Thread: Denny bidding for Culpepper

"ejmat" wrote:

Since everyone believes in backing your opinions up with stats, here you go:

In my posts I said Pep has great yardage and TDs: 20,134 yards and 135 TDs in 80 games. Pretty darn impressive. Also count his rushing yardage (2458) and rushing TDs (29). All very impressive numbers.

I also mentioned he had a lot of INTs and fumbles: 86 INTs and 81 fumbles (33 lost).

Averaging over 1 INT and over 1 fumble per game. Lost fumbles or not it's still a fumble and it's always dangerous to put the ball on the ground.

I also mentioned a sub .500 record (40-43 as a starter). Counting regular and post-seasons.

The one stat I can't back up is how many 4th quarter (come from behind) victories he's had. I don't think anyone here can argue that he hasn't had many but who knows. Someone will find a way to.

Anyone can write and say we need to keep Pep. He's great. He's a franchise QB. I agree with all of that. I want to keep him. I do think he's got awesome talent, and he is our franchise QB. The only thing I want everyone to do is look at the whole picture. Here is the whole picture. When you look at it, it is not HOF numbers. Sorry, but it's not. I'd like it to be but it's not.

Favre INTs - 16.75/season or 1.10/games started
DC INT's - 13.23/season or 1.08/games started

So does Favre deserve to be considered?

If so, I think he does, then all DC needs to do is win a SB and it will be a level playing field, and play for 15 years.

If he plays 15 years and keeps at this pace, I don't know how he doesn't get into the HOF even if he doesn't win a SB.

Right now, he doesn't get in. If he had 3 SB like Brady, or even 1 and a great winning percentage I would say, yes, now.

The fumbles IMO don't matter that much.

"ejmat" wrote:

I think we are on the same page here too except for I don't think 16 INTs per year is very good. I think that would fall into the not so good realm. 16 fumbles per year is also not so good. You campared McNabb. Let's look at his stats. Since 1999, he has played in 91 games. He has 130 passing TDs, 20 rushing TDs, 18677 yards passing, 2467 rushing, 62 INTs (highest in a season was 13 in his first full season), and 50 fumbles (32 lost). Yes in my opinion a fumble is a fumble whether your team recovers or not.

Granted, Pep has more TDs and passing yards in less games but remember McNabb didn't have a Moss to throw to for 5 years or a TO until last year. The guy has been to the NFC Championship game 4 straight years and the Superbowl once. He also started when the Eagles were not that good (3-13 in 1998). Pep took over a very good Viking team (10-6 in 1999). McNabb has a regular season record of 65-26. Not too shabby.

Again, we are on the same page as far as Pep having a chance to make it in the HOF. No doubt with his potential, he can be. All I'm saying is if I were to compare him to most HOFers, his numbers (except TDs and yards) do not match up. To me a HOFer is consistent. Except for last year he hasn't been consistent. Even last year he had 12 INTs. Not good compared to other GOOD QBs. Of course the argument is Pep throws more than McNabb. No doubt that is true. So he should have more yards, more TDs, more INTs but not more fumbles.

12 INTs is definitely GOOD compared to other QBS, all-time and right now. He is not throwing 12 INTS while throwing 14 TDS like Mike Vick. His interception percentage. Now, throwing 16 is definitely not GOOD, but it is not bad, it is about average all-time and right now for solid QBs who play ever single game, especially those in pass-happy offenses. Remember, McNabb was the first QB EVER to throw 30+ TDs with less than 10 INTS ... 10-15 INTS is LOW for QBs in passing offenses. And I already said that McNabb and Brady are damn close to Hall of Fame locks, so I was not placing C-Pep above McNabb. I think you just are not looking at the whole picture when it comes to INTS. Here is an excessive list of Hall of Famers including Manning, McNabb and C-Pep.
P.Manning 125 INTS in 119 career games
McNabb 62 INTs in 91 games (some garbage time his rookie year too helps that number)
C-Pep 86 INTS in 80 games (a little more than Manning but very similar), Favre 234 INTs in 215 games
Marino 252 in 242 games
Unitas 253 in 211
Young 107 in 169
Montanta 139 in 192
Namath 220 in 140
Fouts 242 in 181
Baugh 203 in 165
Tark 266 in 246
Tittle 221 in 178
Elway 226 in 234
Moon 233 in 208
Kelly 175 in 160
Aikman 141 in 165
Bradshaw 210 in 168
ONLY Young, Elway, Montana, McNabb and Aikman threw less INTs than games played. The overall ratio of these HALL OF FAME QBS is 1.07 INTs per game, and even a little higher per start, but I am at work :lol: If you take out the freakish numbers of Montana and Young then the ratio goes up to 1.12 per game. D.C. right now is throwing 1.075 per contest ... and was throwing an even ONE coming into the season. Hardly a lot of interceptions based on these standards. The overall ratio of the HALL OF FAME QBs is 17 INTs per season. Right at that number I was trying to say is not that bad.
All right, back to my life now.

"snowinapril" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

Since everyone believes in backing your opinions up with stats, here you go:

In my posts I said Pep has great yardage and TDs: 20,134 yards and 135 TDs in 80 games. Pretty darn impressive. Also count his rushing yardage (2458) and rushing TDs (29). All very impressive numbers.

I also mentioned he had a lot of INTs and fumbles: 86 INTs and 81 fumbles (33 lost).

Averaging over 1 INT and over 1 fumble per game. Lost fumbles or not it's still a fumble and it's always dangerous to put the ball on the ground.

I also mentioned a sub .500 record (40-43 as a starter). Counting regular and post-seasons.

The one stat I can't back up is how many 4th quarter (come from behind) victories he's had. I don't think anyone here can argue that he hasn't had many but who knows. Someone will find a way to.

Anyone can write and say we need to keep Pep. He's great. He's a franchise QB. I agree with all of that. I want to keep him. I do think he's got awesome talent, and he is our franchise QB. The only thing I want everyone to do is look at the whole picture. Here is the whole picture. When you look at it, it is not HOF numbers. Sorry, but it's not. I'd like it to be but it's not.

Favre INTs - 16.75/season or 1.10/games started
DC INT's - 13.23/season or 1.08/games started

So does Favre deserve to be considered?

If so, I think he does, then all DC needs to do is win a SB and it will be a level playing field, and play for 15 years.

If he plays 15 years and keeps at this pace, I don't know how he doesn't get into the HOF even if he doesn't win a SB.

Right now, he doesn't get in. If he had 3 SB like Brady, or even 1 and a great winning percentage I would say, yes, now.

The fumbles IMO don't matter that much.

Obviously lost fumbles matter, but they are not nearly as important as the TD, Yards and INT numbers for a QB. Fumbles overall is a silly stat because a fumbled snap counts as a fumble for a QB and that is ridiculous, also, many QBs in Culpepper's like (Vick, McNair, Baugh, etc.) fumble while running the ball, which is a whole different stat category, but gets lumped in the same. If he plays 10 years at this pace he will be a lock for the Hall of Fame, the question is whether you think he keeps this pace.

"VKG4LFE" wrote:

Finally someone caught him!!

So, thats his secret.

"midgensa" wrote:

Obviously lost fumbles matter, but they are not nearly as important as the TD, Yards and INT numbers for a QB. Fumbles overall is a silly stat because a fumbled snap counts as a fumble for a QB and that is ridiculous, also, many QBs in Culpepper's like (Vick, McNair, Baugh, etc.) fumble while running the ball, which is a whole different stat category, but gets lumped in the same. If he plays 10 years at this pace he will be a lock for the Hall of Fame, the question is whether you think he keeps this pace.

I think lost fumbles will be reflected in the win loss record, and it doesn't need to me looked at individually. Kinda goes for INTs also.

Yards, TDs, wins, comp %, and INTs

other factors individually looked at

game streaks, suberbowls, consistantly

It would say a lot if DC could salvage his numbers from here on out.