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  1. #1
    VikemanX84 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Emotion (and other things)

    So I gave it a day to sink in that we actually lost to the San Francisco 49ers. Then i gave it another day to sink in that we only scored 3 points and now, after reading a couple good posts I just thought I'd give my two cents.

    I could hardly stand to watch this game.
    I've seen the Vikings lose and lose big before but this game and many other games this season have just been too hard to watch.
    I realized what it was over these last two days - This team plays with no emotion.


    Quarterback - You all probably know I don't want Brad Johnson to be our starting quarterback anymore.
    Sure we have some big WR problems and our Oline isn't worth the 140 million dollars we're paying it but that doesn't mean our Quarterback isn't at fault too. I watched him lack arm strength to make many plays, I watched as he threw deep into double coverage the few times we did go deep and I didn't see him play with much emotion.
    He didn't look like he was wanting to play football.
    I think we could benefit from Tarvaris playing because he can make plays and might jump-kick some life into this offense with some explosiveness that Brad can't give us.
    And please, for the Love of God, don't say that you are worried about shattering his confidence.
    If he can't take some adversity he shouldn't be in the NFL and just because he went to a small school doesn't mean he doesn't have game and can't start so please don't anyone say that it does because I can't stand people making generalizations about players from 1-AA schools or people who want to Childress wrap Tarvaris in a pink and purple blanket and hold until big bad NFL defenses can't hurt him.


    RB - Taylor has something to prove and is the most fun person on our offense to watch.
    That being said he seems to actually be looking for contact a little too much.
    This was one of Ricky Williams problems and I wish Taylor would cut it outside a little more instead of cutting instead where all the defenders are.
    That being said he is finding initial holes and hitting them well and our Oline is doing a decent job of run-blocking.

    WRs - Pitiful.
    I know Williamson can catch and his problem is that he can't pick-up the ball in a game situation. I don't know what to do to help him out and I don't think our coachign staff does either.
    I think they should help learn how to focus on the ball because I think he is getting distracted by other things on the field.
    He just has to be able to see the ball.
    That being said this group is playing completely unenergentic and seem to afraid to try and make big plays.

    Oline - I'm missing a mean streak with everybody but Steve Hutchinson. No one on this line seems to be excited to explode off the ball and rerally lay a hurting to the guy on the other side.
    You can't have a dominant or even good Oline without some kind of mean streak.
    They don't have it and as a result they are getting beat by the more hungary defenders.

    The Defense is playing great and they are playing with intensity and they are fun to watch.

    So What is the problem?
    I'm going with coaching.
    I don't think playcalling is all that bad but you have to find a way to get a guy OPEN downfield every once in a while. I think Childress is doing a good job about 85-90% of the time calling plays.
    The problem is that he is a boring coach.
    He doesn't stress making plays but instead not screwing up. And you can a few football games by not screwing up but you can't do anything special.
    I think teams mirror their coaches and this offense is certainly mirroring their coach.
    He doesn't do anything to provide a spark and that is what you need from the leaders of your team. Bevell doesn't do it either adn Brad certainly doesn't do it so the only leader on this team that seems to any spark making capabilities is Mike Tomlin (I honestly think that Childress has very little to do with our defense besides asking for accountability.
    I doubt he has a huge part in the game plan but just oversees it minimally and doesn't have much to do with coaching or play calling in practice or game situations).


    Tomlin's unit is playing high-intensity football. The offense is bored, they don't want to try and make plays because that isn't what they are told to do. It's horrible to watch.
    Tice had his faults but at least his teams were fun to watch play because they wanted to be out there playing for him and they were trying to make plays for him.
    When the Vikings were playing their best they were getting sparks from their leaders (Carter, Moss, Culpepper, Tice, Green, etc).


    Anyways, what I'm saying is this offense needs a spark.
    When they start enjoying playing and trying to make plays they will fair much, much better.
    I think we can with this group of guys but a change in coaching philosophy is needed and I think we'd benefit from a QB change as well.
    When it s all said and done, you ll have to admit we re number 1!

  2. #2
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    It's not a generalization it's a statistical fact.


    Also the coaching, we do not know what he says in meetings and on the sideline, the fact that he keeps his composure does not make him boring. Having your kicker throw TD passes and your HB throw TD passes does not make you boring.

    Even if you were boring it makes absolutely no Difference. Both kinds of coaches have won it all.

    Not making mistakes is a priority and so far they haven't done that. Maybe if they give it a shot you will see some better results. If anything needs to be preached it needs to be NOT MAKING MISTAKES. You can't preach playmaking ability and highlight reels, that takes talent from players and right now the players are not getting the job done.

  3. #3
    VikemanX84 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    It's not a statistical fact, its a generalization.
    I'd like to see the statistical fact that says we know without a doubt that 1-AA quarterbacks can't play in the NFL.

    I don't remember the last time I saw an uptight team that didn't look like it was having fun win it all.
    I also don't remember the last time a team of any kind won any kind of championship without some sort of spark from their leaders.
    These are two of the most important things in football and often times a team with more energy, intensity, drive and determination can beat a team with much more talent.
    Who was the last boring coach to win a super bowl?
    Bill Belichek is not boring, Bill Cowher isn't boring, Gruden isn't boring, Vermeil isn't boring, Shanahan isn't boring, Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Brian Billick, all not boring coaches. The only one to win a Championship in the last 2 decades to be boring might be The Walrus with Greenbay, but thats debatable and they had Favre as their quarterback and leader who is definitely not boring (it pains me to say something positiv about that guy).


    When you preach not screwing up instead of have fun and make plays you get who only strive to not screw up.
    Not everyone can be perfect on every play and when no one is making plays to make up for the guy who makes a mistake you get crap.

    I watch Childress in press conferences and on the field and I don't think he's going to be so much more of a spark in the locker room.

    Also 2 trick plays out of hundreds doesn't make you exciting.
    All that says is that he takes a takes a chance about once ever 4 games. whoop-dee-doo.
    When it s all said and done, you ll have to admit we re number 1!

  4. #4
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    It's not a statistical fact, its a generalization.
    I'd like to see the statistical fact that says we know without a doubt that 1-AA quarterbacks can't play in the NFL.

    I don't remember the last time I saw an uptight team that didn't look like it was having fun win it all.
    I also don't remember the last time a team of any kind won any kind of championship without some sort of spark from their leaders.
    These are two of the most important things in football and often times a team with more energy, intensity, drive and determination can beat a team with much more talent.
    Who was the last boring coach to win a super bowl?
    Bill Belichek is not boring, Bill Cowher isn't boring, Gruden isn't boring, Vermeil isn't boring, Shanahan isn't boring, Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Brian Billick, all not boring coaches. The only one to win a Championship in the last 2 decades to be boring might be The Walrus with Greenbay, but thats debatable and they had Favre as their quarterback and leader who is definitely not boring (it pains me to say something positiv about that guy).


    When you preach not screwing up instead of have fun and make plays you get who only strive to not screw up.
    Not everyone can be perfect on every play and when no one is making plays to make up for the guy who makes a mistake you get crap.

    I watch Childress in press conferences and on the field and I don't think he's going to be so much more of a spark in the locker room.

    Also 2 trick plays out of hundreds doesn't make you exciting.
    All that says is that he takes a takes a chance about once ever 4 games. whoop-dee-doo.
    First of all boring is subjective. You think all of those guys you listed off are not boring I disagree with some of them.

    Second you have no clue what he is or what he isn't saying. Who is or isn't having fun. Losing isn't fun.

    Fact of the matter is Childress keeps his buisiness in house. You and I as fans do not get to see him joking around with players, doing the human things that most coaches do. You get to see his robot like attitude in press conferences. Woop Dee Doo as you so delicatley put it. You see 1/1000000th of the picture and all of a sudden the guy is not a leader he is just an emotionless robot calling plays. I dont buy it.

    No it is not a generalization, show me a stat of div 1 AA Quarterbacks who come into the NFL and succeed. Those are statistics. Does it mean without a doubt he will not be able to succeed? Absolutely not, does it mean very few have done it before him, absolutely. Given the fact that the guy is #3 on the roster and the fact that we had Fran Foley drafting him who has had some controversy over trying to strong arm the Vikes into picks they did not want,. with the fact that very few if any QB's from his div succeed or even play in the NFL that is far from a generalization.

    You want fireworks and screaming spitting coaches, and 80 yard bombs from a mobile exciting QB.......that's fine. Show me a game with a camera on Childress at all times so you can see his reaction to everything.

    I do not agree with your assesment of the coaching. That's all it is. I think your barking up the wrong tree, and after abusing Seattle and winning against 3 other decent teams this year it wasn't even a question. Until you devise a formula to rip a mans heart out look inside it and see what he is made of I don't think you can make those claims. Until we can see how much Childress spits when he yells at halftime I do not know we can make those claims unless of course we are.............generalizing.

    I agree someone needs to be a voice on the field. I agree the players are failing at that. I just do not agree that Childress is and if he is I do not agree it even matters, and that is ok because that is what this place is about is discussion. Hopefully someone else will post thoughts about it and add some more opinions to your well written post so some other angles can get touched on.

  5. #5
    VikemanX84 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    "Del" wrote:
    Does it mean without a doubt he will not be able to succeed? Absolutely not
    Thats all I'm saying. Just because he is a 1-AA Quarterback doesn't mean by deifnition that he won't succeed and it doesn't mean that he will.
    But regardless he at least has the ability to provide a spark that could turn into the fire that this offense needs.

    Maybe Childress is animated at half time and in practice but I don't think his coaching philosophy (just don't screw up) can provide the spark that this offense needs.
    I think that you need to find some guys that can make plays (and I think we have guys who can do that) and coach them to make plays instead of coaching them not to screw up.

    Also I read that we had one (1) pass attempt into the endzone on Sunday and that was in desperation at the end of the game. We had some oppertunities (first drive) to take a shot, not doing so at all over the course of the game is unacceptable play calling and definitely doesn't provide a spark.
    When it s all said and done, you ll have to admit we re number 1!

  6. #6
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    Does it mean without a doubt he will not be able to succeed? Absolutely not
    Thats all I'm saying. Just because he is a 1-AA Quarterback doesn't mean by deifnition that he won't succeed and it doesn't mean that he will.
    But regardless he at least has the ability to provide a spark that could turn into the fire that this offense needs.

    Maybe Childress is animated at half time and in practice but I don't think his coaching philosophy (just don't screw up) can provide the spark that this offense needs.
    I think that you need to find some guys that can make plays (and I think we have guys who can do that) and coach them to make plays instead of coaching them not to screw up.

    Also I read that we had one (1) pass attempt into the endzone on Sunday and that was in desperation at the end of the game. We had some oppertunities (first drive) to take a shot, not doing so at all over the course of the game is unacceptable play calling and definitely doesn't provide a spark.
    We were in the redzone one time. What do you want 80 yard bombs into the endzone. Dropped passes,penalties, and turnovers kept us from even getting close to striking distance.

    I understand what you are saying and I do not think many people have written Tavaris off simply because of his school. I think they are looking at many factors.

    I don't know if his don't screw up will work bevcause there has only been one game where we didnt screw up and we kicked the shit out of the seahawks. If the team would not screw up then maybe we as fans could get a better feel for the effects that advice may have. Fact is however our team does screw up more then it should and it is killing us. So if that is his gameplan he isn't even getting that across to the players.

  7. #7
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    So I gave it a day to sink in that we actually lost to the San Francisco 49ers. Then i gave it another day to sink in that we only scored 3 points and now, after reading a couple good posts I just thought I'd give my two cents.

    I could hardly stand to watch this game.
    I've seen the Vikings lose and lose big before but this game and many other games this season have just been too hard to watch.
    I realized what it was over these last two days - This team plays with no emotion.


    Quarterback - You all probably know I don't want Brad Johnson to be our starting quarterback anymore.
    Sure we have some big WR problems and our Oline isn't worth the 140 million dollars we're paying it but that doesn't mean our Quarterback isn't at fault too. I watched him lack arm strength to make many plays, I watched as he threw deep into double coverage the few times we did go deep and I didn't see him play with much emotion.
    He didn't look like he was wanting to play football.
    I think we could benefit from Tarvaris playing because he can make plays and might jump-kick some life into this offense with some explosiveness that Brad can't give us.
    And please, for the Love of God, don't say that you are worried about shattering his confidence.
    If he can't take some adversity he shouldn't be in the NFL and just because he went to a small school doesn't mean he doesn't have game and can't start so please don't anyone say that it does because I can't stand people making generalizations about players from 1-AA schools or people who want to Childress wrap Tarvaris in a pink and purple blanket and hold until big bad NFL defenses can't hurt him.


    RB - Taylor has something to prove and is the most fun person on our offense to watch.
    That being said he seems to actually be looking for contact a little too much.
    This was one of Ricky Williams problems and I wish Taylor would cut it outside a little more instead of cutting instead where all the defenders are.
    That being said he is finding initial holes and hitting them well and our Oline is doing a decent job of run-blocking.

    WRs - Pitiful.
    I know Williamson can catch and his problem is that he can't pick-up the ball in a game situation. I don't know what to do to help him out and I don't think our coachign staff does either.
    I think they should help learn how to focus on the ball because I think he is getting distracted by other things on the field.
    He just has to be able to see the ball.
    That being said this group is playing completely unenergentic and seem to afraid to try and make big plays.

    Oline - I'm missing a mean streak with everybody but Steve Hutchinson. No one on this line seems to be excited to explode off the ball and rerally lay a hurting to the guy on the other side.
    You can't have a dominant or even good Oline without some kind of mean streak.

    They don't have it and as a result they are getting beat by the more hungary defenders.

    The Defense is playing great and they are playing with intensity and they are fun to watch.

    So What is the problem?
    I'm going with coaching.
    I don't think playcalling is all that bad but you have to find a way to get a guy OPEN downfield every once in a while. I think Childress is doing a good job about 85-90% of the time calling plays.
    The problem is that he is a boring coach.
    He doesn't stress making plays but instead not screwing up. And you can a few football games by not screwing up but you can't do anything special.
    I think teams mirror their coaches and this offense is certainly mirroring their coach.
    He doesn't do anything to provide a spark and that is what you need from the leaders of your team. Bevell doesn't do it either adn Brad certainly doesn't do it so the only leader on this team that seems to any spark making capabilities is Mike Tomlin (I honestly think that Childress has very little to do with our defense besides asking for accountability.
    I doubt he has a huge part in the game plan but just oversees it minimally and doesn't have much to do with coaching or play calling in practice or game situations).


    Tomlin's unit is playing high-intensity football. The offense is bored, they don't want to try and make plays because that isn't what they are told to do. It's horrible to watch.
    Tice had his faults but at least his teams were fun to watch play because they wanted to be out there playing for him and they were trying to make plays for him.
    When the Vikings were playing their best they were getting sparks from their leaders (Carter, Moss, Culpepper, Tice, Green, etc).


    Anyways, what I'm saying is this offense needs a spark.
    When they start enjoying playing and trying to make plays they will fair much, much better.
    I think we can with this group of guys but a change in coaching philosophy is needed and I think we'd benefit from a QB change as well.
    Great comments.
    Got my brain to working (my wife would say that is a scary thing) and it dawned on me that maybe, just maybe, Childress is calling a offensive scheme to match the players.

    What if any changes will we see next year as a QB change (inevitable), additions/changes to the O-line and some additional WRs are added to the mix.


    Will we then finally realize what kind of offense this staff is trying to build to?
    We were lucky (IMO) with the defense and the players we had/went and got.
    That is why they are working toghether better than the offense.
    :
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #8
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    Regarding the I-AA QBs that have succeeded in the NFL, you have TWO that have won a Super Bowl: Doug Williams and Kurt Warner...as well as others from SMALL Division I schools that are on the fringe:
    Terry Bradshaw - Louisiana Tech (4), Mark Rypien - Northeast Louisiana (1), Ben Roethlisberger -
    Miami (Ohio) (1), Johnny Unitas - Louisville [before they were Big East] (1)...and at least one who came within a yard of winning it all - Steve McNair (Alcorn State).

    There have been SEVERAL other notable QBs from I-AA that have succeeded as well...when I have the time to do the research, I will supplement this.

    We don't even want to start counting the TOTAL number of players that were from I-AA that became stars in the NFL because it would take too long...heck, just the SWAC produced dozens of superstars!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  9. #9
    Gift's Avatar
    Gift is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    It's not TJ turn to play yet, everyone forgets we have a number 2 QB,
    Brooks Bollinger.
    I for one would much rather give him a start (if we lose in the same fashion to GB) than put in a rookie.
    He may not have the pure talent TJ does but he has had time in the league to work out the rookie mistakes & won't hurt this offense anymore than BJ does.

    Again, TJ is #3.
    http://www.purplepride.org/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=6169&dateline=1318052  159

  10. #10
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Emotion (and other things)

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    Regarding the I-AA QBs that have succeeded in the NFL, you have TWO that have won a Super Bowl: Doug Williams and Kurt Warner...as well as others from SMALL Division I schools that are on the fringe:
    Terry Bradshaw - Louisiana Tech (4), Mark Rypien - Northeast Louisiana (1), Ben Roethlisberger -
    Miami (Ohio) (1), Johnny Unitas - Louisville [before they were Big East] (1)...and at least one who came within a yard of winning it all - Steve McNair (Alcorn State).

    There have been SEVERAL other notable QBs from I-AA that have succeeded as well...when I have the time to do the research, I will supplement this.

    We don't even want to start counting the TOTAL number of players that were from I-AA that became stars in the NFL because it would take too long...heck, just the SWAC produced dozens of superstars!
    2 guys out of hundreds and a few guys that didnt play in I-AA that you figure to throw in anyways. Wow you have certainly destroyed any doubts.

    Now take your two wonderful QB's and put them in a Vikings uniform and ask yourself with our WR core do those two guys out of hundreds of QB's got what it takes to make us win. I think not.


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