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  1. #11
    midgensa's Avatar
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    I personally really like the idea of Harvin getting more carries as I think he is a weapon there also, but it is more of a specialty type offense than a regular halfback.

    He poses serious match-up problems all over the field. And hopefully he can stay healthy and be out there as much as possible.

  2. #12
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    Of course, if Adrian Peterson needs a break then I'm all for placing Harvin in the backfield.

  3. #13
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    I'd be all for it, as long as we used him sparingly (sp?). I feel like he will have a few good runs and the coaches will start putting him in a lot. We can't use him on kickoffs and every offensive play, he does need rests, and thats when we put Greg Lewis in
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  4. #14
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    Harvin needs to put on 15 pounds at least if he's gonna spend a significant amount of time in the back field.
    Skol Vikings! Go Cubs!

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  5. #15
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    Mr Anderson wrote:
    V-Unit wrote:
    It's a cool idea, but I don't think it maximizes our talents in the offense.

    Who are we going to put in the slot on 3rd downs if Harvin is in the backfield? Shank? Jaymar Johnson? Pssh. AD in the backfield and Harvin in the slot is by far a better option.

    Now people will cry, "AD isn't good on 3rd downs!" and I say, even so, that is easily our best 3rd down package. That or we grab a real 3rd down back who can give us the same dynamic that Chester did.

    -V-
    I think that's our best package on every down.

    If defenses are gonna stack the box, at least force them to spread out a little, and if they have the wrong package in, they're forced to cover that slot guy(Harvin) with a linebacker or safety.

    Granted it gives us one less blocker, but which is worse blocking 7 or 8 in the box with 5, or blocking 8 or 9 in the box with 6? And let's be real here, most linebackers and safeties on the backside of a play aren't catching up with Peterson if there is a hole for him to hit. If our O-line steps up as a unit and stays healthy, I never want to see a heavy set. We've got too much speed, too much talent, and too much respect from defenses to run out of TE+FB sets.


    Code:
    BB              Mac Hutch Sully Hererra Load         Rice
                Shank         Favre                 pH
                             Peterson
    or:


    Code:
    BB        Mac Hutch Sully Herrerra Load                  Rice
                        Favre                    pH(both sides)  
                        
                Someone Better than Tahi
    
                       Peterson
    In both cases you have 3 burners on the field, Peterson, Berrian, and Harvin, guys who can flat out run. Move guys around and you have mismatches for certain.

    No more:

    Code:
            Sauce Mac Hutch Sully Herrerra Load             Rice
                            Favre              Shank
    
                             Tahi
    
                           Peterson
    You've got two TEs, a fullback, and a 6'4" receiver who moves well, but creates space with his length, leaping ability, and body control, not his speed. So what do they do? Load up, at least 8 in the box. Even if Kleinsasser or Shiancoe are running routes, it doesn't matter, their coverman, whether it's a backer or safety can be up in the box, putting him closer to runner than he'd normally be.


    Since defenses don't give Peterson any room to move, we need to create some. Not to mention the gadgets we could pull with Harvin and Peterson on running downs.

    There's so much we can do, I'd like to see the Chiller implement some tricky stuff this season.

    Damn good analyses. I agree one of the best ways to beat the "stacking of the box" is to spread out the receivers and force the D to account for other threats besides AD and the run. Very nice job Mr A.
    Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H.L. Mencken

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  6. #16
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    I am going to disagree and say that we would be better off with going to a 2 TE set and replacing Tahi with anyone who is competent. Peterson just needs a hole blown in the line to get him to the second level and nothing does that better than human battering rams. Have Rice and Harvin out wide and we can move the ball on anyone. Stretching out the defense requires our Tackles to cover more ground than the power 2 TE set does.

  7. #17
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    Purple Floyd wrote:
    I am going to disagree and say that we would be better off with going to a 2 TE set and replacing Tahi with anyone who is competent. Peterson just needs a hole blown in the line to get him to the second level and nothing does that better than human battering rams. Have Rice and Harvin out wide and we can move the ball on anyone. Stretching out the defense requires our Tackles to cover more ground than the power 2 TE set does.
    Not when the second level consists of 5 players.

    If we come out with a heavy set on a running down, there is no third level. If we open up a big hole, there are 3 guys there to fill it. With 8 guys in the box there's one for every interior gap.

    Spread out we could see greater yards per carry, on fewer runs, with a greater potential for the home run. Not to mention the beating we can avoid putting on our stud RB. I don't care if Peterson gets less carries if we put him in space when he does get the ball. Meanwhile, I'd like to see the ball in his hands a lot, but if it's in the same predictable sense that it was last season, I do not.

    A cohesive, experienced offensive line(especially if Big Mac and Loadholt drop a few pounds) will be able to handle run blocking duties 5 or (if there's one TE)6 on 7-8 enemies in the box, better than that same line plus a fullback and 2 TEs is going to be dealing with 9 guys in the box.

    If a linebacker or safety is force to cover Percy Harvin in the slot on the backside, he will not be in the picture if Peterson gets the rock. If that same defender is on Shiancoe, Dugan, Kleinsasser, or Tahi, he's right there, ready to crash his gap on run responsibility.

    It doesn't change the offense philosophically, we can run or pass out of these sets. We can run or pass out of heavy sets, all it does is force the defense to line up differently. And Harvin's a tough kid, if a safety or corner is covering him we could run strongside as well.

    We should take advantage of the talent that we have, sitting that talent on the bench is backward IMO.

  8. #18
    midgensa's Avatar
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    Tad7 wrote:
    Harvin needs to put on 15 pounds at least if he's gonna spend a significant amount of time in the back field.
    First ... great job there. I mean, everyone here is clearly talking about him spending "significant time" in the backfield ... except, actually, nobody is talking about "significant" time.

    Oh, and I guess that means that Chris Johnson is too small also? Jerome Harrison clearly should be booted out of the league. I mean he clearly is too small to spend "significant" time in the backfield, I guess if you think that 30+ carries three games in a row is not significant.

    I mean shit ... they clearly show that small guys can't do shit. I guess asking Percy for "significant" time spelling Adrian Peterson is ridiculous.

  9. #19
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    VikingMike wrote:
    Mr Anderson wrote:
    V-Unit wrote:
    It's a cool idea, but I don't think it maximizes our talents in the offense.

    Who are we going to put in the slot on 3rd downs if Harvin is in the backfield? Shank? Jaymar Johnson? Pssh. AD in the backfield and Harvin in the slot is by far a better option.

    Now people will cry, "AD isn't good on 3rd downs!" and I say, even so, that is easily our best 3rd down package. That or we grab a real 3rd down back who can give us the same dynamic that Chester did.

    -V-
    I think that's our best package on every down.

    If defenses are gonna stack the box, at least force them to spread out a little, and if they have the wrong package in, they're forced to cover that slot guy(Harvin) with a linebacker or safety.

    Granted it gives us one less blocker, but which is worse blocking 7 or 8 in the box with 5, or blocking 8 or 9 in the box with 6? And let's be real here, most linebackers and safeties on the backside of a play aren't catching up with Peterson if there is a hole for him to hit. If our O-line steps up as a unit and stays healthy, I never want to see a heavy set. We've got too much speed, too much talent, and too much respect from defenses to run out of TE+FB sets.


    Code:
    BB              Mac Hutch Sully Hererra Load         Rice
                Shank         Favre                 pH
                             Peterson
    or:


    Code:
    BB        Mac Hutch Sully Herrerra Load                  Rice
                        Favre                    pH(both sides)  
                        
                Someone Better than Tahi
    
                       Peterson
    In both cases you have 3 burners on the field, Peterson, Berrian, and Harvin, guys who can flat out run. Move guys around and you have mismatches for certain.

    No more:

    Code:
            Sauce Mac Hutch Sully Herrerra Load             Rice
                            Favre              Shank
    
                             Tahi
    
                           Peterson
    You've got two TEs, a fullback, and a 6'4" receiver who moves well, but creates space with his length, leaping ability, and body control, not his speed. So what do they do? Load up, at least 8 in the box. Even if Kleinsasser or Shiancoe are running routes, it doesn't matter, their coverman, whether it's a backer or safety can be up in the box, putting him closer to runner than he'd normally be.


    Since defenses don't give Peterson any room to move, we need to create some. Not to mention the gadgets we could pull with Harvin and Peterson on running downs.

    There's so much we can do, I'd like to see the Chiller implement some tricky stuff this season.

    Damn good analyses. I agree one of the best ways to beat the "stacking of the box" is to spread out the receivers and force the D to account for other threats besides AD and the run. Very nice job Mr A.
    He always breaks it down good. Now he has taken it to another level and added a new way to depict the "Package".

    Damn him..... :cheer:
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  10. #20
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Daily Mailbag: Harvin as a RB?

    Mr Anderson wrote:
    Code:
    BB         Mac Hutch Sully Hererra Load      Rice
                Shank         Favre              pH
                             Peterson
    I think the example above is what you are gonna see as our base set more than the one we are used to ....ala two TE set....

    Code:
    BB        Mac Hutch Sully Hererra Load      Rice
                Sauce       Favre             Shanc
                           Peterson
    For this discussion however, I would envision the set would look like this with PH in the BF.......

    Code:
    BB        Mac Hutch Sully Hererra Load       Rice
                 WR          Favre              Shank    
                              PH
    I don't think you will see the Vikes trying to stretch the field out of the play, unless of course the OL is dominating and the Noodle has time for it to develop. Rather, I think you would see something like a screen to Shanks side or PH coming out after Rice and Shanc cleared that side out.

    Hell, you could even have the Noodle shift from under C and drop back into the shotgun with PH lined up on his left.

    Regardless, it a lineup like that on a 3rd and short or 1rst and 10 would cause D-coords to shit thier pants.

    Do I run out the nickle? Almost have to. Now they are subject to the run to the TE side. Do I stay with my heavy package? Now I am exposed across the middle by Shanc and PH if he comes out.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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