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  1. #21
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    We definitely didn't run the Cover 2... we couldn't cover anybody.
    Nice try - except for the fact that our passing D was actually rated 11th in yards per attempt...
    True, but last place overall...
    Only in passing yards per game.
    That is a skewed stat because we were second in the number of passing attempts against us per game.
    Our pass D was a lot better than most people gave them credit for.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #22
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    We definitely didn't run the Cover 2... we couldn't cover anybody.
    Nice try - except for the fact that our passing D was actually rated 11th in yards per attempt...
    True, but last place overall...
    Only in passing yards per game.
    That is a skewed stat because we were second in the number of passing attempts against us per game.
    Our pass D was a lot better than most people gave them credit for.
    pts/game is even a better stat and the Vikings were #12 in giving up the least amount of pts.
    Now the KAO will be a little further along so it should be a fine season for the purple shaded brood.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  3. #23
    davike's Avatar
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    We definitely didn't run the Cover 2... we couldn't cover anybody.
    Nice try - except for the fact that our passing D was actually rated 11th in yards per attempt...
    Thats because we had like 50 more attempts then anyone else. People passed on us constantly. And you must also keep in mind that when you are up by quite a bit, which we were in that 5 game winning streak we had, the defense will start playing with the "bend but don't break" idea. And so almost anyone could have quite a few yards on simple short passes.

    Thanks Josdin00 for the sig!

  4. #24
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    We definitely didn't run the Cover 2... we couldn't cover anybody.
    Nice try - except for the fact that our passing D was actually rated 11th in yards per attempt...
    True, but last place overall...
    Only in passing yards per game.
    That is a skewed stat because we were second in the number of passing attempts against us per game.
    Our pass D was a lot better than most people gave them credit for.
    pts/game is even a better stat and the Vikings were #12 in giving up the least amount of pts.
    Now the KAO will be a little further along so it should be a fine season for the purple shaded brood.
    Proph = 20,002 posts

    Good one!

    All I can say is that we aren't doing enough on either side of the ball to be a super bowl team.
    Got to improve on both Offense and Defense.
    We need to dictate to the other teams our will.



  5. #25
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    We definitely didn't run the Cover 2... we couldn't cover anybody.
    Nice try - except for the fact that our passing D was actually rated 11th in yards per attempt...
    True, but last place overall...
    Only in passing yards per game.
    That is a skewed stat because we were second in the number of passing attempts against us per game.
    Our pass D was a lot better than most people gave them credit for.
    pts/game is even a better stat and the Vikings were #12 in giving up the least amount of pts.
    Now the KAO will be a little further along so it should be a fine season for the purple shaded brood.
    There was a reason teams were passing against us, because the opposing teams knew they could.

    I agree with Prophet, Points/Game is a better indicator... however, stupid coaching such as having Marcus McCauley covering Santana Moss... now that's not the secondary's fault...

    Need I say more:


    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  6. #26
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "C" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    [quote author=C Mac D link=topic=43510.msg746474#msg746474 date=1206453797]
    We definitely didn't run the Cover 2... we couldn't cover anybody.
    Nice try - except for the fact that our passing D was actually rated 11th in yards per attempt...
    True, but last place overall...
    Only in passing yards per game.
    That is a skewed stat because we were second in the number of passing attempts against us per game.
    Our pass D was a lot better than most people gave them credit for.
    pts/game is even a better stat and the Vikings were #12 in giving up the least amount of pts.
    Now the KAO will be a little further along so it should be a fine season for the purple shaded brood.
    There was a reason teams were passing against us, because the opposing teams knew they could.

    I agree with Prophet, Points/Game is a better indicator... however, stupid coaching such as having Marcus McCauley covering Santana Moss... now that's not the secondary's fault...

    Need I say more:



    [/quote]
    Ahhhhhhhhhh, the clown is back.


    Comeon my friend.
    At least give me a heads up before you use that thing.
    ;D(lots of smiley faces) ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "C" wrote:
    There was a reason teams were passing against us, because the opposing teams knew they could.

    I agree with Prophet, Points/Game is a better indicator... however, stupid coaching such as having Marcus McCauley covering Santana Moss... now that's not the secondary's fault...
    You missed the point.
    Teams didn't pass against us because they knew they could... They passed against us because they simply couldn't run.
    Again, our passing D was in the top half of the league.
    You're a pretty smart guy C Mac, I know you can grasp that.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #28
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    That there is a double edged sword.
    Teams passed at us cuz they couldn't run.
    Which makes our run defense look even better, cuz it lowers those attempts.
    Makes our pass defense look worse than it really is, cuz with 50/atttempts a game, you're going to give up some yards...as long as the points don't go with it, we're OK.


    The big thing to me is sustaining drives so our defense doesn't have to win the game on its own.
    Too many games the past few years we saw the defense play tough in the first and third quarters, but get tired and sloppy late in halfs.
    If TJack improves and our OLine doesn't implode, the passing game should improve as well, and open up the running game some...which will improve our defense too.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  9. #29
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    There was a reason teams were passing against us, because the opposing teams knew they could.

    I agree with Prophet, Points/Game is a better indicator... however, stupid coaching such as having Marcus McCauley covering Santana Moss... now that's not the secondary's fault...
    You missed the point.
    Teams didn't pass against us because they knew they could... They passed against us because they simply couldn't run.
    Again, our passing D was in the top half of the league.
    You're a pretty smart guy C Mac, I know you can grasp that.
    I can grasp that, however, Tampa Bay had both a great Run-D and Pass-D the year they won the Super Bowl... How about the Ravens the year they won it?

    Just because teams are forced to pass against us doesn't mean our secondary has to give up a lot of yards.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  10. #30
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    Re: Do we really run a "west coast offense" and a "Cover 2" ??

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    The term WCO is a bit overused these days as it has morphed into so many different versions, however, there are two predominant philosophies when you discuss the WCO since the Bill Walsh era.

    One is, "Pass to set up the run", and the other is "Run to setup the pass".

    Here is a good discussion/set of links I provided DaVike in another thread a while ago.
    Very interesting reads if you have the time that will help you understand what variant we run.

    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...7982#msg727982

    As to our defense, I don't think you saw us "Give up" on our cover 2 scheme last year but rather get away from it a bit because we lacked the ability to get pressure from our front 4 which is what the whole defensive scheme is based off of.

    In an effort to get pressure on the QB they started to send LB'rs which inturn took LB'rs out of the zones that they would normally drop back into to take away the quick stuff like short slants and quick outs.

    That in turn had a trickle down affect as it made our CB's play a bit more press coverage which isn't thier strong suite.

    Again, I don't think we gave up on the scheme but were forced to come up with different ways to overcome the lack of pressure from our front 4.
    I totally agree it is a term overused. Yeah it was a good discussion. And enlightening as well. I know what you mean by you can run more and still be a WCO. But I do have one problem still though.

    This statement:
    One is, "Pass to set up the run", and the other is "Run to setup the pass".
    You have just described every offense in the NFL.

    In none of the articles does it say that WCO teams run to set up the pass. In some teams (Denver) they go about it differently, thats why they run more then they pass.

    Here are the articles you posted:

    http://www.kffl.com/article.php/73828/488

    Use the pass to set up the run. Most teams using the West Coast offense more often than not have a pass-first mindset, choosing to instead spread the defense out to get better matchups in the run game. (The major exception to this rule would be the system the Denver Broncos utilize.) The offense also should be prepared to throw on any down or distance during the game.
    Denver still pass to set up the run....the next article will explain.

    http://www.milehighreport.com/story/2008/2/23/192226/243

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5913880/West-Coast-Offense-Simplified

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_coast_offense

    A WCO is designed pretty much to stretch the field. But Welsh still intended it to be a pass to set up the run offense, which during his time was an uncommon thing. Thats why it worked so well, now days defenses are starting to learn it causing teams to create variations that aren't very similular to Welsh's at all.

    Thanks Josdin00 for the sig!

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