Thread: Frazier: Vikings “not giving up on the 2011 season”

Originally Posted by Marrdro

In short, Griff isn't our issue. He's a damn fine C2 CB

Rube translation- Like Griffin, the C2 sucks.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Why? Cause he did what he was supposed to do, bite on the move to the outside by Hester and couldn't recover in time to blanket him?

You do realize he is supposed to keep to the outside on that and is supposed to rely on the S coming out of the cloud coverage to help.

You want to hack on someone for that play, start with the DL that need help, the S that was sent to help and didn't get there cause he hesitated, but don't say that it is indicative of Griff being slow.

He has run fine with bigger and better recievers this year, to the point he has been playing both sides.

In short, Griff isn't our issue. He's a damn fine C2 CB. But hey, if your looking for him to stay with Hester like Revis could, I can see that, but Revis isn't a C2 CB now is he?

You are a persistent one on the defensive line pressure. This is undoubtedly the strength of our defense, but they do still require 7 guys behind them doing their jobs in order to be successful. You seem to believe that we could put any 7 out there and be just fine as in theory the QB should never have time to get the ball off if the DL is doing it's job. Even when competitor's play max protect to isolate from our one defensive strength, you still lay the lion's share of the blame on them.

A little exaggeration there, but not a lot. It is a two way street, if we had better play from our secondary and linebacker's, you would see more sacks and pressure applied. This has been our achilles heel on defense for a very long time, it's time the team and Marrdro start acknowledging it.

Chicago made it look real simple. Keep 8 into block, send out two receivers and wait until they hit the gap between the corner and linebacker/safety. More often than not, we will be late in the handoff and there will be a large gap for them to put the ball.

I do agree with Marrdro though on the CB play. Griffin does seem a bit slower than last year, but overall his play for his designated responsibility seems pretty good to me. There are many times where he has to cover multiple guys in his zone or go outside his zone to compensate from lack of help. Because he is the guy seen in the video frame when the receiver catches the ball he is the easy target to put the blame on. When is the last time you've seen a linebacker or safety help Griffen out on coverage? It's very rare.

And Cook has really picked up his game. He's been the one of the few bright spots on the team this year. When AW is in playing nickel, I am comfortable with the corners play. The safety play is atrocious though and should be the highest priority to address, especially if they are going to stay in a cover 2. Cover 2 is useless if you give up big plays, and we give up a bunch. This lays on the safeties.

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

Rube translation- Like Griffin, the C2 sucks.

Perhaps its' time for the C2 to go the way of the wildwood weed.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Why? Cause he did what he was supposed to do, bite on the move to the outside by Hester and couldn't recover in time to blanket him?

That's exactly it.

NFL Videos: Hester gets it started

Watch. There's a camera on Griff the entire time. Are you telling me that looks fast? Or even close? Dude is slow, he cannot keep up. Don't even ask what he's doing at the end of hte play, jogging about 5 yards beside Hester.

You do realize he is supposed to keep to the outside on that and is supposed to rely on the S coming out of the cloud coverage to help.

Right, because you know the playcall,

Last I checked on a post, the corners job is to stay 5 yards outside of the receiver so if he gets hit in stride it's an easy TD. Riiiiiight.

You want to hack on someone for that play, start with the DL that need help, the S that was sent to help and didn't get there cause he hesitated, but don't say that it is indicative of Griff being slow

Yep, because it was the DL that blew double coverage? The S is just as much, if not more to blame than Griff, but I am ABSOLUTELY saying Griff's slowness cost us that.

He has run fine with bigger and better recievers this year,

No, he really hasn't.

to the point he has been playing both sides.

Just because you line up on both sides does NOT mean you are fast. Just because I played a drive at DE in high school does not mean I'm strong enough to play lineman.

In short, Griff isn't our issue. He's a damn fine C2 CB. But hey, if your looking for him to stay with Hester like Revis could, I can see that, but Revis isn't a C2 CB now is he?

I expect Griff to be able to stay witH Hester when asked to play man coverage. If he can't do that, he shouldn't be playing man coverage.

So now you're telling us that it's ok that our CB can't cover? It's not like he was close either, he was far behind, far outside, and simply too slow. Why didn't we put Cook on Hester? he kept up with Calvin Johnson pretty well.

You are simply lying to yourself if you keep saying Griff's knee surgeries haven't slowed him down. They absolutely have. He's look straight up bad in every game so far.

But since you spend the game watching line play, I suppose anything looks fast to you.

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

That's exactly it.

NFL Videos: Hester gets it started

Watch. There's a camera on Griff the entire time. Are you telling me that looks fast? Or even close? Dude is slow, he cannot keep up. Don't even ask what he's doing at the end of hte play, jogging about 5 yards beside Hester.


Right, because you know the playcall,

Last I checked on a post, the corners job is to stay 5 yards outside of the receiver so if he gets hit in stride it's an easy TD. Riiiiiight.

Yep, because it was the DL that blew double coverage? The S is just as much, if not more to blame than Griff, but I am ABSOLUTELY saying Griff's slowness cost us that.

No, he really hasn't.



Just because you line up on both sides does NOT mean you are fast. Just because I played a drive at DE in high school does not mean I'm strong enough to play lineman.

I expect Griff to be able to stay witH Hester when asked to play man coverage. If he can't do that, he shouldn't be playing man coverage.

So now you're telling us that it's ok that our CB can't cover? It's not like he was close either, he was far behind, far outside, and simply too slow. Why didn't we put Cook on Hester? he kept up with Calvin Johnson pretty well.

You are simply lying to yourself if you keep saying Griff's knee surgeries haven't slowed him down. They absolutely have. He's look straight up bad in every game so far.

But since you spend the game watching line play, I suppose anything looks fast to you.

If this was a sideline pass you could lay more of it on Cedric, but when it's right down the middle 50 yards deep, to one of the fastest recievers in the game, give me a break. There's not many corners in the league that could have defended that play without safety help.

If they are going to ask Griffin to play more man coverage and take the receiver deep, then it's probably not going to work out. This is not the kind of corner he is, especially as he appears to have dropped a step after the knee surgeries...grab a Nnamdi if that is what you want. But don't ask Nnamdi to be a cover 2 corner because he will suck at it.

If you want a true cover 2 corner that plays the traditional CB zone and can play the run as well as the pass, then Cedric is pretty damned good.

This is an old argument on this forum, but we keep coming back to it because people expect corners to excel at 1x1 pass coverage and specialize in pass breakups and int's. Cedric has never been asked to be that type of corner since he's been in MN.

Boring as hell I know, but it is what this damned cover 2 is all about.

Find a safety or linebacker that can take care of their responsibility in pass coverage and you will find Cedric won't have to keep compensating for them.

Originally Posted by singersp

Well when you tell your opponents 6 days in advance that your going to start your rookie QB & prepare accordingly, you're not trying to win games either.

I'm assuming Ponder is getting all the snaps with the first team in practice this week. That would have alerted everyone to the fact Ponder would start.

Originally Posted by singersp

Well when you tell your opponents 6 days in advance that your going to start your rookie QB & prepare accordingly, you're not trying to win games either.

Going to have to disagree with you here. McNabb has played so poorly that a change had to be made, and if Ponder takes all the snaps in practice this week, the opposition will know about it. There is almost no way to keep a secret in today's world.

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

Tell me how that puts them in more of a bind than if he had started all year and there was film on him or if he would have stuck with McChunky and they had to prepare for him?

Really, the element of surprise was not going to do anything for us after the first few plays if even then.

Do you really think they were sweating whether they were going to face a rookie or the retread?

Defenses prepare differently against a rookie QB, than they do a seasoned vet. A rookie is going to get rattled a lot easier than a veteran QB would & DC's know it.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Why? Cause he did what he was supposed to do, bite on the move to the outside by Hester and couldn't recover in time to blanket him?

That's what he was supposed to do?

Silly me! I actually believed he was supposed to A) prevent the receiver from catching the ball or B) prevent the receiver from advancing the ball.

And FYI, that is not the only play he got burned on or tackle he's missed.

Originally Posted by jmcdon00

I'm assuming Ponder is getting all the snaps with the first team in practice this week. That would have alerted everyone to the fact Ponder would start.

Originally Posted by NDVikingFan66

Going to have to disagree with you here. McNabb has played so poorly that a change had to be made, and if Ponder takes all the snaps in practice this week, the opposition will know about it. There is almost no way to keep a secret in today's world.

Righhhhht! Because the Packers have personnel at Winter Park watching Vikings closed practices.