobs, we didn't have Pat. We got owned....simple as that.

  10. #510
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    Re: Cedric Griffin Not Cutting It

    "Chazz" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:

    "Chazz" wrote:
    They also didn't play Jacobs. [color=blue]Why did our running D get gashed regularly?
    You do realize I hope, that the Giants have two 1,000+ rushers on their team?

    Judging by your post, I didn't think so.

    Jacobs has 1,089 & Ward, who we faced yesterday, has 1,025. Also, Ward has seen 37 less carries than Jacobs.
    Our #1 run D against there #1 run O. They didn't have Jacobs, we didn't have Pat. We got owned....simple as that.
    That's why the Vikings led 10-9 at the half against the Jints' starters and the Jints lost the game.
    i hope we get owned like that again in the playoffs.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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