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  1. #11
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good team

    I am usually not this pessimistic, but I truly believe we lost 3 games to 3 mediocre teams. An average team goes at least 2-2 there.

    Hopefully though, the close losses will be a motivator for the rest of the season.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  2. #12
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good tea

    We are very close to being a good team, but unfortunately the things we need to make us a good team are not easy to come by. Most of all, we need a solid (if not good) quarterback. Unfortunately, the odds are not on our side for Tarvaris panning out and being the guy to take us to the next level.

  3. #13
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good tea

    "Ltrey" wrote:
    We are very close to being a good team, but unfortunately the things we need to make us a good team are not easy to come by. Most of all, we need a solid (if not good) quarterback. Unfortunately, the odds are not on our side for Tarvaris panning out and being the guy to take us to the next level.

    ??? How can you say that after just 4 games?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #14
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good tea

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    We are very close to being a good team, but unfortunately the things we need to make us a good team are not easy to come by. Most of all, we need a solid (if not good) quarterback. Unfortunately, the odds are not on our side for Tarvaris panning out and being the guy to take us to the next level.

    ??? How can you say that after just 4 games?
    I dunno, maybe because he has sucked in those 4 games. Decent at best in 1 out of the 4.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  5. #15
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good tea

    "V" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    We are very close to being a good team, but unfortunately the things we need to make us a good team are not easy to come by. Most of all, we need a solid (if not good) quarterback. Unfortunately, the odds are not on our side for Tarvaris panning out and being the guy to take us to the next level.

    ??? How can you say that after just 4 games?
    I dunno, maybe because he has sucked in those 4 games. Decent at best in 1 out of the 4.
    LMAO! It's 4 games. You people act like every great QB that ever played the game never started out with loses & started winning right out of the shoot.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #16
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good tea

    It's not about him winning or losing right out of the shoot or whether he makes mistakes, but what he looks like when he is not making the mistakes.

    When he throws the ball deep, is it on target and do the passes hit the WR in stride or is he more often off the mark and putting the ball in the wrong place?

    On the short timing routes is he anticipating where the receivers are going to be and putting the ball in that location or is he staring them down? Are the passes accurate?

    When the line breaks down is he sliding around in the pocket to buy time for the wr's to get open and is moving away from the rush in a way that allows the line to push the defender past him or does he move into the pressure which causes a sack and kills the play?

    How is the touch on his screen passes? Does he handle the fake well and stick the ball in there away from the defender?


    There have been young QB's like Manning,Farve and Aikman and others who frequently are mentioned in the same breath as TJ who did struggle at times when they were young, but every one of them displayed flashes of their future greatness and could execute the plays as needed even in their youth. They did read a defense wrong on occasion that led to a turnover of stalled drive but they could make the throws more times than not and they were able to sustain drives and score touchdowns. Sometimes not as many as their defense gave up.

    Those are the things I will be looking for as he goes through the year.

  7. #17
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good team

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "In separate conversations, my dad, sister, and brother told me I was lucky to be at the game so I didn't have to listen to the announcers."

    Man, that MUST HAVE been torture!


    I saw Dan Marino play live in 1994. He torched the Vikes for 431 yards in a 38-35 Viking victory. For what it's worth--nothing--I was more impressed seeing Marino live than I was seeing Favre live.

    If Marino had Reggie White (the REAL MVP of the Pukers' SB win) on his team, he would have probably won at least TWO Super Bowls!
    I remember that game.
    The Vikes were up 28-0.
    Dolphins came bck to tie it before the Vikes eventually won.

  8. #18
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good team

    The odds may not be good that Tavaris, a project pick from a Division 2 college, thrust one year too soon into the starting QB role, will pan out; however, he hasn't reached the point of being a wash out. The situation that we ( and he) are in is not ideal for QB development, but it is what it is. A championship QB needs to go through SOME adversity, IMO, and T-Jack has, and will continue to have THAT opportunity this season. I'm forced to remove my purple shades on this season. I was hoping to be 3-1 or 4-0 at this point, with an overall thought we could finish 9-7, maybe 10-6. That record seems unlikely now. Since my miracle season appears to be dust, I now am hoping to see a strong finish. Momentum for the team, and growth for the QB, going into 2008. My hopes for making the playoffs are reduced to hopes that the 2007 laboratory season will produce a stronger, more confident T-Jack going forward. He seems to have the tools. I am hoping he has the heart and will to overcome a bad start. Can he maintain his will to compete? Can he avoid having his psyche ripped by this moment's failure, learn from failure, and show progress by the end of the season? I am hoping he can learn enough to give me more hope for next year. Meanwhile, I still have hope (though, not much confidence) that THIS season can be redeemed. It is still early. Hey, I think the Falcons have the most tanked season; but they still managed a victory. This team may not have the total package; but, it remains to be seen if it has the heart to compete to the end. I want to see the heart of this team, and its QB, win a few this year.

  9. #19
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good team

    The sad part about this to me is that we actually started rebuilding this team around Culpepper a few years back....The Packers started rebuilding around the same time as we did or just after us...but they seem to have overtaken us in that area at 4-0.

    Remember when Daunte was gonna be the "show" in Minnesota....a few injuries later...one severe...and it's off to Miami and now he's lighting things up for Al Davis in the Black Hole. Not saying we shouldn't have let him go....but thinking about our current QB problems in a very similar light.

    Seems so many of our so called "Has Been"s go on to greatness or at least do better when they leave us.....Moss is another fine example.
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  10. #20
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    Re: Coming off the ledge: Vikings really not that far away from being a good tea

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    It's not about him winning or losing right out of the shoot or whether he makes mistakes, but what he looks like when he is not making the mistakes.

    When he throws the ball deep, is it on target and do the passes hit the WR in stride or is he more often off the mark and putting the ball in the wrong place?

    On the short timing routes is he anticipating where the receivers are going to be and putting the ball in that location or is he staring them down? Are the passes accurate?

    When the line breaks down is he sliding around in the pocket to buy time for the wr's to get open and is moving away from the rush in a way that allows the line to push the defender past him or does he move into the pressure which causes a sack and kills the play?

    How is the touch on his screen passes? Does he handle the fake well and stick the ball in there away from the defender?


    There have been young QB's like Manning,Farve and Aikman and others who frequently are mentioned in the same breath as TJ who did struggle at times when they were young, but every one of them displayed flashes of their future greatness and could execute the plays as needed even in their youth. They did read a defense wrong on occasion that led to a turnover of stalled drive but they could make the throws more times than not and they were able to sustain drives and score touchdowns. Sometimes not as many as their defense gave up.

    Those are the things I will be looking for as he goes through the year.
    You make great posts.

    Childress/Bevel can help TJ out with the passing game.

    Throw long to Williamson and he might catch it if it is very accurate. Throw long to Rice and he will go get it if it is anywhere near him.
    Long passes are far more likely to be inaccurate so,who do you chose to throw long to when you call that play?

    Williamson does pretty good at catching the slant over the middle and, a pass over the middle is a much easier play for TJ to throw accurately.

    Certain plays for certain players. What are they good at? That's coaching.

    AD should be in on every third and long. Not to block. But as a check down receiver. He is the one who could get the first down IF the qb has to check down. Not Moore and not Taylor. Split him out or put him in motion. Make the defense adjust to the greatest threat we have when it's third down.That may also open up the downfield passing game some.

    This may already be happening but, every veteran player on offense that recognizes something the defense is doing should tell TJ what they see. Not tell him what to do. Just help him learn.

    Start learning the art of faking the defense out by looking off receivers and drawing people of side with the snap count cadence.

    All takes time and experience. But I have a feeling if TJ learns to relax and play football, things will get much better.


    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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