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  1. #21
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1082241
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1082238
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1082212
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1082123
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1082074
    This is the kind of thing, though, that builds team unity and chemistry. The fact that the Vikings can believe in one player and he comes through for them.
    We all know one player they don't appear to believe in anymore.


    Madieu Williams?



    The week before against the Redskins, after Peterson injured his ankle, there was a discussion at halftime if the Vikings should stick with the game plan behind Toby Gerhart or let Brett Favre try to win the game. Center John Sullivan approached Frazier and encouraged him to keep running the ball. Frazier decided not to deviate from the plan.
    Atleast the Center doesn't. He would rather give the ball to Toby instead of the Noodle. My guess, thier tired of trying to protect his old gimp ass.
    The center knew he didn't stand a chance at sustaining a block long enough to give the QB time so he lobbied the coach to stich to something he had a better chance of accomplishing:laugh:


    Frazier told me the Vikings want to get back to being the team they were in 2008, and youre seeing it the last two weeks. That was a team that ran the ball in a physical way and relied on Peterson (who had his best season with 1,760 yards) because they didnt have a quarterback they could rely on.
    Hmmmmmmmm, even the HC seems to believe they are better off doing business the way we did prior to the Noodles arrival.

    Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson


    Coach Frazier, if you by some small miracle, pull this off by relying on AD and limiting the damage the Noodle can do, as you try to win following the owners mandate to keep the streak alive, I will be a fan forever.

    That will/would be one hell of a coaching job.
    Considering the poor job the OL has been doing in pass protection and not knowing who they are going to have healthy at WR on any given Sunday what other choice does he really have?

    Seems the OL does pretty good with TJ behind it. Hell, we saw the best production at WR (2 TDs 105yds) and finally got to see AD break a long one for a TD.

    Do you think he is going to make some stupid Childress statement like "We have Hank Baskett? LMAO.
    This is a hack on the Noodle thread. Not a hack on the Chiller thread although I have to admit, that was well played.:P
    Are you watching the same OL everyone else was?

    They didn't play better, they LOOKED better, because TJ can move and buy time. But they didn't play any better this week.
    I think your point is tracking with what alot of us are saying.

    Our OL plays fine. Statistically they are playing above the league avg (I posted that two weeks ago). Thier problem is they are trying to protect a guy who is not indecisive with the ball and very immobile.
    Yes, that's the reason he holds onto the ball so long, not because receivers don't get open right? Even until now, i don't think we've had the same WR lineup for 3 straight weeks yet this season. Not trying to take the blame off Favre, but the WR's are not cutting it. Rice being back has helped.

    Mix that in with some minor issues with passing assignments/execution by the RB/FB position and things look bad.
    When your five OL can't block four pass rushers, it IS bad.

    If you, as you said, put a guy in there who can extend a play or is willing to get rid of the ball quicker to checkdowns, the OL play will look alot better. Again, as you and alot of us have said.

    In short. I agree.:laugh:
    Heck, didn't it look better last week too? the playcalling helped tremendously, play action and rollouts made the pass protection look a hell of alot better than it really was.

  2. #22
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1082244
    Yes, that's the reason he holds onto the ball so long, not because receivers don't get open right? Even until now, i don't think we've had the same WR lineup for 3 straight weeks yet this season. Not trying to take the blame off Favre, but the WR's are not cutting it. Rice being back has helped.
    But see, for me, atleast, we've been sold a bill of goods that the Noodle made the WR's last year. Should it really matter who is in there if that is in fact the truth?

    I guess I should blame the chuckleheads who touted that falacy instead of the broke down old man.

    When your five OL can't block four pass rushers, it IS bad.
    But that is the problem. It isn't just 4 rushers for the most part. What we see on almost every down, leading upto the last two weeks, has been a stacked box with multiple rushers coming in the gaps on thier way to the spot the QB should be. If they find a RB on the way they get him. If they don't they just move onto the anticipated QB spot.

    The trickledown affect from that is the RB's/FB's and to a certain degree, the TEs need to do a better job, not the OLmen for the most part.

    Heck, didn't it look better last week too? the playcalling helped tremendously, play action and rollouts made the pass protection look a hell of alot better than it really was.
    Of course it did. What is so mystifying is why it took so long for them to do it. Hate on the Chiller if you want, but I don't think his gameplan was to have the Noodle stand back there like a statue all season long.

    If you really think about it the only logical explanation is that the ankle precluded him from doing until last week cause we saw alot of it last year.

    Long story short, we aren't the only team that has issues like this for goodness sake. It happens league wide and every team moves thier QB off the spot and/or runs at the rusher to slow it down.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Long story short, we aren't the only team that has issues like this for goodness sake. It happens league wide
    Marrdro makes a good point.

    Payton Manning has run into the same problem with much the same results.

    His pass protection has failed and his receivers have been changed up a lot and have been unreliable as far as a deep threat.

    He's thrown a ton of interceptions lately.

    It all starts with the O-Line.... and a balanced and reliable group of healthy receivers is essential.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  4. #24
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1082256
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1082244
    Yes, that's the reason he holds onto the ball so long, not because receivers don't get open right? Even until now, i don't think we've had the same WR lineup for 3 straight weeks yet this season. Not trying to take the blame off Favre, but the WR's are not cutting it. Rice being back has helped.
    But see, for me, atleast, we've been sold a bill of goods that the Noodle made the WR's last year. Should it really matter who is in there if that is in fact the truth?

    I guess I should blame the chuckleheads who touted that falacy instead of the broke down old man.
    Not quite.

    Favre made the receivers last year, yes. But the receivers he made were Rice, Harvin, Shiancoe. With Rice missing half the year, Harvin banged up all the time, and Shiancoe missing somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle, he's trying to make guys like Camarillo, Lewis and Kliensasser. Hard to run an offense with those guys. When Harvin is healthy, he's a beast, and does well with Favre. Same with Rice. We've just been lacking any type of consistency from our receivers.

    So yes, QB's can make receivers, but there needs to be some skill on the other end. Favre can't turn nobody's into somebody's, but last year, he made some good receivers look even better. Its a delicate balance of WR's make QB's, and QB's make WR's. QB's need some talent, but if it's there, good QB's can work wonders with that.

    When your five OL can't block four pass rushers, it IS bad.
    But that is the problem. It isn't just 4 rushers for the most part. What we see on almost every down, leading upto the last two weeks, has been a stacked box with multiple rushers coming in the gaps on thier way to the spot the QB should be. If they find a RB on the way they get him. If they don't they just move onto the anticipated QB spot.
    I'll give you ONE example, first play I looked at.

    The Favre hit. Vikes lined up in the gun, trips right, Shank on the left, AP to Favre's right.

    Bills line up in what appears to be the 1-4-6, with one down lineman. All 4 LB's blitz, the DT runs a stunt to the right. Shiancoe and McKinnie both miss their blocks, AP was the only guy who actually held his man. Whoever was playing RG (Cook?) couldn't hold his man, forcing him outside, right where Favre was running. Favre had to cut inside, and got smoked by the LB who came all the way across the play around the Left Tackle for the big hit.
    Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4OmsTSutb0
    it's a bit blurry, but you can get the general idea.
    Heck, didn't it look better last week too? the playcalling helped tremendously, play action and rollouts made the pass protection look a hell of alot better than it really was.
    Of course it did. What is so mystifying is why it took so long for them to do it. Hate on the Chiller if you want, but I don't think his gameplan was to have the Noodle stand back there like a statue all season long.
    Well what was it then? Chilly spilled whiteout on his game sheet and couldn't figure out how to fix it? Or is it just coincidence that the moment Chilly leaves, the game plan seems to change drastically?
    If you really think about it the only logical explanation is that the ankle precluded him from doing until last week cause we saw alot of it last year.
    His ankle wasn't hurting him all season long.

  5. #25
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Bleed Purple said:

    Favre made the receivers last year, yes. But the receivers he made were Rice, Harvin, Shiancoe. With Rice missing half the year, Harvin banged up all the time, and Shiancoe missing somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle, he's trying to make guys like Camarillo, Lewis and Kliensasser. Hard to run an offense with those guys. When Harvin is healthy, he's a beast, and does well with Favre. Same with Rice. We've just been lacking any type of consistency from our receivers.
    Exactly. And the early season Berrian was another huge problem.

    Entire post was an excellent analysis.

    Are you getting this, Marrdro?
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1082221
    Quote Originally Posted by "tastywaves" #1082220
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1082214
    Quote Originally Posted by "V4L" #1082124
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1082122
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1082074
    This is the kind of thing, though, that builds team unity and chemistry. The fact that the Vikings can believe in one player and he comes through for them.
    We all know one player they don't appear to believe in anymore.

    The week before against the Redskins, after Peterson injured his ankle, there was a discussion at halftime if the Vikings should stick with the game plan behind Toby Gerhart or let Brett Favre try to win the game. Center John Sullivan approached Frazier and encouraged him to keep running the ball. Frazier decided not to deviate from the plan.
    Atleast the Center doesn't. He would rather give the ball to Toby instead of the Noodle. My guess, thier tired of trying to protect his old gimp ass.

    Frazier told me the Vikings want to get back to being the team they were in 2008, and youre seeing it the last two weeks. That was a team that ran the ball in a physical way and relied on Peterson (who had his best season with 1,760 yards) because they didnt have a quarterback they could rely on.
    Hmmmmmmmm, even the HC seems to believe they are better off doing business the way we did prior to the Noodles arrival.

    Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson


    Coach Frazier, if you by some small miracle, pull this off by relying on AD and limiting the damage the Noodle can do, as you try to win following the owners mandate to keep the streak alive, I will be a fan forever.

    That will/would be one hell of a coaching job.
    I think they're trying to make life easier for that "one player." By sticking with Peterson and simplifying the offense.

    Let make great players make plays and watch the wins pile up.

    Sounds simple enough :P

    Really though it all should go through him.. Gotta have some balance but clearly he is a frickin freak and should get a TON of touches
    I wonder who is happier to see the Noodle taking a back seat......

    a. Marrdro
    b. AD
    c. The OL
    d. The WR's especially the ones who run deep routes
    e. TJ.
    f. All of the above.

    Anyway, I think the participation in this thread is a prime example that there are very few PPO'rs who are willing to come to the Noodles defense anymore either.

    LOL, how sad they would throw thier hero under the bus that quick.
    This hero you speak of is one busted up old man at this point that would probably be better off physically if he was only run over by a bus.
    To quote my good friend Caine, ........"Sounds like an excuse to me"....JK. :laugh:

    All in all, it really makes one wonder why the team is so adement about running said hero onto the field if he is in that bad of shape especially when you saw your team carry another kid who basically isn't in that bad of shape who, by the way, really didn't look that bad.
    Probably because they know that kids was only facing the Bills and that the Giants are a much better team and would probably int him 6-9 times.

  7. #27
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Bleed Purple said:

    The Favre hit. Vikes lined up in the gun, trips right, Shank on the left, AP to Favre's right.

    Bills line up in what appears to be the 1-4-6, with one down lineman. All 4 LB's blitz, the DT runs a stunt to the right. Shiancoe and McKinnie both miss their blocks, AP was the only guy who actually held his man. Whoever was playing RG (Cook?) couldn't hold his man, forcing him outside, right where Favre was running. Favre had to cut inside, and got smoked by the LB who came all the way across the play around the Left Tackle for the big hit.
    Here's the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4OmsTSutb0

    Love the way that clip shows the total failure of pass protection......and the big Doodle Mac taking a break instead of completing his blocking assignment.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  8. #28
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    The pass protection failed when the ball is snapped at 13:43 and he's sacked at 13:38?

  9. #29
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1082375
    Bleed Purple said:

    The Favre hit. Vikes lined up in the gun, trips right, Shank on the left, AP to Favre's right.

    Bills line up in what appears to be the 1-4-6, with one down lineman. All 4 LB's blitz, the DT runs a stunt to the right. Shiancoe and McKinnie both miss their blocks, AP was the only guy who actually held his man. Whoever was playing RG (Cook?) couldn't hold his man, forcing him outside, right where Favre was running. Favre had to cut inside, and got smoked by the LB who came all the way across the play around the Left Tackle for the big hit.
    Here's the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4OmsTSutb0

    Love the way that clip shows the total failure of pass protection......and the big Doodle Mac taking a break instead of completing his blocking assignment.
    I was trying to tell that to those who claimed the OL played great. McKinnie gives his guy one shove then turns & leisurely strolls back to the line with Shank next to him.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #30
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    Re: Frazier is sticking to plan, which is Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1082378
    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1082375
    Bleed Purple said:

    The Favre hit. Vikes lined up in the gun, trips right, Shank on the left, AP to Favre's right.

    Bills line up in what appears to be the 1-4-6, with one down lineman. All 4 LB's blitz, the DT runs a stunt to the right. Shiancoe and McKinnie both miss their blocks, AP was the only guy who actually held his man. Whoever was playing RG (Cook?) couldn't hold his man, forcing him outside, right where Favre was running. Favre had to cut inside, and got smoked by the LB who came all the way across the play around the Left Tackle for the big hit.
    Here's the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4OmsTSutb0

    Love the way that clip shows the total failure of pass protection......and the big Doodle Mac taking a break instead of completing his blocking assignment.
    I was trying to tell that to those who claimed the OL played great. McKinnie gives his guy one shove then turns & leisurely strolls back to the line with Shank next to him.
    McKinnie's guy made the hit because Favre held it for too long.

    He had 4+ seconds to throw. The guy who hit him got taken 10 yards deep into the backfield by McKinnie and ran another 10 to hit Favre.

    And leisurely walked back to the line? What's he supposed to do? Teleport 15 yards and save Favre from the hit?

    A lot of people here seem to think it's easy to protect a QB you can't see. McKinnie did his job there. You're wrong if you think otherwise.

    It's Favre's fault he got hit. The announcer even says it. "I think Brett's gotta get rid of the ball, he needs to sense that the pressure's breaking down." I think he either meant bearing down, or protection breaking down. But his message is the same even if his words are confused.

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