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  1. #11
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099274
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099270
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1099242
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098902
    First, its good to get back and see the that Newshound is on the site. Love commenting on the stuff he posts.......

    Second........YOWZA......No way thats a Vikings Cheerleader....



    Third, a great read my friend. Some interesting nuggets.....
    He took a zone-based defense that had gained the reputation of bend-don’t-break and turned it into a temporary jailbreak against arguably the most feared running quarterback to ever play the game,
    There is an actual term/name for the defense, its called a "Pressure Zone". Been saying it all offseason. Best team to watch run it is the Steelers. They've been doing almost exclusively for 2 years now.

    He took the Vikings’ most reliable and accomplished cornerback, Antoine Winfield, and fired him into the Philadelphia backfield relentlessly
    Whinny would best be served (along with the team) if he was moved to S or atleast inside and only came in on the nickle.

    The key will be how well Pagac can mask his intentions from game to game in the film-intensive NFL, where secrets are exposed as soon as they are executed on the field.
    Everyone seemed to beeeeyatch about how predictable our offense was. I, on the other hand, believe that Leslies biggest problem as a D-coord was predictability. I, for one got tired of watching Chad and EJ "Mugging the Line" on almost every play.
    If your gonna blitz out of a C2 defense then you better not let the offense know its coming or you will get torched.
    Remember Mardro, he couldve been hog tied by the Chiller as to the overall look/scheme/# of blitzes. As soon as he took over the interim HC role the Defense looked much different......

    Also I am of the opinion that we will see Pagac and Frazier move guys around to be the most effective Ie Winny short side blitzes in the Philadelphia game.
    Nope, not buying it. For to many years I've been told the defense was good because the Chiller didn't have any say in it and only messed with the offense.
    Where in the hell did you hear that? I guarantee Chilly had a say, he just didn't call the plays. Chilly is an offensive guy with a rough understanding of our defense. He ran our offense, despite handing playcalling over to Bevell for some time, he still called the shots. I gaurantee you in meetings, Childress had far more input than he needed to have as to how we ran the D.

    Have you noticed, between Tomlin and Fraizer, our D remained pretty much the same. Tampa-2, but we don't press with the corners. Our LB's blitz while playing zone, leaving huge gaps. I'm thinking that's Chilly's work.


    Then you mix in the multiple quotes from Leslie himself saying that he had nothing to do with the scheme tweaks or play calling once he took over as interim HC.
    Yeah, because Fraizer isn't a narcissistic fuck like Childress is.
    In the end, if nothing else comes out of the Chiller firing, the little fact that Leslie isn't messing with the defense anymore gives me solice.
    you keep believing that.
    Are you trying to tell me you've never read on here once that the Chiller left Tomlin and Frazier alone?

    Gimme a break. Our defensive problems went away when Pagac took over. Again, Leslie himself said that he had no hand in the weekly gameplans or did any play calling.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099280
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099274
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099270
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1099242
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098902
    First, its good to get back and see the that Newshound is on the site. Love commenting on the stuff he posts.......

    Second........YOWZA......No way thats a Vikings Cheerleader....



    Third, a great read my friend. Some interesting nuggets.....
    He took a zone-based defense that had gained the reputation of bend-don’t-break and turned it into a temporary jailbreak against arguably the most feared running quarterback to ever play the game,
    There is an actual term/name for the defense, its called a "Pressure Zone". Been saying it all offseason. Best team to watch run it is the Steelers. They've been doing almost exclusively for 2 years now.

    He took the Vikings’ most reliable and accomplished cornerback, Antoine Winfield, and fired him into the Philadelphia backfield relentlessly
    Whinny would best be served (along with the team) if he was moved to S or atleast inside and only came in on the nickle.

    The key will be how well Pagac can mask his intentions from game to game in the film-intensive NFL, where secrets are exposed as soon as they are executed on the field.
    Everyone seemed to beeeeyatch about how predictable our offense was. I, on the other hand, believe that Leslies biggest problem as a D-coord was predictability. I, for one got tired of watching Chad and EJ "Mugging the Line" on almost every play.
    If your gonna blitz out of a C2 defense then you better not let the offense know its coming or you will get torched.
    Remember Mardro, he couldve been hog tied by the Chiller as to the overall look/scheme/# of blitzes. As soon as he took over the interim HC role the Defense looked much different......

    Also I am of the opinion that we will see Pagac and Frazier move guys around to be the most effective Ie Winny short side blitzes in the Philadelphia game.
    Nope, not buying it. For to many years I've been told the defense was good because the Chiller didn't have any say in it and only messed with the offense.
    Where in the hell did you hear that? I guarantee Chilly had a say, he just didn't call the plays. Chilly is an offensive guy with a rough understanding of our defense. He ran our offense, despite handing playcalling over to Bevell for some time, he still called the shots. I gaurantee you in meetings, Childress had far more input than he needed to have as to how we ran the D.

    Have you noticed, between Tomlin and Fraizer, our D remained pretty much the same. Tampa-2, but we don't press with the corners. Our LB's blitz while playing zone, leaving huge gaps. I'm thinking that's Chilly's work.


    Then you mix in the multiple quotes from Leslie himself saying that he had nothing to do with the scheme tweaks or play calling once he took over as interim HC.
    Yeah, because Fraizer isn't a narcissistic fuck like Childress is.
    In the end, if nothing else comes out of the Chiller firing, the little fact that Leslie isn't messing with the defense anymore gives me solice.
    you keep believing that.
    Are you trying to tell me you've never read on here once that the Chiller left Tomlin and Frazier alone?
    sure, maybe someone said that once, but that's like believing a 10 year old girl telling you Santa is real. She said it's true, but conventional wisdom will tell you otherwise.

    Gimme a break. Our defensive problems went away when Pagac took over. Again, Leslie himself said that he had no hand in the weekly gameplans or did any play calling.
    Funny, Pagac taking over just happened to coincide with Chilly getting fired. Coincidence? I think not.

    Chilly was incredibly hands-on, you can't deny that. Why would you possibly think he had no say in the defense?

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099285
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099280
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099274
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099270
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1099242
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098902
    First, its good to get back and see the that Newshound is on the site. Love commenting on the stuff he posts.......

    Second........YOWZA......No way thats a Vikings Cheerleader....



    Third, a great read my friend. Some interesting nuggets.....
    He took a zone-based defense that had gained the reputation of bend-don’t-break and turned it into a temporary jailbreak against arguably the most feared running quarterback to ever play the game,
    There is an actual term/name for the defense, its called a "Pressure Zone". Been saying it all offseason. Best team to watch run it is the Steelers. They've been doing almost exclusively for 2 years now.

    He took the Vikings’ most reliable and accomplished cornerback, Antoine Winfield, and fired him into the Philadelphia backfield relentlessly
    Whinny would best be served (along with the team) if he was moved to S or atleast inside and only came in on the nickle.

    The key will be how well Pagac can mask his intentions from game to game in the film-intensive NFL, where secrets are exposed as soon as they are executed on the field.
    Everyone seemed to beeeeyatch about how predictable our offense was. I, on the other hand, believe that Leslies biggest problem as a D-coord was predictability. I, for one got tired of watching Chad and EJ "Mugging the Line" on almost every play.
    If your gonna blitz out of a C2 defense then you better not let the offense know its coming or you will get torched.
    Remember Mardro, he couldve been hog tied by the Chiller as to the overall look/scheme/# of blitzes. As soon as he took over the interim HC role the Defense looked much different......

    Also I am of the opinion that we will see Pagac and Frazier move guys around to be the most effective Ie Winny short side blitzes in the Philadelphia game.
    Nope, not buying it. For to many years I've been told the defense was good because the Chiller didn't have any say in it and only messed with the offense.
    Where in the hell did you hear that? I guarantee Chilly had a say, he just didn't call the plays. Chilly is an offensive guy with a rough understanding of our defense. He ran our offense, despite handing playcalling over to Bevell for some time, he still called the shots. I gaurantee you in meetings, Childress had far more input than he needed to have as to how we ran the D.

    Have you noticed, between Tomlin and Fraizer, our D remained pretty much the same. Tampa-2, but we don't press with the corners. Our LB's blitz while playing zone, leaving huge gaps. I'm thinking that's Chilly's work.


    Then you mix in the multiple quotes from Leslie himself saying that he had nothing to do with the scheme tweaks or play calling once he took over as interim HC.
    Yeah, because Fraizer isn't a narcissistic fuck like Childress is.
    In the end, if nothing else comes out of the Chiller firing, the little fact that Leslie isn't messing with the defense anymore gives me solice.
    you keep believing that.
    Are you trying to tell me you've never read on here once that the Chiller left Tomlin and Frazier alone?
    sure, maybe someone said that once, but that's like believing a 10 year old girl telling you Santa is real. She said it's true, but conventional wisdom will tell you otherwise.

    Gimme a break. Our defensive problems went away when Pagac took over. Again, Leslie himself said that he had no hand in the weekly gameplans or did any play calling.
    Funny, Pagac taking over just happened to coincide with Chilly getting fired. Coincidence? I think not.

    Chilly was incredibly hands-on, you can't deny that. Why would you possibly think he had no say in the defense?
    Two things.....

    1. I never once said he didn't have a say. I'm only saying that alot of people on here repeatedly told me that the defense was good over his tenure cause he left Tomlin and Leslie alone. Please don't confuse that issue.


    2. The defense got better last year when Pagac took over. Again, Lelsie credits coach Pagac and has repeatedly said that he had no hand in the gameplans or playcalling.

    Think what you will, but we never saw the defense play like that when Leslie was in charge of it.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099286
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099285
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099280
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099274
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099270
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1099242
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098902
    First, its good to get back and see the that Newshound is on the site. Love commenting on the stuff he posts.......

    Second........YOWZA......No way thats a Vikings Cheerleader....



    Third, a great read my friend. Some interesting nuggets.....
    He took a zone-based defense that had gained the reputation of bend-don’t-break and turned it into a temporary jailbreak against arguably the most feared running quarterback to ever play the game,
    There is an actual term/name for the defense, its called a "Pressure Zone". Been saying it all offseason. Best team to watch run it is the Steelers. They've been doing almost exclusively for 2 years now.

    He took the Vikings’ most reliable and accomplished cornerback, Antoine Winfield, and fired him into the Philadelphia backfield relentlessly
    Whinny would best be served (along with the team) if he was moved to S or atleast inside and only came in on the nickle.

    The key will be how well Pagac can mask his intentions from game to game in the film-intensive NFL, where secrets are exposed as soon as they are executed on the field.
    Everyone seemed to beeeeyatch about how predictable our offense was. I, on the other hand, believe that Leslies biggest problem as a D-coord was predictability. I, for one got tired of watching Chad and EJ "Mugging the Line" on almost every play.
    If your gonna blitz out of a C2 defense then you better not let the offense know its coming or you will get torched.
    Remember Mardro, he couldve been hog tied by the Chiller as to the overall look/scheme/# of blitzes. As soon as he took over the interim HC role the Defense looked much different......

    Also I am of the opinion that we will see Pagac and Frazier move guys around to be the most effective Ie Winny short side blitzes in the Philadelphia game.
    Nope, not buying it. For to many years I've been told the defense was good because the Chiller didn't have any say in it and only messed with the offense.
    Where in the hell did you hear that? I guarantee Chilly had a say, he just didn't call the plays. Chilly is an offensive guy with a rough understanding of our defense. He ran our offense, despite handing playcalling over to Bevell for some time, he still called the shots. I gaurantee you in meetings, Childress had far more input than he needed to have as to how we ran the D.

    Have you noticed, between Tomlin and Fraizer, our D remained pretty much the same. Tampa-2, but we don't press with the corners. Our LB's blitz while playing zone, leaving huge gaps. I'm thinking that's Chilly's work.


    Then you mix in the multiple quotes from Leslie himself saying that he had nothing to do with the scheme tweaks or play calling once he took over as interim HC.
    Yeah, because Fraizer isn't a narcissistic fuck like Childress is.
    In the end, if nothing else comes out of the Chiller firing, the little fact that Leslie isn't messing with the defense anymore gives me solice.
    you keep believing that.
    Are you trying to tell me you've never read on here once that the Chiller left Tomlin and Frazier alone?
    sure, maybe someone said that once, but that's like believing a 10 year old girl telling you Santa is real. She said it's true, but conventional wisdom will tell you otherwise.

    Gimme a break. Our defensive problems went away when Pagac took over. Again, Leslie himself said that he had no hand in the weekly gameplans or did any play calling.
    Funny, Pagac taking over just happened to coincide with Chilly getting fired. Coincidence? I think not.

    Chilly was incredibly hands-on, you can't deny that. Why would you possibly think he had no say in the defense?
    Two things.....

    1. I never once said he didn't have a say. I'm only saying that alot of people on here repeatedly told me that the defense was good over his tenure cause he left Tomlin and Leslie alone. Please don't confuse that issue.
    Again, do you believe everything you hear on the internet?

    2. The defense got better last year when Pagac took over. Again, Lelsie credits coach Pagac and has repeatedly said that he had no hand in the gameplans or playcalling.
    Of course he does. Leslie is a good guy, he's not going to say "Pagac took my D, but since Chilly wasn't holding me back, we all see what it really could have been like".

    No, he credits Pagac for running it well, as he should. I'm sure he didn't have a hand in playcalling, but remember, he helped create that D. Pagac didn't completely re-work the defense, he's calling Fraizers plays, without any meddling from an offensive minded, ultra-conservative head coach.
    Think what you will, but we never saw the defense play like that when Leslie was in charge of it.
    I never saw the defense play like that when Childress was in charge of it either.


    It's like me riding an elephant over your car. You're blaming the elephant, when really it was me guiding the elephant where to go.

    Fraizer is the elephant. Without him, there's no defense (damage to your car), but the little guy on top is the one doing the steering.

  5. #15
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099287
    Again, do you believe everything you hear on the internet?
    Of course I don't. Go back, re-read my comment and think of it as me poking the yutz's in the eye who said it. Maybe then it will make more sense to you.

    Of course he does. Leslie is a good guy, he's not going to say "Pagac took my D, but since Chilly wasn't holding me back, we all see what it really could have been like".
    SPIN SPIN SPIN.


    No, he credits Pagac for running it well, as he should. I'm sure he didn't have a hand in playcalling, but remember, he helped create that D. Pagac didn't completely re-work the defense, he's calling Fraizers plays, without any meddling from an offensive minded, ultra-conservative head coach.
    First Leslie dind't create that D. It was created long before he or Tomlin came around.

    Second, we have never seen the defensive play calling like we saw after Pagac took over.

    Spin it how you will, but Leslie said it was all Pagac. To sit here and think that coach Childress prevented Leslie from blitzing is crazy cause Leslie blitzed alot. The difference was that Pagac used it differently, mostly related to hiding were it was coming from and what he showed (presnap) with his LB'rs.

    Significant difference my friend and nothing that you can say will make me think its cause the Chiller left other than to say when the Chiller left, Leslie stepped away from the defense and focused on "Team" stuff as a whole, as he has repeatedly stated.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099288
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099287
    Again, do you believe everything you hear on the internet?
    Of course I don't. Go back, re-read my comment and think of it as me poking the yutz's in the eye who said it. Maybe then it will make more sense to you.

    Of course he does. Leslie is a good guy, he's not going to say "Pagac took my D, but since Chilly wasn't holding me back, we all see what it really could have been like".
    SPIN SPIN SPIN.


    No, he credits Pagac for running it well, as he should. I'm sure he didn't have a hand in playcalling, but remember, he helped create that D. Pagac didn't completely re-work the defense, he's calling Fraizers plays, without any meddling from an offensive minded, ultra-conservative head coach.
    First Leslie dind't create that D. It was created long before he or Tomlin came around.
    Sorry, Fraizer took the D in place, and make it his D. Better?

    Second, we have never seen the defensive play calling like we saw after Pagac took over.
    And there was more than one factor which could have contributed to that, why is it difficult to see that?

    Spin it how you will, but Leslie said it was all Pagac. To sit here and think that coach Childress prevented Leslie from blitzing is crazy cause Leslie blitzed alot. The difference was that Pagac used it differently, mostly related to hiding were it was coming from and what he showed (presnap) with his LB'rs.
    And I'm sure the playcalling is all Pagac. Leslie seems liek a guy who will be pretty hands-off when it comes to being a HC. He'll want to be kept in the loop, but aside from just knowing what's going on, he doesn't meddle. Possibly because he knows how frustrating it is to be micromanaged?

    Significant difference my friend and nothing that you can say will make me think its cause the Chiller left other than to say when the Chiller left, Leslie stepped away from the defense and focused on "Team" stuff as a whole, as he has repeatedly stated.
    Yeah, and nothing there indicates that Chilly did or did not meddle with the D.

    Again, everything I've read would point towards the fact that he did. You, and select few 'yutz's on the internet claim he didn't.

  7. #17
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    All I am saying is that the HC has an influence on the Defense and the style with which it plays. As to the individual calls and keys not so much, but they still have a say.

    Just like in Madden, you go in and set your team profile up. Ie our defense is a 4-3 Base by and large that runs the cover 2, focuses on stopping the run, and we try to get pressure with our front four, with limited blitzing.

    Chilly gets fired, Frazier takes the HC role and put Pagac in the mix. From there we see a varied look out of the 4-3 base, focus on stopping the run, but more blitzing. Which in hindsight couldve been to help cover up a dinged secondary.

    Either way to say that a HC doesnt influence the style his Defense plays is ridiculous. Even if it only boils down to the freedom they give their coordinators to handle their side of the ball.

  8. #18
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1099291
    All I am saying is that the HC has an influence on the Defense and the style with which it plays. As to the individual calls and keys not so much, but they still have a say.

    Just like in Madden, you go in and set your team profile up. Ie our defense is a 4-3 Base by and large that runs the cover 2, focuses on stopping the run, and we try to get pressure with our front four, with limited blitzing.

    Chilly gets fired, Frazier takes the HC role and put Pagac in the mix. From there we see a varied look out of the 4-3 base, focus on stopping the run, but more blitzing. Which in hindsight couldve been to help cover up a dinged secondary.

    Either way to say that a HC doesnt influence the style his Defense plays is ridiculous. Even if it only boils down to the freedom they give their coordinators to handle their side of the ball.
    Don't bring Madden into the mix, you'll only confuse him.

    He's of the impression anybody that plays the game runs nothing but edge/outside runs, play action and four verticals, then blitz 8 every play, and they know nothing about real football, gap names, route numbering, player positioning, etc.

  9. #19
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/24/three-years-of-pass-rushing-productivity-linebackers/

    Pretty interesting article on blitzing and Pass Rush Production. I was surprised to see our trio towards the top of the lists...In 2010 Greenway came in 3rd with EJ 12th, but over the past 3 years combined, Ben Leber had the best production in the leage (according to this formula.) I hope we keep him around!

    That’s the 2010 study, now we’re upping the qualifying minimum to 200 and looking back at the past three years. We find 38 qualifiers to go under the microscope; a class headed by a surprising candidate. Indeed, it’s Ben Leber who leads the way, and is one of two Minnesota Vikings in the Top 5. The only reason another one (E.J. Henderson) isn’t in there alongside them (his PRP is actually better than Chad Greenway’s) is his lack of snaps. What this should tell you is that, in simple terms, the Vikings blitz efficiently. That, and the fact that it doesn’t hurt having a trio of pass rushers like Kevin Williams, Ray Edwards and Jared Allen up front. Extra focus on them is bound to make life a little easier for the guys coming from deeper.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  10. #20
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    Re: Fred Pagac believes in the blitz

    Quote Originally Posted by "mountainviking" #1099386
    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/24/three-years-of-pass-rushing-productivity-linebackers/

    Pretty interesting article on blitzing and Pass Rush Production. I was surprised to see our trio towards the top of the lists...In 2010 Greenway came in 3rd with EJ 12th, but over the past 3 years combined, Ben Leber had the best production in the leage (according to this formula.) I hope we keep him around!

    That’s the 2010 study, now we’re upping the qualifying minimum to 200 and looking back at the past three years. We find 38 qualifiers to go under the microscope; a class headed by a surprising candidate. Indeed, it’s Ben Leber who leads the way, and is one of two Minnesota Vikings in the Top 5. The only reason another one (E.J. Henderson) isn’t in there alongside them (his PRP is actually better than Chad Greenway’s) is his lack of snaps. What this should tell you is that, in simple terms, the Vikings blitz efficiently. That, and the fact that it doesn’t hurt having a trio of pass rushers like Kevin Williams, Ray Edwards and Jared Allen up front. Extra focus on them is bound to make life a little easier for the guys coming from deeper.
    I could see our D working great as a 3-4. Jared/Kevin/Griffen(or Robison or Edwards or whoever stays). Than running with Greenway and Leber as OLB, Henderson and Brinkley (or Farwell) at MLB. Under pressure anyone?

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