Thread: Frazier is dead to me.

Originally Posted by MulletMullitia

Pagac's play-calling was so bad, that our players went out there and called their own plays. Which is why Frazier started calling plays in the end. Pagac isn't smart enough to be an NFL defensive coordinator, period. I don't know what that has to do with Frazier at all. Being aggressive is one thing. Being reckless is another. Pagac's reckless schemes put our secondary out of position and got us burned all year. He needs to go, and we need a qualified DB's coach / Defensive coordinator to call plays that work with our scheme. Raheem Morris, come on down!

I am not at all convinced Pagac was the problem. It may turn out that way but as I see it Fred was trying to be more aggressive and some of the players preferred the passive, soft zone defense and Frazier allowed them to defy his wishes.

I would suggest Frazier and those players grow some stones and challenge the offenses they face rather than just allowing them huge chunks of yardage and letting them score in the second half of games.

The "PROBLEM" is the Wilfs.

Let's quit dancing around the elephant in the room and call it straight.

Had Zygi not wanted to play with his new toy, there would not have been the Chiller debacle.

Had Zygi gotten a clue early on, he would have hired a true football guy to call the shots, and allowed the franchise to develop. Instead, he installed himself and two of his brothers in the decision making process (And the salary pool), and has proven to be an impediment to progress.

Now, he's given Spielman alleged "control" of the team...but he and his brothers are still in the Exec loop - meaning that I suspect that Spielman is a lame duck GM.

Frazier was another Wilf hire, and was a knee-jerk reaction to the backlash of giving Chiller too much control.

Zygi, not being a "Football Guy", gave almost complete control to Chiller. When the team imploded and Chiller was (rightly) hung out to dry, the media and fan backlash at Chiller's level of control caused Zygi to hire a coach HE could control - ala Frazier.

Trouble is, the CORE of the problem is still there. And it's name is WILF.

Yes, I know there are a handful of Wilf fans out there who will take offense to what I'm saying. They will point to his willingness to spend money (Unlike the former goat-poking Owner we had) as an example of his greatness as an owner...

I say "Bullshit".

If Zygi wants to have a winning franchise, hire a football guy NOT named Spielman to run the team. Not publicly run it, REALLY run it. That means that Zygi, Mark, and Leonard are REMOVED from the decision making process with the exception of their ability to hire/fire the GM.

The new GM would then hire his own staff, his own HC, and go about building a franchise.

As it stands now, that won't happen. Frazier has 1-2 more years MINIMUM. Spielman has a 2-3 year window as well. And the Wilfs are STILL involved in the decision making process.

Gonna get worse before it gets better....

Caine

Originally Posted by singersp

We just did that. We went 3-13.
Thanks to a last second missed FG, otherwise we would have finished 2-14.

I was gonna say the same thing... Been there done that!!.. Time to move on!

Originally Posted by Caine

The "PROBLEM" is the Wilfs.

Let's quit dancing around the elephant in the room and call it straight.

Had Zygi not wanted to play with his new toy, there would not have been the Chiller debacle.

Had Zygi gotten a clue early on, he would have hired a true football guy to call the shots, and allowed the franchise to develop. Instead, he installed himself and two of his brothers in the decision making process (And the salary pool), and has proven to be an impediment to progress.

Now, he's given Spielman alleged "control" of the team...but he and his brothers are still in the Exec loop - meaning that I suspect that Spielman is a lame duck GM.

Frazier was another Wilf hire, and was a knee-jerk reaction to the backlash of giving Chiller too much control.

Zygi, not being a "Football Guy", gave almost complete control to Chiller. When the team imploded and Chiller was (rightly) hung out to dry, the media and fan backlash at Chiller's level of control caused Zygi to hire a coach HE could control - ala Frazier.

Trouble is, the CORE of the problem is still there. And it's name is WILF.

Yes, I know there are a handful of Wilf fans out there who will take offense to what I'm saying. They will point to his willingness to spend money (Unlike the former goat-poking Owner we had) as an example of his greatness as an owner...

I say "Bullshit".

If Zygi wants to have a winning franchise, hire a football guy NOT named Spielman to run the team. Not publicly run it, REALLY run it. That means that Zygi, Mark, and Leonard are REMOVED from the decision making process with the exception of their ability to hire/fire the GM.

The new GM would then hire his own staff, his own HC, and go about building a franchise.

As it stands now, that won't happen. Frazier has 1-2 more years MINIMUM. Spielman has a 2-3 year window as well. And the Wilfs are STILL involved in the decision making process.

Gonna get worse before it gets better....

Caine

How much worse.....? Because I am starting to get scared.....

You should be. We are entering uncharted waters and who knows how long it will last.

Caine, you, as always, make really, really good points.

It's a good thing we are not Cowboy fans. There is no end in sight of Jerry Jones being the GM. On one hand, it's easy to criticize the Wilf's for their Organization skills (lack thereof), but, it is hard to criticize their passion to provide us fans a winner. The fact that a GM has been appointed is a good step.

For some reason I'm more worried more about the stadium clusterfuck than the Wilfs continued involvement.

Originally Posted by MaxVike

Caine, you, as always, make really, really good points.

It's a good thing we are not Cowboy fans. There is no end in sight of Jerry Jones being the GM. On one hand, it's easy to criticize the Wilf's for their Organization skills (lack thereof), but, it is hard to criticize their passion to provide us fans a winner. The fact that a GM has been appointed is a good step.

For some reason I'm more worried more about the stadium clusterfuck than the Wilfs continued involvement.

Max, first of all, thanks for the compliment.

However...


(Saw that coming, didn't ya)

The Wilf's "passion to provide us fans a winner" has been.....overblown....in my opinion.

Every franchise wants to win. Mostly because winning equals $$$. Play-off games, title games, publicity, memorabilia sales, season ticket sales, etc...all driven by winning.

Losing = fewer of all of the above.

Zygi invested in this team to make money. His #1 goal is to make money. Everything else is secondary. And in THIS racket, to make money requires winning.

Trouble is, Zygi knows how to make money....but he doesn't know how to put together a winning football franchise. Neither do his brothers, Mark and Leonard. And I don't care how many seasons of "NFL Head Coach 09" they play, they simply don't get it.

Now, you mention that they hired a GM (Yes, we'll pretend Spielman was a good choice...just to shorten this up a bit)....but they are STILL in the decision making loop - where they DON'T belong. How much power and control does the GM really have? In my opinion, I'm guessing that he has less than Chiller had while he was here....and that spells trouble.

So, if the Wilfs REALLY wanted to provide us fans a winner, they'd quit dicking around, remove themselves from the decision making process (except retaining the ability to hire/Fire a GM), hire a GM with true GM powers, and let a FOOTBALL guy build a team. Then they could sit in the owners box, smile at the television cameras, and take credit for being great owners.

Caine

Originally Posted by Caine

Max, first of all, thanks for the compliment.

However...


(Saw that coming, didn't ya)

The Wilf's "passion to provide us fans a winner" has been.....overblown....in my opinion.

Every franchise wants to win. Mostly because winning equals $$$. Play-off games, title games, publicity, memorabilia sales, season ticket sales, etc...all driven by winning.

Losing = fewer of all of the above.

Zygi invested in this team to make money. His #1 goal is to make money. Everything else is secondary. And in THIS racket, to make money requires winning.

Trouble is, Zygi knows how to make money....but he doesn't know how to put together a winning football franchise. Neither do his brothers, Mark and Leonard. And I don't care how many seasons of "NFL Head Coach 09" they play, they simply don't get it.

Now, you mention that they hired a GM (Yes, we'll pretend Spielman was a good choice...just to shorten this up a bit)....but they are STILL in the decision making loop - where they DON'T belong. How much power and control does the GM really have? In my opinion, I'm guessing that he has less than Chiller had while he was here....and that spells trouble.

So, if the Wilfs REALLY wanted to provide us fans a winner, they'd quit dicking around, remove themselves from the decision making process (except retaining the ability to hire/Fire a GM), hire a GM with true GM powers, and let a FOOTBALL guy build a team. Then they could sit in the owners box, smile at the television cameras, and take credit for being great owners.

Caine

Certainly the popular point of view. I'm not in denial, and, I certainly agree with the POV re: GM having all football Team related responsibilities, including the coach. I guess my main point is that they have not been shy about investing in the Team, a refreshing difference to Red, for sure.

Look at it this way, we have so many needs, and so many picks, regardless of structure, it will be hard to fuck this draft up...in fact

Red seemed to be willing to spend money too when he took over the team. The 98 team was pretty successful as was the 2000 team and he did sign Moss and Culpepper to some enormous contracts. He only went south when he decided to gut the team and maximize his return from the sale.

Look at the team Frazier inherited, it was riddled with issues from the beginning. We had no QB, a broken OL, one WR (who's really nothing more than a slot), damaged/physically inadequet DB's and who could forget he has almost no money to work with. Childress ran this team to the ground single handedly, you can't fix a team like Minnesota in one season. If Frazier were really such a bad coach, how did he lead Minnesota to having the top rated defense three years in a row? He was the one calling the shots then, and he was the one that got things done as he will now. He needs time to work with however, it not like a little glue will fix this. It isn't a broken chair he's putting back together, its a team.