Thread: Comparison: 1st full year @ QB: Tarvaris vs. Daunte

Passing stats in first year as the starting QB, Daunte Culpepper vs. Tarvaris Jackson:

Daunte Culpepper (year = 2000):
Passing Yards = 3,937
TDs passing = 33
INTs = 16
QB Rating = 98.0
Rushing TDs = 7

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Tarvaris Jackson (year = 2007):
Passing yards = 1,911
TDs passing = 9
INTs = 12
QB Rating = 70.8
Rushing TDs = 3

Note: Tarvaris only played 12 games in his first season, whereas Daunte played all 16. (Daunte also had better receivers).
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The thing that really sticks out for me is the passer rating and the ratio of TDs to INTs.

Not sure what you hope to accomplish with this comparison, but you left off this rather important stat, especially if you are making it a point to highlight the TD vs turnover ratio:

Daunte Culpepper (year = 2000)
Fumbles / Lost = 11 / 6

Tarvaris Jackson (year = 2007)
Fumbles / Lost = 5 / 3

BTW, here is Daunte's second year...

Daunte Culpepper (year = 2001)
Passing Yards = 2,612
TDs passing = 14
INTs = 13
QB Rating = 83.3
Rushing TDs = 5
Fumbles / Lost = 16 / 7

To me fumbles lost is not an important stat for a QB. There are just too many factors (did someone blow a block and thus the QB got blindsided ? i.e. it was not his fault, etc..

What was the field position (a fumble inside their red zone when we are up by 20 is not so bad, etc...) ?

The TD to INT ratio for Daunte was always (very) positive, except for one year with us. I think a QB rating of 70.8 is o.k., but there is nothing in T-Jacks's stats that to me indicate that he is a starter in the NFL.

To me, a QB rating under 75 and more INTs than TDs should set off red lights...

this may come back to haunt me!!.. but I'll take Tarvaris over Daunte any day.... from what i've seen.. I like TJ's command of the offense in pressure situations and in the 2 minute drill...not to mention his ability to bring us back from a deficit and score points in the 4th quarter when pts are the most important..

I think he has a lot of moxie, especially with his running ability, I think he's more of a winner.. Additionally, when he does get sacked, he atleast doesn't loose a lot of yards...

I hope he improves to fulfill his potential!!

"StillPurple" wrote:

To me fumbles lost is not an important stat for a QB. There are just too many factors (did someone blow a block and thus the QB got blindsided ? i.e. it was not his fault, etc..

What was the field position (a fumble inside their red zone when we are up by 20 is not so bad, etc...) ?

The TD to INT ratio for Daunte was always (very) positive, except for one year with us. I think a QB rating of 70.8 is o.k., but there is nothing in T-Jacks's stats that to me indicate that he is a starter in the NFL.

To me, a QB rating under 75 and more INTs than TDs should set off red lights...

True you could twist the stats any of a number of ways. TJack lost his fumbles 60% of the time comapired to Daunte's 54% I guess I am missing why we are compairing Daunte first year as a starter compaired to TJacks. What are we looking to prove
???

Well, I like a couple of things about Tarvaris' play:

- Strong arm, and can throw deep even on the run (many QBs can't do that)
- He never complains and is stoic on the field (so are most QBs)
- He averages I think 11 yards per run !!

But I have listed the things I don't like, and they can be summed up by: lack of poise, nervousness, and accuracy (even in short and medium routes).

I hope Tarvaris can relax and just play with more poise, and not run at the first sign that the pocket collapses.

BTW, Gus Frerotte's career QB rating is 74, and he has thrown more TDs than INTs. But Gus is not a starter in the NFL.

"StillPurple" wrote:

To me fumbles lost is not an important stat for a QB. There are just too many factors (did someone blow a block and thus the QB got blindsided ? i.e. it was not his fault, etc..

What was the field position (a fumble inside their red zone when we are up by 20 is not so bad, etc...) ?

The TD to INT ratio for Daunte was always (very) positive, except for one year with us. I think a QB rating of 70.8 is o.k., but there is nothing in T-Jacks's stats that to me indicate that he is a starter in the NFL.

To me, a QB rating under 75 and more INTs than TDs should set off red lights...

The same can be said of INTs.
Look at the game highlights of the Chicago @ Minny MNF game last year.
TJack's first INT is one that Fergie didn't pull in, and it bounced right into Urlacher's hands.
Fumbles are a part of the game, and when you have a QB who was as prone to fumbles as Culpepper was, ignoring it is skewing the stats.

You can't pick and choose what stats you want to look at when comparing players in the same position.
You need to look at the whole picture.
You also didn't show the numbers of attempts, number of completions, etc.
These are all very important stats.

Well, I don't think fumbles are the same as INTs. How many times did Elway fumble ? Who cares ?

On the other hand, give Tarvaris Moss, Chris Carter, and Robert Smith, and he probably might do a lot better.

I just wanted to start a discussion on this. I guess my point is, a relatively inexperienced QB can do very well in his first real year starting as a QB, and throwing more INTs than TDs is not really very good.

Let's also mention that Tarvaris is in a West Coast offense, which emphasizes short passes, whereas Daunte was throwing deep a lot.

So you are comparing a first round pick playing with two Hall of Fame WRs in a pass happy offense to a div II QB playing in a ground based offense who had Bobby Wade as his best receiver... How is that in any way applicable?

"StillPurple" wrote:

Well, I don't think fumbles are the same as INTs. How many times did Elway fumble ? Who cares ?

On the other hand, give Tarvaris Moss, Chris Carter, and Robert Smith, and he probably might do a lot better.

I just wanted to start a discussion on this. I guess my point is, a relatively inexperienced QB can do very well in his first real year starting as a QB, and throwing more INTs than TDs is not really very good.

Let's also mention that Tarvaris is in a West Coast offense, which emphasizes short passes, whereas Daunte was throwing deep a lot.

Nobody said that they were the same as INTs, but they are still important.
Elway, for the record, fumbles 76 times in his last 8 years starting for the Broncos (no stats before that).
Of them he lost 34.
He played in 118 games in that stretch.
That is an average of 1 fumble every 1.55 games, and 1 fumble lost every 3.47 games.

Culpepper, on the other hand, played in 92 games in his career.
He fumbled 93 times, losing 38.
That means he fumbles a little more than once a game, and has 1 fumble lost for every 2.42 games.
Pretty big difference between Elway and Culpepper.