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  1. #271
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    Re: Game 5 Official Thoughts and Observations

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    They gave up a 62 yard kick return on the opening kickoff. I suppose we should be kicking off out of bounds too and just giving them the ball on the 35,45 or whatever the spot is when the ball is kicked OOB.
    I was thinking the same...Our coverage teams suck all around...How about we do some tackling drills, they seem scared to make a tackle....

  2. #272
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    Re: Game 5 Official Thoughts and Observations

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

    If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.
    Finally, thank you.

    He tried and couldnt

    Thats why he is taking heat
    The problem starts with the entire Special Teams unit. ALL game long, even when bush wasn't returning kicks, the Special Teams were giving up HUGE yardage. The Saints started in great field position all game. That is not only a Kluwe problem, it's the scheme or something as well.

    Bottom line, it's a team sport and the entire special teams sucked Monday night...so to call out one player is ridiculous.
    No!
    The problem STARTS with Klewe ineffectively kicking the ball OOB when told to do so.
    The ST coverage comes after that.
    Don't get me wrong.
    I think the STs have played terrible.
    However, Klewe's ineffectiveness on directional punting and sometimes line driving a kick is a major problem as well.
    If a punt has hang time it doesn't allow much room for a returner.
    If you watch all of Bush's runs he had plenty of room.
    Is that becasue we have slow cover teams?
    No.
    It is becasue they are low kicks.
    Then look at the punt in which Griffith was able to tackle the returner right away.
    That is becasue the punt had plenty of hang time.
    It all starts with the punter my friends.
    So Klewe is responsible for kick off coverage too eh? And the fact we rarely have a good punt or kick return eh? Out ENTIRE St is a joke. Maybe if we had someone with a leg kicking off we could cover.

  3. #273
    Suick's Avatar
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    Re: Game 5 Official Thoughts and Observations

    Didn't Tice put Winfield on the ST a couple of years ago because of the poor tackling?
    I've been a Viking fan since I was just out of diapers, hopefully we get Super Bowl win before I go back in 'em.

  4. #274
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Game 5 Official Thoughts and Observations

    "CCthebest" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=48370.msg849599#msg849599 date=1223485654]
    For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

    If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.
    Finally, thank you.

    He tried and couldnt

    Thats why he is taking heat
    The problem starts with the entire Special Teams unit. ALL game long, even when bush wasn't returning kicks, the Special Teams were giving up HUGE yardage. The Saints started in great field position all game. That is not only a Kluwe problem, it's the scheme or something as well.

    Bottom line, it's a team sport and the entire special teams sucked Monday night...so to call out one player is ridiculous.
    No!
    The problem STARTS with Klewe ineffectively kicking the ball OOB when told to do so.
    The ST coverage comes after that.
    Don't get me wrong.
    I think the STs have played terrible.
    However, Klewe's ineffectiveness on directional punting and sometimes line driving a kick is a major problem as well.
    If a punt has hang time it doesn't allow much room for a returner.
    If you watch all of Bush's runs he had plenty of room.
    Is that becasue we have slow cover teams?
    No.
    It is becasue they are low kicks.
    Then look at the punt in which Griffith was able to tackle the returner right away.
    That is becasue the punt had plenty of hang time.
    It all starts with the punter my friends.
    So Klewe is responsible for kick off coverage too eh? And the fact we rarely have a good punt or kick return eh? Out ENTIRE St is a joke. Maybe if we had someone with a leg kicking off we could cover.
    [/quote]

    Did you read my post?
    I didn't say he was responsible for people not tackling.
    Read my quote that I bolded above.
    That doesn't excuse a professional punter not being able to kick the ball effectively.
    That is where the play starts, EH!!!!!!!!!!!
    I do agree the entire STs are a joke right now.
    But you can't get rid the entire team.
    By the way, some of the starters such as Winfield and Griffin play STs just so you know.


    Read my entire post before you try and diss me my friend.

  5. #275
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    Re: Game 5 Official Thoughts and Observations

    UffDaVikes wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=48370.msg849599#msg849599 date=1223485654]
    For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

    If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

    Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

    He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt
    Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

    Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

    You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.

    So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.
    obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
    We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.
    I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
    However, every return except for one was a long return.
    Therefore you kick it OOB.
    Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
    He was told to do it.
    At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
    Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
    He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
    It was evident in the Saints game.

    Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
    Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
    Plain and simple.
    It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
    He didn't do so and it back-fired.
    I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

    What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

    Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


    If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

    Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.[/quote]

    This guy knew what he was talking about. Now all of a sudden we have guys who are tackling and the punter is magically looking better.

  6. #276
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    Re: Game 5 Official Thoughts and Observations

    Purple Floyd wrote:
    UffDaVikes wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=48370.msg849599#msg849599 date=1223485654]
    For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

    If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

    Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

    He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt
    Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

    Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

    You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.

    So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.
    obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
    We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.
    I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
    However, every return except for one was a long return.
    Therefore you kick it OOB.
    Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
    He was told to do it.
    At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
    Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
    He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
    It was evident in the Saints game.

    Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
    Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
    Plain and simple.
    It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
    He didn't do so and it back-fired.
    I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

    What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

    Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


    If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

    Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.
    This guy knew what he was talking about. Now all of a sudden we have guys who are tackling and the punter is magically looking better.[/quote]
    You do realize that we had starting CB's, S's and LB'rs on those coverage teams. Are you saying they can't tackle?

    WOW.

    Quick question for ya.......Do you think the coverage team has time to look up in the air and watch the ball in flight to see were it is gonna land, or do you think the ST's coord calls the spot for the ball prior to the kick?

    Believe it or not, the ST's coord calls for the spot, the coverage team fights through thier blockers to get to that spot which doesn't allow for them to watch the flight of the ball.

    Because our old ST's coord didn't call the plays that way (yup, ST's calls plays), the coverage teams, in almost every instance was running to a spot that the ball wasn't at.

    Long story short, the reason our coverage teams look better is because they are functioning as a unit, and it all starts with the direction and distance of the punt.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #277
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    Re: Game 5 Official Thoughts and Observations

    At least we're not bringing up 2 year old topics.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  8. #278
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    Re: Game 5 Official Thoughts and Observations

    Marrdro wrote:
    Purple Floyd wrote:
    UffDaVikes wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=48370.msg849599#msg849599 date=1223485654]
    For the life of me I am having a hard time figuring out how it Kluwe's fault that Bush got 2 TD's. For Christs sake there are 10 guys out there who have a responsibility to stay in their lanes and make a tackle when the guy with the ball in in their area. The coverage team got so out of shape in their coverage that he was barely contested on his way to the end zone. That is on the ST coordinator and on the other 10 guys on the field in front of Kluwe.

    If the best strategy that we can employ on ST is to kick the ball out of bounds then I think Lucy has some 'splaining to do.

    Thats why people are mad at Kluwe

    He was told to kick outta bounds and didnt
    Do you know for a fact that he was told to punt out of bounds before the first TD or was that command a reaction to our poor punt coverage on it?

    Like I said, if our ST's are so shitty that they cannot stay in their lanes and make a tackle it certainly isn't Kluwe's fault.

    You should never have to use kicking out of bounds as a winning strategy.

    So if Devin Hester returns 4 punts for touchdown against us we're still kicking it in bounds? That makes no sense. You have to account for the other team having a playmaker back there. Guys like Hester, Bush and Jackson can return punts and kickoffs for TD against any special teams squad. Not kicking it to them is a winning strategy if it gives your team the best chance to stop their team.
    obviously if it came to that, then yes, kick out of bounds, but I think the point he was trying to make is the coverage team needs to be fixed, so that we shouldn't HAVE to kick out of bounds.
    We should be able to kick it right to whoever is back deep, and feel confident we can stop him.
    I am with ya that special teams should be able to cover.
    However, every return except for one was a long return.
    Therefore you kick it OOB.
    Whether or not it was in the game plan doesn't matter.
    He was told to do it.
    At this point in his career if he can't adjust to what he didn't practice during the week as a punter then there is a problem.
    Bottom line is Klewe screwed up at least twice this game and once against the Pack.
    He has a good leg but he has struggled his entire career directionally.
    It was evident in the Saints game.

    Uff - you mentioned that you can't understand why it is Klewe's fault.
    Your answer is because he didn't do what he was told to do.
    Plain and simple.
    It isn't his job to tackle but it is his job to listen to his boss just like any other job.
    He didn't do so and it back-fired.
    I am not making the argument that he should not kick out of bounds. If he was told to and didn't then obviously that is a problem.

    What I am saying is giving up 2 td's to bush is not his problem. It is a problem of a shitty ST unit.

    Bush has never had 2 TD's in a season in his career let alone one game and he really should have had 3 against us. The reason for that is not because we are the only team punting the ball in bounds in the league, it is because we are perhaps the worst in the league on St coverage.


    If anybody can produce stats to me that every team the saints have faced always punt out of bounds and we were the only ones to punt to him then I will ceded the point. Until then we just need to be in the right place and tackle the return guy.

    Hell, it's not like other teams have that problem against us.
    This guy knew what he was talking about. Now all of a sudden we have guys who are tackling and the punter is magically looking better.
    You do realize that we had starting CB's, S's and LB'rs on those coverage teams. Are you saying they can't tackle?

    WOW.

    Quick question for ya.......Do you think the coverage team has time to look up in the air and watch the ball in flight to see were it is gonna land, or do you think the ST's coord calls the spot for the ball prior to the kick?

    Believe it or not, the ST's coord calls for the spot, the coverage team fights through thier blockers to get to that spot which doesn't allow for them to watch the flight of the ball.

    Because our old ST's coord didn't call the plays that way (yup, ST's calls plays), the coverage teams, in almost every instance was running to a spot that the ball wasn't at.

    Long story short, the reason our coverage teams look better is because they are functioning as a unit, and it all starts with the direction and distance of the punt.[/quote]

    Yes, we had a few but for the love of god the whole ST unit was not made up of the starting unit. But I am sure you hoped that that one would slip by lol. It didn't.

    The rest of it was just the typical marr smoke screen. Bottom line is Kluwe then and now are the same person. What has changed is the coaching and the personnel that are doing the tackling.

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