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  1. #21
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    Purple Floyd wrote:
    midgensa wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    vike_mike wrote:
    This is what Percy Harvin said:

    "Hopefully [in the future] we can just open it up from the jump street," Harvin said, "and not have to fight back at the end of the game. If we had come out and had some of the play calling we had in the second half, I think it would be a different outcome."

    I believe that says it all. I saw Moss on the sideline with Bevell tweaking some of the plays that they would run. This is happening in the 4th quarter. Little late isn't it?
    Hey Mike, Mars was telling me this was your first live game. Sorry for the let down. Next one will be better or the beers are on me.

    I think what you were seeing was Randy trying to tell Bevs what he felt he could do against the coverages while looking at the playbook and not so much him changing any plays.

    Until they get the verbiage down, my guess is we will see that kindof stuff happening between Randy and the rest of the team/staff.
    This is CLEARLY a coaching issue that has plagued this staff from Day 1 in Minnesota.

    They almost ALWAYS start very conservatively and very slow. This has GOT to change.

    It cost us a game last night ... it cost us a game in Chicago last season that may have given us home field against the Saints.

    It cost us a game against New Orleans this season.

    I LOVE feeding AD the rock early ... but if that is all you do and you call predictable short route pass plays that don't have enough receiving options you are limiting the immense amount of skill player talent we have and focusing too much of the offense on a suspect offensive line.

    I am very curious to see what this staff comes out with against Dallas this week. We came out slow against them in the playoffs last season before destroying them ... lets just destroy them from the get go on Sunday.
    I think it is pretty widely known that I was one of the very first members of fire Childress Anonymous but I am going to disagree with you a bit on this post.

    If you go back to the first year Childress was coaching, it was pretty standard fare that the team would go down the field on the first drive of the game and score points. But then after that the defenses would make adjustments and the offense would stall out the rest of the game. That to me said that the staff was actually doing a decent job of preparing the team because the initial scripted plays worked well and the team executed them successfully.Coming out in the 2nd half the team was not making good adjustments like the opposition was and that IMHO was the biggest problem with the beginning of his career.

    Fast forward to this year and I am seeing pretty much the opposite where we are starting slow and it has been taking until the 2nd half to get things going. To me that says for whatever reason they have improved their ability to make adjustments to the defense (I credit this with the addition of Brett, who like him or not is excellent at knowing how to react to changes in defensive formations)but they just don't look like they are ready to play at the beginning of the game. To me it seems that the team is not buying into the gameplan the staff is putting together and they are not focused on the task at hand.

    Part of me wonders if Childress is losing the proverbial locker room.
    Great post, I agree with most of it.

    But have one question/balls to bust: What exactly makes the locker room "proverbial?"

  2. #22
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    Mr Anderson wrote:
    Purple Floyd wrote:
    midgensa wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    vike_mike wrote:
    This is what Percy Harvin said:

    "Hopefully [in the future] we can just open it up from the jump street," Harvin said, "and not have to fight back at the end of the game. If we had come out and had some of the play calling we had in the second half, I think it would be a different outcome."

    I believe that says it all. I saw Moss on the sideline with Bevell tweaking some of the plays that they would run. This is happening in the 4th quarter. Little late isn't it?
    Hey Mike, Mars was telling me this was your first live game. Sorry for the let down. Next one will be better or the beers are on me.

    I think what you were seeing was Randy trying to tell Bevs what he felt he could do against the coverages while looking at the playbook and not so much him changing any plays.

    Until they get the verbiage down, my guess is we will see that kindof stuff happening between Randy and the rest of the team/staff.
    This is CLEARLY a coaching issue that has plagued this staff from Day 1 in Minnesota.

    They almost ALWAYS start very conservatively and very slow. This has GOT to change.

    It cost us a game last night ... it cost us a game in Chicago last season that may have given us home field against the Saints.

    It cost us a game against New Orleans this season.

    I LOVE feeding AD the rock early ... but if that is all you do and you call predictable short route pass plays that don't have enough receiving options you are limiting the immense amount of skill player talent we have and focusing too much of the offense on a suspect offensive line.

    I am very curious to see what this staff comes out with against Dallas this week. We came out slow against them in the playoffs last season before destroying them ... lets just destroy them from the get go on Sunday.
    I think it is pretty widely known that I was one of the very first members of fire Childress Anonymous but I am going to disagree with you a bit on this post.

    If you go back to the first year Childress was coaching, it was pretty standard fare that the team would go down the field on the first drive of the game and score points. But then after that the defenses would make adjustments and the offense would stall out the rest of the game. That to me said that the staff was actually doing a decent job of preparing the team because the initial scripted plays worked well and the team executed them successfully.Coming out in the 2nd half the team was not making good adjustments like the opposition was and that IMHO was the biggest problem with the beginning of his career.

    Fast forward to this year and I am seeing pretty much the opposite where we are starting slow and it has been taking until the 2nd half to get things going. To me that says for whatever reason they have improved their ability to make adjustments to the defense (I credit this with the addition of Brett, who like him or not is excellent at knowing how to react to changes in defensive formations)but they just don't look like they are ready to play at the beginning of the game. To me it seems that the team is not buying into the gameplan the staff is putting together and they are not focused on the task at hand.

    Part of me wonders if Childress is losing the proverbial locker room.
    Great post, I agree with most of it.

    But have one question/balls to bust: What exactly makes the locker room "proverbial?"
    Nothing until you lose it.

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    midgensa wrote:
    I LOVE feeding AD the rock early ... but if that is all you do and you call predictable short route pass plays that don't have enough receiving options you are limiting the immense amount of skill player talent we have and focusing too much of the offense on a suspect offensive line.
    As usual, good stuff Midg. Just one comment.....

    I don't think I would say that short passing routes are predictable. Boring yes, but not predictable. I would use the term "Unstoppable" because they are, especially if the box isn't flooded with players (I.e. LB'rs/S's).

    Until we see teams playing us honest with a 7 or 6 man front, we won't be able to exploit anything as they will continue to mugg up with thier LB's and come looking for the QB and get AD on the way.

    I think the staff will continue to run Randy on the 3, 5, 7 and 8 routes and Lewis/BB on the 8, 9 routes like we saw hints of against the Jets with PH getting alot of looks on the 2, 4 and 5 routes.

    That approach should really force teams to drop LB's into the 5 to 10 yard range and keep more than one S back outside of the 10-15 yard range.


    Should alleviate more defenders than we have blockers which will help the OL in pass protection as well as AD finding easier running lanes.

    I am very curious to see what this staff comes out with against Dallas this week. We came out slow against them in the playoffs last season before destroying them ... lets just destroy them from the get go on Sunday.
    See my comments above. We need to force them to use those S's in coverage (they suck) and keep those LB's back off the line.

    Shanc should/could help in that area I think.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
    midgensa's Avatar
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    Marrdro wrote:
    midgensa wrote:
    I LOVE feeding AD the rock early ... but if that is all you do and you call predictable short route pass plays that don't have enough receiving options you are limiting the immense amount of skill player talent we have and focusing too much of the offense on a suspect offensive line.
    As usual, good stuff Midg. Just one comment.....

    I don't think I would say that short passing routes are predictable. Boring yes, but not predictable. I would use the term "Unstoppable" because they are, especially if the box isn't flooded with players (I.e. LB'rs/S's).

    Until we see teams playing us honest with a 7 or 6 man front, we won't be able to exploit anything as they will continue to mugg up with thier LB's and come looking for the QB and get AD on the way.

    I think the staff will continue to run Randy on the 3, 5, 7 and 8 routes and Lewis/BB on the 8, 9 routes like we saw hints of against the Jets with PH getting alot of looks on the 2, 4 and 5 routes.

    That approach should really force teams to drop LB's into the 5 to 10 yard range and keep more than one S back outside of the 10-15 yard range.


    Should alleviate more defenders than we have blockers which will help the OL in pass protection as well as AD finding easier running lanes.

    I am very curious to see what this staff comes out with against Dallas this week. We came out slow against them in the playoffs last season before destroying them ... lets just destroy them from the get go on Sunday.
    See my comments above. We need to force them to use those S's in coverage (they suck) and keep those LB's back off the line.

    Shanc should/could help in that area I think.
    I agree with the Shank comment no doubt.

    What I more or less meant with the "predictable" statement was that early in the Jets game we called short passes that were fairly easy routes to cover because we didn't spice anything up.

    We also were keeping the TE in for a little longer than normal and often looked as though we gave Brett maybe only 4, and sometimes 3, receiving options with only quick reads, not allowing much development.

    I think this hamstrung the offense a lot ... and has done so quite often in the pass, before we decide, shit, open it up ... and then look 10x better.

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    Purple Floyd wrote:
    Fast forward to this year and I am seeing pretty much the opposite where we are starting slow and it has been taking until the 2nd half to get things going. To me that says for whatever reason they have improved their ability to make adjustments to the defense (I credit this with the addition of Brett, who like him or not is excellent at knowing how to react to changes in defensive formations)but they just don't look like they are ready to play at the beginning of the game. To me it seems that the team is not buying into the gameplan the staff is putting together and they are not focused on the task at hand.
    I am seeing the exact opposit.

    Our biggest problem isn't play calling and the adjustments associated with that aspect of the game, but rather, play selection based on pre-snap reads.

    That, IMHO, can only be attributed to the QB making incorrect reads at the line which can only result from reading a defense wrong.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    Marrdro wrote:
    Purple Floyd wrote:
    Fast forward to this year and I am seeing pretty much the opposite where we are starting slow and it has been taking until the 2nd half to get things going. To me that says for whatever reason they have improved their ability to make adjustments to the defense (I credit this with the addition of Brett, who like him or not is excellent at knowing how to react to changes in defensive formations)but they just don't look like they are ready to play at the beginning of the game. To me it seems that the team is not buying into the gameplan the staff is putting together and they are not focused on the task at hand.
    I am seeing the exact opposit.

    Our biggest problem isn't play calling and the adjustments associated with that aspect of the game, but rather, play selection based on pre-snap reads.

    That, IMHO, can only be attributed to the QB making incorrect reads at the line which can only result from reading a defense wrong.
    I feel like it might be a combination of both ... but I definitely feel like the playcalling has been pretty bad as well. We are far too vanilla for the amount of talent we have ...

    And as you saw in the third-fourth quarters vs. the Jets ... we NEED to open things up. It provides more edges for AD and it provides openings for Harvin (who is still EXTREMELY explosive despite his slow start).

    The pre-snap reads do need to get better no doubt ... but the conservative "I don't want to let Brett fuck-up" approach Chilly has taken early in games this season is going to kill us.

    We made our bed with #4 ... you have to set him loose ... you can't coach to avoid mistakes with Favre, or it just leads to ... well ... mistakes.

  7. #27
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    midgensa wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    midgensa wrote:
    I LOVE feeding AD the rock early ... but if that is all you do and you call predictable short route pass plays that don't have enough receiving options you are limiting the immense amount of skill player talent we have and focusing too much of the offense on a suspect offensive line.
    As usual, good stuff Midg. Just one comment.....

    I don't think I would say that short passing routes are predictable. Boring yes, but not predictable. I would use the term "Unstoppable" because they are, especially if the box isn't flooded with players (I.e. LB'rs/S's).

    Until we see teams playing us honest with a 7 or 6 man front, we won't be able to exploit anything as they will continue to mugg up with thier LB's and come looking for the QB and get AD on the way.

    I think the staff will continue to run Randy on the 3, 5, 7 and 8 routes and Lewis/BB on the 8, 9 routes like we saw hints of against the Jets with PH getting alot of looks on the 2, 4 and 5 routes.

    That approach should really force teams to drop LB's into the 5 to 10 yard range and keep more than one S back outside of the 10-15 yard range.


    Should alleviate more defenders than we have blockers which will help the OL in pass protection as well as AD finding easier running lanes.

    I am very curious to see what this staff comes out with against Dallas this week. We came out slow against them in the playoffs last season before destroying them ... lets just destroy them from the get go on Sunday.
    See my comments above. We need to force them to use those S's in coverage (they suck) and keep those LB's back off the line.

    Shanc should/could help in that area I think.
    I agree with the Shank comment no doubt.

    What I more or less meant with the "predictable" statement was that early in the Jets game we called short passes that were fairly easy routes to cover because we didn't spice anything up.

    We also were keeping the TE in for a little longer than normal and often looked as though we gave Brett maybe only 4, and sometimes 3, receiving options with only quick reads, not allowing much development.

    I think this hamstrung the offense a lot ... and has done so quite often in the pass, before we decide, shit, open it up ... and then look 10x better.
    Gotcha, I can live with that. Problem is, we weren't seeing that stuff to start. We were seeing alot of 7, 8 and 9 routes when the defense was clearly showing "All Out" blitz looks.

    No way in heck the OL, together with the TE and RB could prevent pressure from getting to the QB to successfully run the route let alone for the QB to get the ball there.

    What should have happened is, when they saw that look, checked into either a run, screen (we did see one but the Noodle elected not to throw to AD) or a few quick throws to the outside.

    Kindof like we saw happen in the second half. That would have opened things up earlier for the other stuff, aka, the spice.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    midgensa wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Purple Floyd wrote:
    Fast forward to this year and I am seeing pretty much the opposite where we are starting slow and it has been taking until the 2nd half to get things going. To me that says for whatever reason they have improved their ability to make adjustments to the defense (I credit this with the addition of Brett, who like him or not is excellent at knowing how to react to changes in defensive formations)but they just don't look like they are ready to play at the beginning of the game. To me it seems that the team is not buying into the gameplan the staff is putting together and they are not focused on the task at hand.
    I am seeing the exact opposit.

    Our biggest problem isn't play calling and the adjustments associated with that aspect of the game, but rather, play selection based on pre-snap reads.

    That, IMHO, can only be attributed to the QB making incorrect reads at the line which can only result from reading a defense wrong.
    I feel like it might be a combination of both ... but I definitely feel like the playcalling has been pretty bad as well. We are far too vanilla for the amount of talent we have ...

    And as you saw in the third-fourth quarters vs. the Jets ... we NEED to open things up. It provides more edges for AD and it provides openings for Harvin (who is still EXTREMELY explosive despite his slow start).

    The pre-snap reads do need to get better no doubt ... but the conservative "I don't want to let Brett fuck-up" approach Chilly has taken early in games this season is going to kill us.

    We made our bed with #4 ... you have to set him loose ... you can't coach to avoid mistakes with Favre, or it just leads to ... well ... mistakes.
    I would almost agree with your comment regarding "Don't want to let the Noodle Fup" but as I watch the packages go in, he has the players on the field to exploit whatever look the defense shows.

    I saw a bunch of 11 sets. That is definately a set that should give defenses fits.

    He can either run, throw short, or even go deep. Problem is, we are doing almost what the defense wants us to at times and that all gets back to the pre-snap read.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    Marrdro wrote:
    Purple Floyd wrote:
    Fast forward to this year and I am seeing pretty much the opposite where we are starting slow and it has been taking until the 2nd half to get things going. To me that says for whatever reason they have improved their ability to make adjustments to the defense (I credit this with the addition of Brett, who like him or not is excellent at knowing how to react to changes in defensive formations)but they just don't look like they are ready to play at the beginning of the game. To me it seems that the team is not buying into the gameplan the staff is putting together and they are not focused on the task at hand.
    I am seeing the exact opposit.

    Our biggest problem isn't play calling and the adjustments associated with that aspect of the game, but rather, play selection based on pre-snap reads.

    That, IMHO, can only be attributed to the QB making incorrect reads at the line which can only result from reading a defense wrong.
    But your vision is tainted by the pure hate for the guy playing QB so when that is factored in the result is that you have everything a$$ backwards :woohoo:

    If you are telling me the guy who just threw his 500th TD and has over 70000 yards passing is suddenly going to be making bad calls(While also implying that a guy who has yet to throw for 300 yards in a game or 2000 in a season will make the right ones) is just too silly to debate. But heck, I'll do it anyway.

    Brett is not making the wrong calls any more than Birk was. But if that is what it takes to get you through the night by all means go ahead and believe it. Then hopefully the tooth fairy will leave you a quarter under the pillow too. :P

  10. #30
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    Re: DAO (Dumb Ass Offense)

    Purple Floyd wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Purple Floyd wrote:
    Fast forward to this year and I am seeing pretty much the opposite where we are starting slow and it has been taking until the 2nd half to get things going. To me that says for whatever reason they have improved their ability to make adjustments to the defense (I credit this with the addition of Brett, who like him or not is excellent at knowing how to react to changes in defensive formations)but they just don't look like they are ready to play at the beginning of the game. To me it seems that the team is not buying into the gameplan the staff is putting together and they are not focused on the task at hand.
    I am seeing the exact opposit.

    Our biggest problem isn't play calling and the adjustments associated with that aspect of the game, but rather, play selection based on pre-snap reads.

    That, IMHO, can only be attributed to the QB making incorrect reads at the line which can only result from reading a defense wrong.
    But your vision is tainted by the pure hate for the guy playing QB so when that is factored in the result is that you have everything a$$ backwards :woohoo:

    If you are telling me the guy who just threw his 500th TD and has over 70000 yards passing is suddenly going to be making bad calls(While also implying that a guy who has yet to throw for 300 yards in a game or 2000 in a season will make the right ones) is just too silly to debate. But heck, I'll do it anyway.

    Brett is not making the wrong calls any more than Birk was. But if that is what it takes to get you through the night by all means go ahead and believe it. Then hopefully the tooth fairy will leave you a quarter under the pillow too. :P
    The ole Hate word again.

    Again, it has nothing to do with my personal opinion.

    It wasn't my personal opinion that saw us throwing into 3-8 looks with 22 and 23 sets sets against the saints just like it wasn't my personal opinion that saw us running 6, 7, 8 and 9 routes with a defense mugging up on the line bringing an all out blitz.

    Like it or not, we are making the wrong calls when it comes to play selection. I kindof think it has something to do with the pre-snap reads and have given the sets that were out there or the possibility that he is making those reads based on what his arm can do as a discussion point.

    All you come back to me with is the "Hate" has clouded my judgement or "Fairydust" as a follow on discussion point.

    Maybe you are pointing to the wrong pillow my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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