Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 61
  1. #1
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,935

    Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    It’s a slow day here at work and slow for NFL news on the PPO so I thought I would take some time and do some research on the “Zone Blocking Scheme” to see if our OL are the right fit for that scheme.
    ;D

    First I wanted to figure out what the “Zone Blocking Scheme” really was and how it differed from the traditional blocking schemes used by most NFL teams.

    I found out that the core of the zone-blocking scheme starts up front, with the lineman. The main goal of the zone blocking scheme is to block an area instead of just a man. It starts by two adjacent linemen coming to the play side and double teaming the defensive lineman, at the point of attack. This allows the lineman to be aggressive in case of a pinch or a stunt.

    When the original defensive lineman is neutralized, the lineman can then move to the next level and engage the linebacker. The lineman that moves to the next level depends on where the pressure is coming from. If the linebacker is coming from the outside, the outside blocker will break off and engage the linebacker. This creates holes at different levels for the running back to go through. This allows the back to make a cut and get up field quickly.

    The zone blocking scheme requires a different type of lineman to execute this system. Size and strength are secondary, while athleticism and awareness are paramount. A zone blocking lineman must be able to move expeditiously to the next level and engage lineman, instead of being engaged. Football knowledge and awareness are important in order to know where to go, and who to engage.

    The zone blocking scheme also requires different breed of running back. Speed is not a necessity. More emphasis is put on vision and patience. The running back must have the patience to wait for the hole to open, and then the vision to see the hole in the next level. Explosion and cutback ability are also very important in this scheme. Once the back sees the hole open up, the back must cut into the lane and get north and south very quickly. This running system allows backs to get into the second level and then the back's natural athleticism can take over.

    Another benefit of the zone blocking scheme that seemed to crop up throughout the articles I read was the fact that the Zone blocking is a system that changes little from week to week making it easier for teams to game plan for upcoming games.

    O.K. now that I’ve figured out what the scheme is what kindof
    OL are required to execute/run it.
    :

    To help with this, I found that most teams, when looking for players to fit the scheme, pay attention to two workout numbers: the short shuttle and 3 cone drills.
    These two numbers are pretty good indicators of how fast, agile and/or athletic linemen will be.

    With that said, I went to ESPN to get our roster as it stands today (probably missed somebody
    ;D). According to ESPN here is what we have to work with: (Had to google each individual player for thier workout times).

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/roster?team=min

    Matt Birk, C, 6-4, 309 lbs,
    4.18 short shuttle and 7.22 three-cone drill
    Ryan Cook, C, 6-6, 328 lbs, 4.44 short shuttle and 7.26 three-cone drill
    Cullen Loeffler, C, 6-5, 241 lbs, 4.66 short shuttle and a 7.77 three-cone drill
    Marcus Johnson, OT, 6-6, 321 lbs, 4.22 short shuttle and a 6.93 three-cone drill
    Bryant McKinnie, OT, 6-8, 335 lbs, 4.40 short shuttle and a 7.35 seconds three-cone drill
    Anthony Herrera, OG, 6-2, 315 lbs, Because he had a bad ankle he didn’t run in the SS or 3 Cone. His his 40 times were 5.31 and 5.38 and 0-yard dash in 1.87.
    Artis Hicks, OG, 6-4, 335
    lbs, 4.31 short shuttle and 7.28 three-cone drill
    Steve Hutchinson, OG, 6-5, 313 lbs.
    Couldn’t find any times on him.

    I looked but couldn’t find anything that said what defined a good short shuttle and three-cone drill time so I decided to take a look at the OL stats for the team that is so closely associated with the Zone-blocking scheme.

    According to ESPN here is what the Bronco’s have. (Used same link)

    Denver Broncos
    Nalen, C, 6-3, a 4.22 short shuttle and a 6.93 three-cone drill.
    Myers, C,
    6-4, 300 lbs 4.38 in the short shuttle, a 7.38 in the cone drill
    Meadows, OT, 6-5, 290 lbs, a 4.33 in the short shuttle and a 7.48 in the three-cone drill.
    Pears, OT,
    6-8, 305 lbs, 4.39 short shuttle and 7.61 three-cone drill
    Foster, OT, 6-5, 338 lbs, a 4.53 short shuttle, 7.47 three-cone drill
    Carlisle, OG, 6-5, 295 lbs, Couldn’t find a short shuttle time but he did the three-cone drill in 7.34 seconds
    Hamilton, OG, 6-4, 283 lbs, Couldn’t find any times.
    Kuper, OG, 6-4, 302 lbs, a 4.44 short shuttle and 7.26 three-cone drill

    Probably not an exact science but our guys in almost all cases are bigger (poundage) and faster in their times.
    So technically our guys fit the mold, with the exception of weighing more than "Normal", to run the zone blocking scheme even though they are a bit heavier because of their speed/athleticism.

    On a side note I am providing the following link for two reasons.

    1. Gives you stat guys some pretty interesting data that you can also use to look at production between the two different schemes.

    ;D

    2. I really liked the following quote as it articulated what has been discussed in multiple threads on this site about how long should B-chill and his coaching staff have to start producing and our OL to gel.
    ;D

    The "Denver system" isn’t a magical pill that a team can swallow to generate 1500 yard rushers with consistency, but obviously it has been successful for running backs in Denver. One reason it has not been widely adopted is time: it takes time to teach, time to master, and time to get the smaller, more agile offensive linemen that the system requires. If you take zone blocking and try to implement it with 340 pound behemoths, you will probably fail, and for better or for worse, 340 pound behemoths are what you’ll find on a typical offensive line in the NFL.


    In closing I was suprised to find out (contrary to my belief otherwise) that we do have some “behemoths” on our line that really do fit the "Zone-blocking Scheme".

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/print/2484/
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #2
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    881

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    A lot of blocking schemes have an element of zone in them.

    True zone blocking teams seem to do an awful lot of cut blocking. We do not...

    This looks like more of a Chilly hybrid much like the whole offense is a hybrid or a KAO, or in terms I can understand and relate to a CLUSTER FUCK.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

    My posts are worth 6 of yours.

  3. #3
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,604
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    The "Denver system" isn’t a magical pill that a team can swallow to generate 1500 yard rushers with consistency, but obviously it has been successful for running backs in Denver. One reason it has not been widely adopted is time: it takes time to teach, time to master, and time to get the smaller, more agile offensive linemen that the system requires. If you take zone blocking and try to implement it with 340 pound behemoths, you will probably fail, and for better or for worse, 340 pound behemoths are what you’ll find on a typical offensive line in the NFL.
    Nice research Marrdo.
    I never really understand what zone blocking is about (and despite your great research, I am only slightly more clear on the subject ).

    However, I think the above quote in bold is fairly important.
    It takes time to implement it right.
    To be honest, I don't know if our OL is suited for zone blocking.
    I think they could do better right now with the old style of blocking.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #4
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
    Mr Anderson is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    7,692

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    I posted something similar to this in my giant post a few months ago. So instead of reiterating myself, I'll just quote myself.

    Offensive line:

    I am not going to individually discuss the line, but I will speak of them as a unit.

    My main concern is Zone Blocking.

    The average height and weight of our offensive line. Is 6'6 320 pounds. With the behemoths we have up front it makes no sense for us to run a zone blocking offense. Typically zone blocking schemes are intended for teams with smaller, more athletic offensive linemen.
    He are some examples:
    Denver Broncos average size. 6'5 291 pounds.
    Indianapolis Colts: 6'4 306.
    Atlanta Falcons: 6'3 303 pounds.
    Tennessee Titans: 6'5 309 pounds.

    All of these teams have very small linemen all around, but all have huge left tackles for pass blocking purposes. These big guys at LT kind of skew my data, but the rest of the line is far smaller. Where on the Vikings our whole line is huge.
    Some of you may be thinking "Hey, Chester Taylor was great this year, so zone blocking must be pretty good." If you're thinking that... you're wrong.
    Comparing our rushing numbers to that of the other zone blocking teams I have mentioned shows that very clearly.

    Team Rushing Stats:
    Denver Broncos:
    2152 yards. 4.4 yards per carry. #8 in the NFL.
    Indianapolis Colts: 1762 yards. 4.0 yards per carry. #18 in the NFL.
    Atlanta Falcons: 2939 yards. 5.5 yards per carry. #1 in the NFL.
    Tennessee Titans: 2214 yards. 4.7 yards per carry. #5 in the NFL.
    Minnesota Vikings: 1820 yards. 4.1 yards per carry. #16 in the NFL.

    Indianapolis is the only team behind us on that list; however, they do not have a running back like Chester Taylor.

    We need to move away from zone blocking and return to a traditional power blocking scheme.
    Offensive line is another position we will address in Free Agency, and maybe late in the draft.

    Hopefully this offense can turn itself around next season, and get our defense off the field for more than 3 plays at a time.
    http://www.purplepride.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=88888914&topic=307 10.0

  5. #5
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,935

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    "Mr" wrote:
    I posted something similar to this in my giant post a few months ago. So instead of reiterating myself, I'll just quote myself.

    Offensive line:

    I am not going to individually discuss the line, but I will speak of them as a unit.

    My main concern is Zone Blocking.

    The average height and weight of our offensive line. Is 6'6 320 pounds. With the behemoths we have up front it makes no sense for us to run a zone blocking offense. Typically zone blocking schemes are intended for teams with smaller, more athletic offensive linemen.
    He are some examples:
    Denver Broncos average size. 6'5 291 pounds.
    Indianapolis Colts: 6'4 306.
    Atlanta Falcons: 6'3 303 pounds.
    Tennessee Titans: 6'5 309 pounds.

    All of these teams have very small linemen all around, but all have huge left tackles for pass blocking purposes. These big guys at LT kind of skew my data, but the rest of the line is far smaller. Where on the Vikings our whole line is huge.

    We need to move away from zone blocking and return to a traditional power blocking scheme.
    Offensive line is another position we will address in Free Agency, and maybe late in the draft.

    Hopefully this offense can turn itself around next season, and get our defense off the field for more than 3 plays at a time.
    http://www.purplepride.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=88888914&topic=307 10.0
    I thought I saw something along these lines but couldn't find it.
    Thanks.

    Your take is that they are to big.
    Didn't really see you address the speed/athletic ability required by the OL in this scheme.

    My take is that they are big and fast.
    Fast being the criteria for fitting into a Zone Blocking Scheme.

    Add another spin on this..........

    Del makes a good point here (not sure if he intended it this way or not)
    :

    [quote][This looks like more of a Chilly hybrid much like the whole offense is a hybrid or a KAO, or in terms I can understand and relate to a CLUSTER floop./quote]

    and another in a thread "Childress on Cook" I think, were he mentions the complexity of our blocking scheme (I am paraphrasing) causing indecision which in turn leads to penalties.

    When added together might imply that maybe ole B-chill is looking for a guy that can do both, Zone and Traditional Man-to-Man.
    If so it would be a monumental task/undertaking to implement/execute at the level he is undertaking but can you imgine the flexibility he would have and the nightmare it would cause for D-coordinators IF he could pull it off? ;D

    We will have to wait and see.
    Until then, I am still undecided but see your point.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #6
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    8,618

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    "Del" wrote:
    A lot of blocking schemes have an element of zone in them.

    True zone blocking teams seem to do an awful lot of cut blocking. We do not...

    This looks like more of a Chilly hybrid much like the whole offense is a hybrid or a KAO, or in terms I can understand and relate to a CLUSTER FUCK.
    It's a kick ass cluster fuck offense!

  7. #7
    vikings11_27 is offline Pro-Bowler
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    459

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    It’s a slow day here at work and slow for NFL news on the PPO so I thought I would take some time and do some research on the “Zone Blocking Scheme” to see if our OL are the right fit for that scheme.
    ;D

    First I wanted to figure out what the “Zone Blocking Scheme” really was and how it differed from the traditional blocking schemes used by most NFL teams.

    I found out that the core of the zone-blocking scheme starts up front, with the lineman. The main goal of the zone blocking scheme is to block an area instead of just a man. It starts by two adjacent linemen coming to the play side and double teaming the defensive lineman, at the point of attack. This allows the lineman to be aggressive in case of a pinch or a stunt.

    When the original defensive lineman is neutralized, the lineman can then move to the next level and engage the linebacker. The lineman that moves to the next level depends on where the pressure is coming from. If the linebacker is coming from the outside, the outside blocker will break off and engage the linebacker. This creates holes at different levels for the running back to go through. This allows the back to make a cut and get up field quickly.

    The zone blocking scheme requires a different type of lineman to execute this system. Size and strength are secondary, while athleticism and awareness are paramount. A zone blocking lineman must be able to move expeditiously to the next level and engage lineman, instead of being engaged. Football knowledge and awareness are important in order to know where to go, and who to engage.

    The zone blocking scheme also requires different breed of running back. Speed is not a necessity. More emphasis is put on vision and patience. The running back must have the patience to wait for the hole to open, and then the vision to see the hole in the next level. Explosion and cutback ability are also very important in this scheme. Once the back sees the hole open up, the back must cut into the lane and get north and south very quickly. This running system allows backs to get into the second level and then the back's natural athleticism can take over.

    Another benefit of the zone blocking scheme that seemed to crop up throughout the articles I read was the fact that the Zone blocking is a system that changes little from week to week making it easier for teams to game plan for upcoming games.

    O.K. now that I’ve figured out what the scheme is what kindof
    OL are required to execute/run it.
    :

    To help with this, I found that most teams, when looking for players to fit the scheme, pay attention to two workout numbers: the short shuttle and 3 cone drills.
    These two numbers are pretty good indicators of how fast, agile and/or athletic linemen will be.

    With that said, I went to ESPN to get our roster as it stands today (probably missed somebody
    ;D). According to ESPN here is what we have to work with: (Had to google each individual player for thier workout times).

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/roster?team=min

    Matt Birk, C, 6-4, 309 lbs,
    4.18 short shuttle and 7.22 three-cone drill
    Ryan Cook, C, 6-6, 328 lbs, 4.44 short shuttle and 7.26 three-cone drill
    Cullen Loeffler, C, 6-5, 241 lbs, 4.66 short shuttle and a 7.77 three-cone drill
    Marcus Johnson, OT, 6-6, 321 lbs, 4.22 short shuttle and a 6.93 three-cone drill
    Bryant McKinnie, OT, 6-8, 335 lbs, 4.40 short shuttle and a 7.35 seconds three-cone drill
    Anthony Herrera, OG, 6-2, 315 lbs, Because he had a bad ankle he didn’t run in the SS or 3 Cone. His his 40 times were 5.31 and 5.38 and 0-yard dash in 1.87.
    Artis Hicks, OG, 6-4, 335
    lbs, 4.31 short shuttle and 7.28 three-cone drill
    Steve Hutchinson, OG, 6-5, 313 lbs.
    Couldn’t find any times on him.

    I looked but couldn’t find anything that said what defined a good short shuttle and three-cone drill time so I decided to take a look at the OL stats for the team that is so closely associated with the Zone-blocking scheme.

    According to ESPN here is what the Bronco’s have. (Used same link)

    Denver Broncos
    Nalen, C, 6-3, a 4.22 short shuttle and a 6.93 three-cone drill.
    Myers, C,
    6-4, 300 lbs 4.38 in the short shuttle, a 7.38 in the cone drill
    Meadows, OT, 6-5, 290 lbs, a 4.33 in the short shuttle and a 7.48 in the three-cone drill.
    Pears, OT,
    6-8, 305 lbs, 4.39 short shuttle and 7.61 three-cone drill
    Foster, OT, 6-5, 338 lbs, a 4.53 short shuttle, 7.47 three-cone drill
    Carlisle, OG, 6-5, 295 lbs, Couldn’t find a short shuttle time but he did the three-cone drill in 7.34 seconds
    Hamilton, OG, 6-4, 283 lbs, Couldn’t find any times.
    Kuper, OG, 6-4, 302 lbs, a 4.44 short shuttle and 7.26 three-cone drill

    Probably not an exact science but our guys in almost all cases are bigger (poundage) and faster in their times.
    So technically our guys fit the mold, with the exception of weighing more than "Normal", to run the zone blocking scheme even though they are a bit heavier because of their speed/athleticism.

    On a side note I am providing the following link for two reasons.

    1. Gives you stat guys some pretty interesting data that you can also use to look at production between the two different schemes.

    ;D

    2. I really liked the following quote as it articulated what has been discussed in multiple threads on this site about how long should B-chill and his coaching staff have to start producing and our OL to gel.
    ;D

    The "Denver system" isn’t a magical pill that a team can swallow to generate 1500 yard rushers with consistency, but obviously it has been successful for running backs in Denver. One reason it has not been widely adopted is time: it takes time to teach, time to master, and time to get the smaller, more agile offensive linemen that the system requires. If you take zone blocking and try to implement it with 340 pound behemoths, you will probably fail, and for better or for worse, 340 pound behemoths are what you’ll find on a typical offensive line in the NFL.


    In closing I was suprised to find out (contrary to my belief otherwise) that we do have some “behemoths” on our line that really do fit the "Zone-blocking Scheme".

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/print/2484/
    Well thought out...good evidence...nice post

  8. #8
    BadlandsVikings's Avatar
    BadlandsVikings is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    26,572

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    "Ltrey" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    A lot of blocking schemes have an element of zone in them.

    True zone blocking teams seem to do an awful lot of cut blocking. We do not...

    This looks like more of a Chilly hybrid much like the whole offense is a hybrid or a KAO, or in terms I can understand and relate to a CLUSTER FUCK.
    It's a kick ass cluster fuck offense!
    KACFO....Sounds good to me

  9. #9
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,281

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    A lot of blocking schemes have an element of zone in them.

    True zone blocking teams seem to do an awful lot of cut blocking. We do not...

    This looks like more of a Chilly hybrid much like the whole offense is a hybrid or a KAO, or in terms I can understand and relate to a CLUSTER FUCK.
    It's a kick ass cluster fuck offense!
    KACFO....Sounds good to me
    I remember the cluster fuck but the kick ass part i don't think properly depicts our offense.
    ???

  10. #10
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    8,618

    Re: Do Our Lineman Fit The Zone-Blocking Scheme

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    A lot of blocking schemes have an element of zone in them.

    True zone blocking teams seem to do an awful lot of cut blocking. We do not...

    This looks like more of a Chilly hybrid much like the whole offense is a hybrid or a KAO, or in terms I can understand and relate to a CLUSTER FUCK.
    It's a kick ass cluster fuck offense!
    KACFO....Sounds good to me
    I remember the cluster fuck but the kick ass part i don't think properly depicts our offense.
    ???
    Have you ever heard that quote?

    The Chiller said it's a "kick ass" offense last offseason, which has turned into a joke for obvious reasons.

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Zone Blocking - This was a really good read...
    By bsmithberkley in forum General NFL Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-09-2010, 11:16 AM
  2. Zone blocking? Square peg round hole?
    By gagarr in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 10-14-2008, 06:31 AM
  3. Zone blocking - again in '08 ?
    By StillPurple in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-02-2008, 06:09 PM
  4. Zone or man blocking ?
    By StillPurple in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 08-09-2007, 04:46 PM
  5. Like it or not, zone blocking is here
    By singersp in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-11-2006, 11:56 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •