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  1. #1
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Examining Jim Trotter’s Tweets… And Why Joe Webb Should Play Before Christian Ponder

    Very few football writers are as well connected as Sports Illustrated’s Jim Trotter. He’s been in the business for over 25 years, used to cover the San Diego Chargers for the Union-Tribune and has built up a national following the point he has over 40,000 followers on Twitter. When Trotter speaks, other writers listen and oftentimes formulate their own stories.
    So when Trotter took to Twitter today he stated several revealing things on where Donovan McNabb is in his career. Those tweets went as followed…
    Wow! That’s more than we’ve gotten in months from any writer in the country on where our quarterback is at.
    Examining Jim Trotter's Tweets... And Why Joe Webb Should Play Before Christian Ponder - The Viking Age - A Minnesota Vikings Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.
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    To be clear.....I didn't write this and do not believe that Webb should start before Ponder. If Ponder isn't going to be the future we need to find out now and not later.

    Even if running him out there means we watch some ugly football, the coaches should be able to figure out if he has any sort of future. By drafting Ponder at 12, its my guess that they already know that about Webb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    To be clear.....I didn't write this and do not believe that Webb should start before Ponder. If Ponder isn't going to be the future we need to find out now and not later.

    Even if running him out there means we watch some ugly football, the coaches should be able to figure out if he has any sort of future. By drafting Ponder at 12, its my guess that they already know that about Webb.
    You sure about that?

  4. #4
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    Free Head Exam: Minnesota Vikings

    I honestly don't get what people expected from quarterback Donovan McNabb this season. He is generally a well-respected NFL citizen. So when the Vikings acquired him this summer from the Washington Redskins, no football person was going to come out and say how far his career had plummeted. But the evidence was all there for the taking. The Washington Redskins were willing to give him away for a sixth-round draft pick and take their chances with Rex Grossman and John Beck. The Vikings were able to leverage McNabb into a contract worth $5.05 million, one that befits a top backup. And that's the way he has played so far this season: Like a veteran seat-warmer. McNabb has been inaccurate on short and deep passes and has mustered one victory in five games. None of this should be a big surprise, nor should coach Leslie Frazier's decision to retain him as his starter. Frazier wanted a veteran to start ahead of a rookie he didn't think would be ready to play. The NFL doesn't have enough good quarterbacks for a team to find a high-functioning one who can fit that description. Frazier got a seat-warmer who is playing like one.
    Free Head Exam: Minnesota Vikings - NFC North Blog - ESPN

    I think its important not to lose site of a few things........

    1. Leslie said repeatedly he was ready to go into the season with Ponder and Webb. Something made him change his mind.

    2. The staff pursued Orton then Thygpen before they went after Dnabb. I wonder why?

    As I was with TJ and the Chiller, I'm not ready to lay all the blame for our QB woes on Leslie (yet). This is something that a organization does as a whole, not just the HC but what I am will to lay at his feet is his decision to keep going with Dnabb when all signs point to the fact that the guy just doesn't have it anymore.

    I for one relented and got kindof excited to have him here. The two guys who helped sway me to that way of thinking are strangley absent from the site of late. I wonder why?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    You sure about that?
    You know me, I always lump alot of variables into my analysis and then over think it. For this one you have to take into account how we got to were we are now (see my comments associated with the second article I posted).

    At some point the coaches/organization felt that Orton and Thygpen were better options. Orton I could agree, but I'm not sure why they went after Thygpen unless they knew that what we saw with Dnabb last year is what they would have to struggle with this year.

    Then you have to look at the numbers of the contract. It sure won't be hard to go to Ponder after looking at those. Someone knew something and I think they knew it would take 4 or 5 weeks for Ponder to be ready.

    Kindof looks like Dnabbs play agrees with me on that. He sure didn't seem to get to down on himself when he missed some very easy throws Sunday.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    You know me, I always lump alot of variables into my analysis and then over think it. For this one you have to take into account how we got to were we are now (see my comments associated with the second article I posted).

    At some point the coaches/organization felt that Orton and Thygpen were better options. Orton I could agree, but I'm not sure why they went after Thygpen unless they knew that what we saw with Dnabb last year is what they would have to struggle with this year.

    Then you have to look at the numbers of the contract. It sure won't be hard to go to Ponder after looking at those. Someone knew something and I think they knew it would take 4 or 5 weeks for Ponder to be ready.

    Kindof looks like Dnabbs play agrees with me on that. He sure didn't seem to get to down on himself when he missed some very easy throws Sunday.
    I'm not disagreeing with putting in Ponder, I'm just not so sure that are current staff (coaches and FO) can judge whether or not he is worthy of long term investment should he come out of the blocks sputtering. And I do know that our fans have no patience for learning on the job which unfortunately seems to have some sway with the boys in the big offices.

    And as unspectacular as McNabb has been to date, he does have one big positive in that he limits turnovers. May not be the case with Ponder or Webb which may be Frazier's biggest concern.

  7. #7
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    To be clear.....I didn't write this and do not believe that Webb should start before Ponder. If Ponder isn't going to be the future we need to find out now and not later.

    Even if running him out there means we watch some ugly football, the coaches should be able to figure out if he has any sort of future. By drafting Ponder at 12, its my guess that they already know that about Webb.
    Some say TJ wasn't given enough starts to be evaluated adequately, but I guess Webb was?

    One point this writer is making I agree with.

    This season is lost as far as playoffs are concerned but not lost as a developmental season. A season for young players to gain experience. There will be no detriment to letting sit the entire season. Webb has superior atheletic ability comparede to Ponder. (my words, not from the article).

    Why not let Ponder sit a bit longer and see what Webb has now in his second year, maybe "catch lightening in a bottle"?

    That will define Webb and you will have a chance to play Ponder at the end of the season, the off season, and training camp, before he starts next season., providing Webb doesn't work out.

    My sense is it wont happen due to Leslie sticking his neck out for Ponder by reaching in the draft, in cooperation with Spielman, much as he stuck with Favre when we had no hope of winning, and as he's sticking with McNabb.

    All we are saying, is give Webb a chance.
    Last edited by smegmavike; 10-11-2011 at 12:58 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    Some say TJ wasn't given enough starts to be evaluated adequately, but I guess Webb was?

    One point this writer is making I agree with.

    This season is lost as far as playoffs are concerned but not lost as a developmental season. A season for young players to gain experience. There will be no detriment to letting sit the entire season. Webb has superior atheletic ability comparede to Ponder. (my words, not from the article).

    Why not let Ponder sit a bit longer and see what Webb has now in his second year, maybe "catch lightening in a bottle"?

    That will define Webb and you will have a chance to play Ponder at the end of the season, the off season, and training camp, before he starts next season., providing Webb doesn't work out.

    My sense is it wont happen due to Leslie sticking his neck out for Ponder by reaching in the draft, in cooperation with Spielman, much as he stuck with Favre when we had no hope of winning, and as he's sticking with McNabb.

    All we are saying, is give Webb a chance.
    Couple of thoughts....

    1. The HC doesn't draft anyone. He gives his input to the GM (or in our case the VP of Player Personnel) for what types of player he needs to run his scheme and the GM has scouts go out and find candidates that fit the bill. They then rank them with the coaching staff and the GM drafts the players.

    In short, Leslie did not draft Ponder.

    2. Good point on TJ, but you have to take it one step further, like TJ, Webb will take longer to develop than Ponder. My guess is that is why he (Ponder) surpassed Webb on the depth chart already.

    In short, is Webb a great athlete? Yes, but so are alot of QB's that come out that are projected more as WR's or TE's than QB's. I think we will see Webb on the field, but it will be on the end of a Ponder throw and all of us will be happy to see it.

    One quick question, and don't take it the wrong way, I just love to discuss things.......Why are you hesitant to run Ponder out there?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with putting in Ponder, I'm just not so sure that are current staff (coaches and FO) can judge whether or not he is worthy of long term investment should he come out of the blocks sputtering. And I do know that our fans have no patience for learning on the job which unfortunately seems to have some sway with the boys in the big offices.

    And as unspectacular as McNabb has been to date, he does have one big positive in that he limits turnovers. May not be the case with Ponder or Webb which may be Frazier's biggest concern.
    All good points, especially the ones related to the Staff and Fans.

    I'm of a mind, mostly because Dnabb was our 3rd option, that this staff has a clue about QB's. I think they knew right up front what they were getting and it wasn't a long term solution. That is based on the 3 QB's they went after to front Ponder.

    As to the fans, screw em. I haven't got on my soapbox for a some time, but sometimes our fanbase absolutely embarrasses me. Problem is, I'm of a mind that our Ownership group is also as dumb as our fan base and makes decisions based on of what they think those fans will say. Until that quits, and they start to make wise decisions, we will not get any better.

    Until we see a GM brought in, that little issue won't be resolved and we probably will not see a championship.
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  10. #10
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Couple of thoughts....

    1. The HC doesn't draft anyone. He gives his input to the GM (or in our case the VP of Player Personnel) for what types of player he needs to run his scheme and the GM has scouts go out and find candidates that fit the bill. They then rank them with the coaching staff and the GM drafts the players.

    In short, Leslie did not draft Ponder.

    2. Good point on TJ, but you have to take it one step further, like TJ, Webb will take longer to develop than Ponder. My guess is that is why he (Ponder) surpassed Webb on the depth chart already.

    In short, is Webb a great athlete? Yes, but so are alot of QB's that come out that are projected more as WR's or TE's than QB's. I think we will see Webb on the field, but it will be on the end of a Ponder throw and all of us will be happy to see it.

    One quick question, and don't take it the wrong way, I just love to discuss things.......Why are you hesitant to run Ponder out there?
    I'm not reluctant to run Ponder out there. In fact I expect it to happen after the bye.
    I just feel we will never know if Webb could have been a great QB or not, once Ponder gets his start.
    Will Webb be a great receiver? Doubtful.

    BTW, I know how player aquisition works. If you think Frazier wasn't involved in the decision to take Ponder along with Spielman, you didn't see Fraziers reaction in the draft room when he was picked.

    I know the VP of player personel is responsible, but it is utterly irresponsible to aquire a player without consulting the coaching staff. Let's call it a kind of a triad of authority type thing.
    A collaboration as it were.
    Last edited by smegmavike; 10-11-2011 at 01:29 PM.

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