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  1. #11
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092446
    Quote Originally Posted by "MNgriff" #1092421
    I think I rather have the roster spot as well. His lack of production last year really showed. With the turnover we're expecting to see on the defensive side of the ball not giving someone the snaps to step up and gel with the unit seems like a major mistake.

    As far as being a great locker room guy I can't say. My personal experience meeting him didn't leave me with the best impression. Also I remember the tirade he had on the Power Trip crew mid-season, so I just don't see it.
    Good post my friend. One question though, what is the Power Trip thing?
    I was about to just say, "you're dead to me!" Then I remembered you're in the South East :laughstill a bit shocked you don't at least listen to KFAN podcasts..not even PA!?). The local sports talk radio channel, KFAN, calls the morning drive show the Power Trip, with The Superstar Mike Morris, Cory Cove, Chris Hawkey, and Meatsauce. Pat went off on Hawk for asking E.J. Henderson in a locker room interview how he would address the mobility of Rodgers. Hawk is a super nice guy and it was a typical media question that called for the same canned player response. Pat went off with a profanity laced tirade about how Hawk should be banned for even asking about an aspect of the game plan. Just seemed to me like another guy that is great as long as things are good.

    Of course we have no idea how Free Agency will look with a new CBA, but here is a piece looking at pro football focus' top rated FA DTs/3-4 DEs. Even if you don't go that route I'd rather have a late-round rookie get snaps over Pat. We need to find an answer at some point, Pat is no longer it and I'd rather have someone who has a slim chance of solidifying the position for many years then a stop gap that is in rapid decline.
    Skol

  2. #12
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "MNgriff" #1092466
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092446
    Quote Originally Posted by "MNgriff" #1092421
    I think I rather have the roster spot as well. His lack of production last year really showed. With the turnover we're expecting to see on the defensive side of the ball not giving someone the snaps to step up and gel with the unit seems like a major mistake.

    As far as being a great locker room guy I can't say. My personal experience meeting him didn't leave me with the best impression. Also I remember the tirade he had on the Power Trip crew mid-season, so I just don't see it.
    Good post my friend. One question though, what is the Power Trip thing?
    I was about to just say, "you're dead to me!" Then I remembered you're in the South East :laughstill a bit shocked you don't at least listen to KFAN podcasts..not even PA!?). The local sports talk radio channel, KFAN, calls the morning drive show the Power Trip, with The Superstar Mike Morris, Cory Cove, Chris Hawkey, and Meatsauce. Pat went off on Hawk for asking E.J. Henderson in a locker room interview how he would address the mobility of Rodgers. Hawk is a super nice guy and it was a typical media question that called for the same canned player response. Pat went off with a profanity laced tirade about how Hawk should be banned for even asking about an aspect of the game plan. Just seemed to me like another guy that is great as long as things are good.

    Of course we have no idea how Free Agency will look with a new CBA, but here is a piece looking at pro football focus' top rated FA DTs/3-4 DEs. Even if you don't go that route I'd rather have a late-round rookie get snaps over Pat. We need to find an answer at some point, Pat is no longer it and I'd rather have someone who has a slim chance of solidifying the position for many years then a stop gap that is in rapid decline.
    I think it is time for Pat to move on, despite the fact he was injured last year.
    But you would be hard pressed to find a late round rookie with the skill set Pat had in his prime.
    Only a handful of players walk this earth with that capability.
    Unfortunately for us, Pat's time has probably passed.

    You will be very lucky to find a late round draft pick that can replace him.
    In fact, I see the Vikings defense changing anyway with Pat gone.
    I don't think we will look to replace him.
    We will give up more yards to the run, but hopefully get better penetration up the middle and rank higher against the pass.

    After all, if you want to beat Green bay, you have to stop the pass.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1092456
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092443
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1092424
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092402
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1092364
    I'd lov eto have the big guy back. Yeah, he's not as good as he was, but he's still a decent option. I don't feel comfortable with Jimmy K or GUion starting quite yet.
    Not sure why you don't like Guion. Kid looked great in the limited reps he got. Especially liked what he and Griff (LDE) did when he was in there next to him.

    Gotta keep JK for reps, but I don't see him starting. Cat still wants to play on the outside. He, IMHO can play in that "Limited Role" that Leslie is talking about which would give us a roster spot that we could put another youngster in.

    As far as Phat Pat. Time for him to move on. 5 good reps a game just isn't worth the roster spot IMHO.

    On a side note, Leslie better either quit talking to vets or quit admitting to it or the team is going to get sanctions (loss of picks or fined) for talking to players in the current atmosphere we are in.
    Guion played alright, but not at a starter level, Pat is still better, and if given the choice I'd rathe rhave aguy like Pat back

    As for the last bit, he never said when he talked with Pat. Could have been a while ago when he made those comments initially.
    Just read in one of the articles I just posted that he talked to him before the lockout so we are safe there.

    As to Guion, how did you expect him to play. 2nd year, still learning the game. 3rd years should be were we see the lights really come on. By the way, I don't think Pat is any better at this point if for no other reason he is only better than Guion for 5 plays a game.
    That's not the point. You don't just rush guys out there because they don't look completely awful. You should stick the best player you can. Guion is a good depth player at this point, but still has alot to learn.

    I would rather have Guion out there for those 5 plus 15 or so more. Would he make us forget Phat Pat? Probably not, but the defense would probably be more consistent.
    And your choice is Phat Pat? Obviously you weren't watching him close last year.

    Quick question, why did coach Pagac put Guion and Griff out there when he did and why did the defense start playing better with those two out there?

    Could it possibly have something to do with youth, vigor, fresh legs, play makers instead of a old dude that looked like he was taking plays off at times?

    Seriously, you know how much I love the big guy, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna say what needs to be said. Its time for a change. What we saw at the end of the season kindof equates to me that the coaches think so as well.

    Besides, your saying the same things about Griff (LDE) and Guion as you were saying about Griff (CB) and Chad.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092517
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1092456
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092443
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1092424
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092402
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1092364
    I'd lov eto have the big guy back. Yeah, he's not as good as he was, but he's still a decent option. I don't feel comfortable with Jimmy K or GUion starting quite yet.
    Not sure why you don't like Guion. Kid looked great in the limited reps he got. Especially liked what he and Griff (LDE) did when he was in there next to him.

    Gotta keep JK for reps, but I don't see him starting. Cat still wants to play on the outside. He, IMHO can play in that "Limited Role" that Leslie is talking about which would give us a roster spot that we could put another youngster in.

    As far as Phat Pat. Time for him to move on. 5 good reps a game just isn't worth the roster spot IMHO.

    On a side note, Leslie better either quit talking to vets or quit admitting to it or the team is going to get sanctions (loss of picks or fined) for talking to players in the current atmosphere we are in.
    Guion played alright, but not at a starter level, Pat is still better, and if given the choice I'd rathe rhave aguy like Pat back

    As for the last bit, he never said when he talked with Pat. Could have been a while ago when he made those comments initially.
    Just read in one of the articles I just posted that he talked to him before the lockout so we are safe there.

    As to Guion, how did you expect him to play. 2nd year, still learning the game. 3rd years should be were we see the lights really come on. By the way, I don't think Pat is any better at this point if for no other reason he is only better than Guion for 5 plays a game.
    That's not the point. You don't just rush guys out there because they don't look completely awful. You should stick the best player you can. Guion is a good depth player at this point, but still has alot to learn.

    I would rather have Guion out there for those 5 plus 15 or so more. Would he make us forget Phat Pat? Probably not, but the defense would probably be more consistent.
    And your choice is Phat Pat? Obviously you weren't watching him close last year.

    Quick question, why did coach Pagac put Guion and Griff out there when he did and why did the defense start playing better with those two out there?

    Could it possibly have something to do with youth, vigor, fresh legs, play makers instead of a old dude that looked like he was taking plays off at times?

    Seriously, you know how much I love the big guy, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna say what needs to be said. Its time for a change. What we saw at the end of the season kindof equates to me that the coaches think so as well.

    Besides, your saying the same things about Griff (LDE) and Guion as you were saying about Griff (CB) and Chad.
    yes and no. Firstly, Griff WAS awful when he started, I would have rather had someone else out there. Griff can play nickel if needed. I NEVER had an issue with Chad, I was one of the few who thought he played pretty damn well right out of the gate.

  5. #15
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092479
    But you would be hard pressed to find a late round rookie with the skill set Pat had in his prime.
    I'm not sure I agree my friend. Paea and Taylor are right in there when it comes to what Phat Pat does as a 0 tech NT in our 4-3 scheme.

    Truth of the matter is, some of the sites are now projecting Taylor ahead of Fairley with Fairley slipping into our range. Mostly because of the 1 year wonder thing but also some teams haven't really liked his interviews.

    I listened to him on "Moving the Chains" last night. He sure wasn't very impressive when they were asking about his role in a "firezone blitz" or what he should do as the contain end if he was stunting with the DE.

    Kirwan later explained that fans shouldn't pay to close attention to his poor interview cause his strength wasn't selling himself in a suite or on the chalkboard.

    Long story short, I would take any of those 3 in a minute and let Phat Pat walk.
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  6. #16
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092519
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092479
    But you would be hard pressed to find a late round rookie with the skill set Pat had in his prime.
    I'm not sure I agree my friend. Paea and Taylor are right in there when it comes to what Phat Pat does as a 0 tech NT in our 4-3 scheme.
    So you're saying a rookie is just as good as one of the top big-boy DT's in his prime?

  7. #17
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1092521
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092519
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092479
    But you would be hard pressed to find a late round rookie with the skill set Pat had in his prime.
    I'm not sure I agree my friend. Paea and Taylor are right in there when it comes to what Phat Pat does as a 0 tech NT in our 4-3 scheme.
    So you're saying a rookie is just as good as one of the top big-boy DT's in his prime?
    Nope, didn't say his prime. Thats what Doc said. I am only worried about the here and now.

    All 4 of the top DT's in this draft, probably even 5 if you like Austin (I don't)would be more productive that Phat Pat, mostly because he just doens't ahve the gas anymore. Of the 4, I think both Dareas, Paea and Taylor are better suited to play the 0 tech that Phat Pat does for our scheme (in that order).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #18
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092519
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092479
    But you would be hard pressed to find a late round rookie with the skill set Pat had in his prime.
    I'm not sure I agree my friend. Paea and Taylor are right in there when it comes to what Phat Pat does as a 0 tech NT in our 4-3 scheme.

    Truth of the matter is, some of the sites are now projecting Taylor ahead of Fairley with Fairley slipping into our range. Mostly because of the 1 year wonder thing but also some teams haven't really liked his interviews.

    I listened to him on "Moving the Chains" last night. He sure wasn't very impressive when they were asking about his role in a "firezone blitz" or what he should do as the contain end if he was stunting with the DE.

    Kirwan later explained that fans shouldn't pay to close attention to his poor interview cause his strength wasn't selling himself in a suite or on the chalkboard.

    Long story short, I would take any of those 3 in a minute and let Phat Pat walk.
    You take one sentence from my post and respond to it out of context and ignore what that sentance actually says.
    You chose to ignore the phrase, 'in his prime', because it doesn't support your point. Yet go on to say you would take most any of the top tackles in this draft over Pat.
    Well hell Marty, we all would. But the post I was responding to said you could find someone to replace Pat in the later rounds.

    I said I think it is time for Pat to go. Did you miss that.

    For clarification, I don't want to replace Pat with a late round pick who can play as good as Pat plays now. I want to replace him with someone who can play like he did when he was in his prime.

    Even though it happens,I think you have a hard time finding guys like that in the later rounds.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  9. #19
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092528
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092519
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092479
    But you would be hard pressed to find a late round rookie with the skill set Pat had in his prime.
    I'm not sure I agree my friend. Paea and Taylor are right in there when it comes to what Phat Pat does as a 0 tech NT in our 4-3 scheme.

    Truth of the matter is, some of the sites are now projecting Taylor ahead of Fairley with Fairley slipping into our range. Mostly because of the 1 year wonder thing but also some teams haven't really liked his interviews.

    I listened to him on "Moving the Chains" last night. He sure wasn't very impressive when they were asking about his role in a "firezone blitz" or what he should do as the contain end if he was stunting with the DE.

    Kirwan later explained that fans shouldn't pay to close attention to his poor interview cause his strength wasn't selling himself in a suite or on the chalkboard.

    Long story short, I would take any of those 3 in a minute and let Phat Pat walk.
    You take one sentence from my post and respond to it out of context and ignore what that sentance actually says.
    You chose to ignore the phrase, 'in his prime', because it doesn't support your point. Yet go on to say you would take most any of the top tackles in this draft over Pat.
    Well hell Marty, we all would. But the post I was responding to said you could find someone to replace Pat in the later rounds.

    I said I think it is time for Pat to go. Did you miss that.

    For clarification, I don't want to replace Pat with a late round pick who can play as good as Pat plays now. I want to replace him with someone who can play like he did when he was in his prime.

    Even though it happens,I think you have a hard time finding guys like that in the later rounds.
    If there is a way that we could get Dareus he would be an instant upgrade IMO, but we wont get a shot at him.

  10. #20
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    Re: Frazier wants Fat Pat Back

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092402
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1092364
    I'd lov eto have the big guy back. Yeah, he's not as good as he was, but he's still a decent option. I don't feel comfortable with Jimmy K or GUion starting quite yet.
    Not sure why you don't like Guion. Kid looked great in the limited reps he got. Especially liked what he and Griff (LDE) did when he was in there next to him..
    +1

    I liked what i saw out of Guion too, he was one of the few highlights of a pretty poor season for me.

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