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  1. #21
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    That may hold true in a bubble enviroment where everything was set in it's way and not influenced by the rest of the team but that is not the case.

    A turnover is not merely a change of possesion. It effects the entire game in many ways. If the other team manages to get the ball away from us and not score, it doesn't make that turnover moot.

    It keeps the defense tired, and it keeps them on their heels because they have no time to speak with each other, speak with the coaches and correct mistakes.

    Other very valuable tidbits of info that were ommitted from his argument?

    His inability to move the chains coupled with his turnovers was a killer. Just look at the play by play:

    1st Quarter: Bucs get the ball our D holds them to a 3 and out.
    DC pass intercepted, the D is on the field again and hold them to 6 plays
    DC fumbles, the D is on the field again and intercepts and its a TD
    Now what happens? D is on the field again and get taken for near 8 minutes 70+ yards and a score on them.

    Sure if you want to try and protect the guy you can ommit a large ammount of information. A large reason they were down in some of those games could be blamed on Culpepper if you wanted to. Then he panics and makes bad decisions.

    His bad habit of holding the ball to long, leading to large sacks for big losses.

    His inabilty to move the chains this year

    His poor passes and consecutive turnovers that kill the spirits of the defense, muffle thier momentum and lead them to exhaustion.

    So I mean yeah if you look at the turnover and the direct result I guess you can justify it to make a point. If you look at the big picture and the overall effect it has on the team it paints a different story. Not to mention if you watched the games there would be no question he was struggling big time.

    I wouldn't trade the guy, but there is a lot more going on in the argument that was shown.

  2. #22
    Big C is offline Coordinator
    Join Date
    Dec 1969

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    To me this whole Culpepper contract thing is a moot point. It's the organization's problem. I don't care if he gets a bigger contract or not. We can give Dante more money, we can not give him more money, or we can trade him and pay a rookie QB even more money.

    I have to sacrifice a lot to justify my NFL Sunday Ticket subscription. For that money, do I want to see Dante Culpepper, Brad Johnson or a rookie QB every Sunday? It's my dime so I'll pay that to see Dante.
    Halo 4. Start another fight.

  3. #23
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    I pay my Sunday Ticket to see my team win.

    If that means Dante stays, he goes, whatever I'm not a fan of his, I'm a fan of the Vikings and whatever it takes to win will keep me paying for my subscriptions. Regardless of who is touching the centers teabag.

  4. #24
    BigMoInAZ's Avatar
    BigMoInAZ is offline Pro-Bowler
    Join Date
    Dec 1969

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    Not sure where you got your play by play, but there was no 8 minute drive by TB to score a TD. In fact the Bucs scored rather quickly on the Vikings in each of their 4 scoring drives.

    1-TB 7 MIN 7, Plays: 8 Yards: 71 Possession: 2:49
    2-TB 14 MIN 7, Plays: 11 Yards: 80 Possession: 6:25
    3-TB 17 MIN 7, Plays: 9 Yards: 46 Possession: 2:43
    4-TB 24 MIN 13, Plays: 3 Yards: 80 Possession: 0:22

    The very next week against the Bengals;
    1-MIN 0 CIN 7, Plays: 2 Yards: 72 Possession: 0:52
    2-MIN 0 CIN 14, Plays: 8 Yards: 48 Possession: 4:48
    3-MIN 0 CIN 17, Plays: 9 Yards: 62 Possession: 5:35
    4-MIN 0 CIN 20, Plays: 4 Yards: 4 Possession: 1:23

    In that game Culpepper had no turnovers until the 2:01 mark of the half trailing 20-0! He would go on to throw 4 second half interceptions attempting to get the team back in the game.

    After that, Peps season was pretty much average, throwing 1 first half interception in Atlanta while trailing 14-0. No score off that. His next turnover was a fumble late in the third quarter which in turn Atlanta used 12 plays to drive 45 yds before scoring a FG to make the score 27-0!

    Now you may have convinced yourself that all those scores were due to Daunte's poor play, but in fact they were not the cause for the entire teams inability to put consistent drives together or from the defense not being able to hold the opposing team out of the endzone. You claim he failed to move the chains, yet each games play by play proves otherwise. Peps misfortune of badly timed turnovers at the end of long drives only exacerbated the teams over all inability to put a quality product on the field in whole or in part. The fact of the matter is no NFL QB would have had much success with this teams level of output in the first 7 games of the season, and further games later in the season starting with the Giants and then against the Steelers and sadly the Ravens proved that the overall teams ability to be offensively productive and CONSISTENT was the root cause of their entire struggle! Again, lets not put all the blame on Daunte's poor play, because there is no argument that he didn't perform up to par, the argument rather is that this team failed to perform to their own level of expectations throughout the course of the season and their final record of 9-7 is the proof of the pudding!

    Lo there, do I see the line of my People...Back to the Beginning.
    Lo do They call to me...They bid me take my Place among the Halls of VALHALLA where t

  5. #25
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    *edit* I have no idea why I keep letting myself get sucked into this tired beaten down subject.

    I was looking at I made a mistake it meant to read 70+ yards in 8 plays. Which was in support of my point that the defense was tired and umprepared due in part to Culpepper's two first quarter turnovers.

    I had a lengthy reply but I omitted it because it is a waste of time. This is not a discussion of facts it boild down to fans ignoring the truth in order to support a person they enjoy watching as a player.

    All I can say is if you care and you want to make your own decision (not that it will effect our team in any way) then look it up for yourself an try to see the big picture.

    In the end our team was not winning and in a dark place. So whatever you guys have to do as fans to make yourselves happy is what you have to do.

    As far as Culpepper goes and the million threads that go along with him, I'm done with it until he puts the uniform on again.

  6. #26
    ultravikingfan's Avatar
    ultravikingfan is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    NE Ohio

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    I could be wrong but didn't cuningham win MVP that year and bring us deep in the playoffs
    Terrell Davis won it.

    Cunningham was chosen by the Maxwell Club of Philadelphia

  7. #27
    collegeguyjeff's Avatar
    collegeguyjeff is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 1969

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    "gregair13" wrote:
    so if daunte goes, we are not going to be winning for a while. our team is very close to being set to win now. daunte can get it done. he will be on the field and good to go.
    im not trying to argue with you im not like that, but however pepper didn't get anything!! done against the eagles in the playoffs so i don't expect him to get us anywhere. he has been here since 99 and he had one good year and one great year. now he's probably not going to be able to play much this year if at all. i don't see a point of us wasting another year with him when we can just get rid of him now.
    I don t buy Wisconsin cheese.

  8. #28
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    I see all the stats and they are great play by play. The bottom line is just because he had "meaningless" INTs or fumbles that doesn't account for the rest of the throws that were behind, in front of, or over heads of the intended receiver. Just face the fact that he had a bad season. No matter how you look at it, it was bad. He did show glimps of greatness but usually when the game was already lost. Most of his points and yardage came in the 4th quarters.

    Unfortunately, none when it counted. I will agree the PIs called against Wiggins were bogus and thye probably could have won that game if it weren't for those calls. The bottom line is when we were driving and only behind by 4 he threw another INT to Kelly against TB. It may have been tipped but it was a horrible pass anyway. Maybe it's caught if it were a good pass.

    IMO there's no such thing as meaningless turnovers. They are all bad. Just like FGs. Regardless of when it is during the game it's not meaningless. It shows lack of focus and concentration mostly.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 1969

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    Cunningham had those #'s in 1998 !!!!! Prior to the 1999 season Cunninham was given the big contract, Johnson was traded to the Redskins , and Jeff George was signed to be the back-up QB who eventually replaced Cunningham. Cunningham was with Dallas or Baltimore in 2000, one year after Johnson was traded. That's the point I was making. And we didn't go deep in the playoffs that year, we were smoked by the Rams in the divisional playoffs.
    I ll be dead and cold before I m green and gold

    Thanks to PPE for sig

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 1969

    Re: Culpepper - PUP list?

    Cunningham was the mvp in 1998, when he was starting after Brad got hurt. He was the back-up that season and didn't have a big $$ contract. He didn't have the big contract until 1999.I think it was for something like 5 years, but by the next season he was gone.Thank God we were able to draft Daunte, or we would of been up shit creek. That is what I'm trying to get across. I would hate to see Daunte be traded in only his 8th season coming up, for Johnson who is going into his 15th season. What if we trade D.C. and Brad decides to hang them up, where do we go then?? Stick with both of them on the roster and we'll be in great shape, trade D.C. , we may be without a proven QB soon enough !!!
    I ll be dead and cold before I m green and gold

    Thanks to PPE for sig

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