I voted WR obviously, but if someone like Teo or Jarvis Jones falls to us it would be very hard to pass those guys up and take WR in round 2.
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I voted WR obviously, but if someone like Teo or Jarvis Jones falls to us it would be very hard to pass those guys up and take WR in round 2.
No a GM won't do that but this is about my Dream picks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tarkenton10
I am willing to sacrifice character for talent. If 3 of these guys go radioactive and are dismissed from the team...so what. that still leaves us with 5 guys that have first round talent. Last year we hit on 2 guys with first round talent and we thought it was the greatest draft ever (khalil and Smith)
To walk away with a top tier guard that can be brought along slowly and 3 game changing WRs and still have 2 first rounders next year.. would change this franchise around. It would also complete the offensive side of the ball in 1 year and allow us to stockpile defense for a very long time.
As far as youth we would have
We won 10 games last season but I expect back to 7-9 at best. We simply aren't that good a team minus a herculean effort from Peterson.
i havn't voted for the position, as i believe BPA is without taking in mind position need.
as fro a dream scenario..
as much as i'd rather keep PH.. if we traded him, we could secure a stuf player, and draft pics this year or next. i've been reviewing mocks and player ratings by positions.
what we need, is a lot. what we can do is a lot.
WR, LB, CB, DT, maybe a SS or OL (guard).
for me the need @ LB/CB balances with the need for WR.
if we trade PH and get a CB/LB player, then def WR in the 1st, and maybe 2nd. if we don't trade PH, then CB/LB in 1st, and WR second. DT 3rd, and following with BPA's to fill various positions.
putting in names is hard as every team is going to be doing the same thing, evaluating players based on talent, character, and positional needs. we havn't even completed the combine, pro days, or even had people in to run our own drills. Off field issues are gonna happen.. your talking about kids, being handed some fame, $, and not being mature enouf to handle it. i've been there.. fell victim to it. that doesn't mean that this will be their nature after the maturing has set in. i really don't see this effecting GREATLY their draft position.. not as much as say.. injury prone, system they came from, compititation levels they played against.
for WR.. we have still Childs, who if he can stay healthy might be better then a few of the deep threats we're seeing. a sure handed, route smart player would be ideal for me, though it'll be hard to get them into nfl ready players by game 1..
DT/CB/LB again for me seems more of a sure lock to get into a ready position to be a backup/starter early in the year. hence i think we'll be focusing on them early, with the depth of WR showing us a gem or 2 for the exact position we want.
just some thoughts before my coffee.
quick edit.. QB i don't see us getting this year.. maybe a project.. with Ponder and MBT being o ur 1/2 we might grab someone later as a project, and look into '14 for the next QB group to possibly replace one of ours.
DiGiTaL
Talent wise they are very good so I would agree with your point and I like The Matheiu choice at that point in the draft. I like your guard pick also but I am hoping we can get Warford in the second, although that seems to be getting slimmer by the minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevoncox
And I agree we are going to be around .500 next year, I don't think we get ten wins next year.
Dream scenario would be for me.
1. kawan Short - I know there are others that are better but I think they will be gone by #23.
2. Patterson or Hopkins- I think they both will be gone but if we are dreaming one will be left here.
3. Larry Warford - In my dream mock draft he will be here so we get our WR and IMO the second best guard in the draft.
4. Da' rick Rogers - I like take flyers on talent and I like his skillset so I will go along with this one.
5. Darius Clay - A second round talent that defintely is BPA and is a need.
7. Landry Jones- I would gamble that he is here a few rounds later.
7 Tyrann Mathieu - Big need
If we are dreaming I would love this draft and in the top 3 we have three potential probowlers. YEAH BABY!!
Add to Peterson's effort, the head-down, hard-working, blue-collar, team-first, All-In mentality that has been brewing up at Vikings headquarters. I agree, we out played our talent level last year, but with the right focus and work ethic, why can't we do it again? OK, seems a bit of a stretch to get that lucky 2 years in a row. Now, with a really good draft...I can see 10-6 again.Quote:
We won 10 games last season but I expect back to 7-9 at best. We simply aren't that good a team minus a herculean effort from Peterson.
And, definitely move Landry Jones down a few rounds. My roomie is from OK, so I watch a lot of Sooner football, and that guy has the chokes at the worst possible times. Over and over, he would march his team down the field only to fumble on the goalline. He also threw ugly INTs. As a 6th or 7th rounder sure, but not in or before the 4th.
If we're going multiple WR picks, I'd like a long look at Ryan Swope in the 3rd. Kid has 3 years of solid production and blew up the combine: 3rd fastest 40, 6th best 3-cone, and tied with Patterson (who is 3" taller) for 5th in vertical jump...that's a hell of an athletic combination! He also has RB experience and a solid build at 6' 205lbs.
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Ryan Swope
A couple of things form the Combine. I did see Swopes blow it up and he made a ton of money, no doubt. Patterson is gone in my book, there is no way we could get him now, way too much hype on him. KCox's man looked smooth DaRick Rogers, looked great catching the ball.
Tavon Austin impressed me and if we decide to trade PH we wouldn't miss a whole lot if we drafted TA. He is a poor man's PH.
Another WR that I just about wrote off was Robert Woods. This guy looked very fluid in every drill and was a hands catcher and made it look second nature. I wouldn't mind Woods in the 2nd round IMO.
Kcox other guy Marquess Wilson also looked very good catching the ball. He was not as fluid as Woods but did Ok in the drills also.
A guy I liked but didn't show well was Hopkins he also had great hands but was slow in the forty and I dropped him to round three if I was drafting for the Vikes.
So my new WR draft board would look like
1. Woods
2. Austin (if we trade PH)
3. Rogers
4. Swope
T-5. Stills
T-5. Allen
Tark, not sure I understand what your list represents. Did you drop Allen simply because you didn't get to see him at the combine.Quote:
Originally Posted by tarkenton10
Can you expand it to your top 10 and rank them regardless of who you think might be available at the time of our pick, but put them in the order of how you think MN would rank them?
Interested to get your take on the group as a whole including guys like Patterson, Hunter, Terrence Williams,...
Great question- The reason that Patterson was not on the board was because we will never see it and yes Allen was an after thought. There were so many WRs that impressed at the combine I may have forgotten about him. So how do I think Minnestoa will rate them, keep in mind off the field issues and other circumstances are very important to a franchise.Quote:
Originally Posted by tastywaves
So IMO the Vikes will rate the WRs as follows
1. Cordarelle Patterson - FREAK - enough said, he is 6' 2", 216 and ran a 4.42 forty. He is a great vertical threat, makes smooth breaks. He has a HUGE upside but not a polished route runner just yet. Reminds people of a slower Julio Jones.
2. Keenan Allen- The most complete WR in the draft should be a top 15 -20 pick.
3. Terrence Williams - He has good size like his ability in the red zone. 4.52 Forty
4. Justin Hunter - 4.44 forty, good speed, explosive leaping ability, and I really liked how he caught the ball at the combine.
T5. Robert Woods - 4.51 Forty, He really shined at the combine, he has great body control and a natural pass catching WR.
T5. Tavon Austin - 4.34 forty, he is up here is the Vikes trade PH, otherwise his value drops for the Vikes and I would rank him about #10. This pick would be PH's replacement.
6. Quinton Patton - 4.53 forty, Polished WR, I liked what I saw with him at the combine he helped his stock a little.
7. Da' Rick Rogers - 4.52 forty, real impressive at times, he is big and can be pyhsical. His problems are off the field and that is keepng him down on the Vikes list.
8. DeAndre Hopkins - 4.57 forty, his forty time lost him some money, he looks like he plays faster than the forty time. He has a lot of upside though, his forty dropped him at least two spots IMO.
9. Markus Wheaton - 4.45 forty, he looked good in drills and if he has a good pro day I can see him move up a couple spots maybe. He looked good in a couple of drills, seemed like a really smooth WR IMO.
10. Marquess Wilson - 4.51 forty, He looked good in some drills. His problem like Rogers is off the field, I am sure the Vikes lowered their draft position on him because of his off the field issues.
Well those are who I think the Vikes believe are the best WRs in the draft If I were picking I would probably raise Allen up a bit (compared to my last list) he is a very good WR but still I don't think he has much upside. You are going to get a very good WR and that is pretty much it.
My picks would be if I could change the Allen placement would be:
1. Cordarelle Patterson
2. Robert Woods
3. Keenan Allen
T4. Justin Hunter - I forgot about this cat, I like his measurables and his hands.
T4. Tavon Austin-This pick is only if we trade Harvin, if we keep him, he would drop to #9 or 10Really not much need for him with PH on the team.
5. Da Rick Rogers
6. Ryan Swope
T7. Kenny Stills
T7. Hopkins - I would really like to raise this guy on my board, he played very well this season. I think even he was disappointed with his forty time. Maybe if he can get in the 4.4s he may go back up the board.
8. Markus Wheaton
9. Marquess Wilson - Off field issues keep him down on most boards IMO.
10. Terrence Williams - I know he is very high on many boards but I just have a gut feeling he is going to be a bust.
I hope that helps with your confusion. I am very interested in the DBs and can't wait to see how they faired.
Other notes: just a few people that I think made a lot of money Ezekiel Ansah, Barkevious Mingo, Dion Jordan, Margus Hunt, Knile Davis, Onterio McCalebb, Zaviar Gooden and some others. I don't have time to go into details but they all impressed in a big way at one of the measurables and defintely helped their stock. The Coaches and GMs are going back to look at these cats because of what they did either in the forty, long jump, vertical or a combinaton of them all.
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tarkenton10
It's interesting to see how you think MN will rank the WR's vs. how you would rank them. No doubt if you look around the draft boards across all the teams, you will see a similar variety from club to club. Part of why fan's get so confused/upset when players are taken way above their ESPN/NFL.com rankings. It's a very deep group, no super class studs like Calvin or Julio, but a lot of quality to choose from.
On your rankings, I wouldn't let Hopkins 40 time steer you too much, he is a legit top 3 WR pick IMO and I think would be a great addition to MN. I think he understands how to play WR and is one of the safer picks.
Swope definitely helped himself out at the combine, but I think his concussion history needs to also be factored into his draft position. He grew up here in Austin where I live (same high school as Drew Brees and Nick Foles) and I've seen a lot of his growth. Very competitive and productive kid that seems to always fly under the radar. I was surprised at his 40 time.
Looking at the mock's it looks very plausible that one or two of (Patterson, Allen or Hopkins) will be available at #23. Anything outside of these 3 including Woods, than I would have a hard time grabbing one with our first pick. I think the run will start on WR's and they might start coming off pretty quickly, but I don't see the run starting until mid to late first round. DL talent is really strong in this year's draft, I think these guys will consume a lot of 1st round picks.
I saw Williams at Baylor under both RGIII and Florence. He caught a lot of TD's with both of them and appears at his best going deep. Might be too much of a one trick pony to pick him real high though, especially on a team like MN that needs a lot of help at WR.
Was listening to Sirius yesterday, Pat Kirwan, was asked what he thought Spielman would do. He narrowed it down pretty interestingly. He said the Vikes will be looking at WR, DT, and MLB. Boiled it down to making choices like...picking the 4th, 5th, or 6th DT, or, one of the top two or 3 WR's...or, their top MLB. He thought the Vikes would pull the trigger on their #1 or #2 WR...possibly #3 if the run of DT's forced picking someone ranked lower than Kawaan Short...or, they would pick their #1 MLB if there.
If I'm a betting man, Vikes go with Keenan Allen or a DT (Richardson, Short, Jesse Williams, Floyd) in Rd 1. If those five are gone by #23, Vikes will look at MLB, but, I just don't see it...could be wrong, but, it's their #1 or 2 WR or DT in Rd 1 IMHO. Next up would either be OSU DT Hankins or BPA (except QB, RB, LT, C ;)... I think Spielman would be happy with Hopkins, Woods, Patton, Williams, even Swope in Rd 2.