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  1. #41
    Ddawg84's Avatar
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    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    "Brax" wrote:
    I will hold my hopes in check until the D proves itself on the field. Remember when the Redskins went out and bought all the high priced D players? They did not gel and played poorly.

    Udeze has not yet proven himself, yes he had a bad shoulder but still not a proven star.
    James had problems in mini camp against bigger O linemen, he won't be playing against college boys.
    Pat W. is older and will not be an every down guy.
    Sharper is older too and his numbers have been dropping off.
    Cowart has not impressed the coaching staff at mini camp.
    Harris is yet to live up to his draft position.

    On the plus side, we have good depth. We can feild quality players in the nickel or dime. Last year our weak depth killed us. Barring any injuries we should be able to field a very good D.

    All I am saying is let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Everyone one is pumping up this D so much it could be quite a let down. Let's just say we SHOULD be improved this year and leave it at that.
    I am not gunna lie... I am pretty much sick of this talk about Darren Shaper being to old, and his numbers have been droping off lately. My arguement to that statement is that if Darren is OLD then Randy Moss is OLD... so it is good that he is gone then, cause they are basically the same age and it is better to trade a player a year early than a year late...And the reason Darren's numbers have droped off was due to his injury last season, which I may add he tried to suck it up and play hurt with, especially in big games!!! That is more than you can say for a lot of players look at John Abraham for the jets... they were begging him to play in the play-offs and he would not risk further hurting himself due to injury happened right before his last year of his contract was up!!! hmmmmm... kinda makes ya wonder!!! The fact of the matter is we added a huge veteran who is a great leader to have on any team... and we defeniately need it on the defense side of the ball... and it one less player we have to deal with when we play the Packers! Shaper always managed to tourch us and now he gets to do it to FARVE AND ALL THE REST OF OUR DIVISIONS QB'S!!!!! God it is great to be a bleed purple!!!!!!!!!

  2. #42
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    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    I dont care how or defense creates plays the only thing I know is that we will be a bit better in most aspects than we were last year.

  3. #43
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    "muchluv4smoot" wrote:
    "Del Rio" wrote:
    I see us getting plenty more sacks this year

    Johnstone had 11 sacks playing DE. Erasmus James will not meet that number IMO. The only way I see more sacks this year is from LB play. It will have nothing to do with our line.

    Udeze made a ton of mistakes last year I remember Tice talking about it to a limited degree. He is a rookie. James will make the same mistakes I am sure. It really doesn't matter sacks are just eye candy. The real work is done under the radar. Qb pressure isn't always the call so unless we know the play and the assignments it is hard to tell who did a poor job.

    I tell you what though our D line last year was one of the best. The pressure was there all game on a consistent basis. Go back read press conferences. A great D-line playing with a disorganized, misplaced, young, backfield is not going to reach it's potential. I am a little upset I really liked the way Spencer Johnson played. I hope he gets to see a lot of time while Pat is catching a break (probably every 2 plays)

    As far as sacks being up I think if you changed personel on the line alone. No there would be no change. Lance Johnstone is a beast if you go on sacks alone he is your man. We don't NEED more sacks anyway. The real problem seemed to be containing the run and maintaining assignments. Udeze was having trouble doing this (per Tice) I am sure he will be more comfortable this year.

    Now you have another rook on the other side one that is prone to pass rush. I imagine he will be getting suckered inside quite a bit. But this year we have a better backfield so we can take those risks I suppose. Just depends what type of D they are running I guess.


    Johnstone had 11 sacks and forced 5 fumbles last year.


    No mention of better Cb's and better coverage, meaning more time for our D-line to get to the QB? Or how about pat williams taking blockers away from kevin williams on 1st and 2nd down?

    Udeze, johnstone, and mixon had 18.5 sacks total last year. You can't honestly say that james, a healthy udeze at LDE and johnstone off the bench won't be able to get more than 18.5 sacks this year? Especially with our DB's this year.

    Also our DB's will make it easier for cotrell to blitz some LB's and that could lead to more sacks this year too, some from the blitzing LB's but also some from D-lineman who get free.

    I would bet a ton of money our D line gets more sacks this year, easily.
    I'm skeptical about the defensive plan. If Cottrell plays conservative like he did last year then no. They will not be able to match that sack number. And I highly doubt Pat Williams will draw any double teams over Kevin Williams. Maybe on running downs. And as the game progressess he is going to become less and less a factor. Jerry Ball, loved the guy one of my favorites same boat there is no need to double team him. Scrape him with a rb he is not going to get to the QB unless it is a busted play.

    It's nothing worth arguing about. I am not convinced our new guys are all that much better (except at LB) It's a matter of opinion nothing more. If they are placed in the same situation the outcome will be the same. No ersamus james isn't going to get 10+ sacks.


    Fat Pat 2.5 sacks last year Hovan style. He isn't worth doubling on pass plays. He will have no effect on Kevin Williams coverage. Just like all gap fillers his size. They play the run and take up space. Collapse a pocket every now and then.

    Team is definately better on paper. Unless he ups his blitzes I do not see the sack #'s rising. But like I said before sacks are not always a good indicator of a solid defense.

    Can't wait to see how it unfolds.

  4. #44
    BBQ Platypus's Avatar
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    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    I think that the truth is somewhere in between. The Vikings will get more sacks, but not a whole lot more. I think that we get at least 2, but not more than 5 more sacks. Our personnel has improved at D-line and DB, and we should get some more coverage sacks. But it won't be too dramatic. However, making a pass rush a little bit better can make a HUGE difference.


    "This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff."

  5. #45
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    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    I'm skeptical about the defensive plan. If Cottrell plays conservative like he did last year then no.......Can't wait to see how it unfolds.
    Absolutely...they cannot be conservative in their play. On defense, you MUST mix it up. The really great defenses of the past (and present) either had awesome LB's (Steelers had Ham, Lambert, Russell; Bears Singletary, Wilson, Marshall; Ravens Lewis, et al) or they showed different looks to confuse the offense (Pats, 49ers). Our LB's are not awesome, so we will have to throw in different looks on the attack.

    I agree with you...everyone love sacks, but they are really just another statistic. What's critical is that we force the other team into situations where their QB throws an interception or a they run for little or no gain...and if the situation comes up for a sack, we graciously take it.

    As far as Sharper...we need safeties who are going to hit hard and make receivers think twice about crossing patterns (Lott, Lynch, etc.). I think he can help with this. Let's really hope all of the puzzle pieces can come together into a beautiful mosaic we'll all be proud of.
    Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H.L. Mencken

    Come from the land of the ice and snow...

  6. #46
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    "VikingMike" wrote:
    I'm skeptical about the defensive plan. If Cottrell plays conservative like he did last year then no.......Can't wait to see how it unfolds.
    Absolutely...they cannot be conservative in their play. On defense, you MUST mix it up. The really great defenses of the past (and present) either had awesome LB's (Steelers had Ham, Lambert, Russell; Bears Singletary, Wilson, Marshall; Ravens Lewis, et al) or they showed different looks to confuse the offense (Pats, 49ers). Our LB's are not awesome, so we will have to throw in different looks on the attack.

    I agree with you...everyone love sacks, but they are really just another statistic. What's critical is that we force the other team into situations where their QB throws an interception or a they run for little or no gain...and if the situation comes up for a sack, we graciously take it.

    As far as Sharper...we need safeties who are going to hit hard and make receivers think twice about crossing patterns (Lott, Lynch, etc.). I think he can help with this. Let's really hope all of the puzzle pieces can come together into a beautiful mosaic we'll all be proud of.
    I couldn't agree with you more. :grin:

  7. #47
    muchluv4smoot's Avatar
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    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    I don't get why people think that Ted was wrong for being conservative last year. There was a reason why he was conservative. We had ralph brown and terrance shaw as our CB's half the time, plus our safeties were covering like crap. Throw in the fact that our Lb's didn't know what the heck they were doing out there, and there was no way he could be aggressive like we wanted him to be. We were stuck playing bend but don't break D, because of our CB injuries and bad play from the rest of our D. It had nothing to do with what cotrell wanted to do, but what he had to do.

    Provided smoot and winfield stay healthy this year, ted will definitely be able to blitz more, with brian williams and kenny irvin as our nickel and dime CB's. That is some serious talent at #3 and #4 CB's. Provided our LB's play better, as I expect them too, why wouldn't we blitz more this year? I don't see us having to as much though, with the addition of james and with udeze getting his shoulder 100%. Those 2 are both very capable(not saying they will get 10+ sacks) of double digit sacks, as is Kevin williams. Then you add johnstone, who had 11 sacks in limited time last year. Johnstone will play about as much as he did last year, maybe a little less, so I don't see him dropping down too far in sacks, maybe around 7 or 8.

    Pat williams will get the same amount as hovan did for us, kevin williams will get around the same as he did last year, udeze will get way more than mixon's 2.5 sacks, james will get more than udeze's 5 from last year, and Johnstone will get a few less than his 11 last year. I still say we easily get more sacks from our D-line and I think you are underestimating both james and how good udeze is with a strong shoulder(I am assuming that his shoulder is 100% for the season of coarse).

    We shall see I guess, but I am right and you are clearly wrong. LOL :grin:

  8. #48
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    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    I agree muchluv we had to be conservative because we were not smart enough to line up properly and execute a complex defense. Defense is a game of pursuit angles and player alignment and when you cannot line up in the right spot you are much easier to block and your pursuit angles are bad and the guy runs by you. That is why Russell and Henderson, as well as Dontarrious will not start this year because they cannot line up in the right spot.
    "Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn t work hard."

  9. #49
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Cottrell Exited about D :)

    That theory doesn't hold water.

    He was conservative in New York that is why he was fired. He was conservative even during the Dallas game.

    I'm done arguing because
    A)I don't care
    B)We will see soon enough.

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