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  1. #1
    ndnorseman is offline Pro-Bowler
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    The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    First off, I know there's already a Leslie Frazier thread (or two or three), but I wanted to start a thread that encompasses ALL of the Vikings coaches and get a discussion going as to who you all think should stay on the staff after this season.

    And yes, I realize that if someone from outside gets brought in, then this entire thread becomes a moot point, BUT if Frazier stays, he's likely to keep some guys on, and perhaps promote some, as well.

    Let's start at the top...

    Leslie Frazier - Interim HC (prev. Def. Coordinator)

    I can empathize with ANY assistant coach who gets thrust into a head-coaching position before a season is finished, and I don't think it's entirely fair to judge their overall performance, based on the limited number of games they have in their "debut". There are MANY responsibilities and decisions a Head Coach makes before a season even begins, so judging an interim coach too harshly for not coaching their team to a lot of wins is akin to bitching a new driver out for not placing in a race with a broken-down car. Remember, for there to even BE an interim HC means that things were already falling apart.

    Leslie SEEMS competent, and I'm willing to wait and see how he does when:

    a) he has his OWN Draft to manage
    b) he has his OWN choice of assistant coaches
    c) he has an entire offseason (or two) to prepare
    d) the whole Favre debacle FINALLY goes away
    e) he has a full 16 (or 18) game schedule
    f) the stadium isn't falling down around him

    IMO, those are all major contributors the success/failure of a new HC.

    The rest of them (I'm not doing all the assistants or "quality control" guys, as they'll likely just stay on, unless the position sucks SO bad everyone associated with it should get shit-canned *ahem-Oline*:

    [strike]Darrell Bevell: Offensive Coordinator[/strike] - GONE - I'm tired of vanilla. It would be nice to have an OC with more imagination than a cardboard box.

    [strike]Eric Bieniemy: Running Backs[/strike] - GONE - He's going off to greener pastures and a promotion in Colorado. With Peterson having a fumble-FREE season after having the MOST fumbles last season, I hope his head doesn't get messed with by some new guy. Ryan Ficken, an assistant to Bieniemy, might be a suitable replacement.

    [strike]Kevin Rogers: Quarterbacks[/strike] - GONE - Maybe the LEAST mentioned reason why Tarvaris Jackson still seems as lost now, as when he first stepped on the field. Do we really want the same coach for Webb or any other rookie coming in?

    George Stewart: Wide Receivers - KEEP - Take away the Chinese Fire Drill situation at QB that we had this year, and I think our WRs would ALL be doing better. Haven't had any serious complaints at this position, other than the somewhat disappointing lack of YAC...but that could fall into a debate of whether that's on them, or the QB (ie. hanging the WRs out to dry, forcing them to come back for the ball, etc.).

    Jimmie Johnson: Tight Ends - KEEP - I think we've had some pretty good production out of our TEs, and coaching plays a big part. It helps that Johnson was a former NFL player.

    [strike]Pat Morris: Offensive Line[/strike] - GONE, GONE, GONE! - I just think the line is suffering from a lack of focus and discipline, hence all the stupid penalties and giving up before the play is entirely done. Sorry, Pat...that falls on YOUR shoulders. Buh-bye.

    Karl Dunbar: [strike]Defensive Coordinator[/strike] (prev. D-Line) - KEPT, but back on the D-line. He would have to come up with something to keep the Eagles and Lions to under a combined 20 points to make up for that embarrassment against the Bears to consider keeping him as DC, and I just don't see that happening.

    Fred Pagac: Linebackers - KEEP - Probably the LEAST complained-about position on either side of the ball. Greenway and Henderson have THRIVED under this guy. Could be in line for a promotion.

    [strike]Joe Woods: Defensive Backs[/strike] - GONE, GONE, GONE! - I miss the days when we, as fans, didn't have to worry about our DB unit making sub-par QBs look like ProBowlers...

    [strike]Brian Murphy: Special teams coordinator[/strike] - GONE - How many times have teams had HUGE runbacks on us and only had a short field to work with as a result? How many times have the Vikes blocked FGs, KRs, or Punts? How many times have the Vikings attempted a FAKE FG or punt? This guy's coaching is as vanilla as Bevell's, if not more.



    Agree/disagree?

  2. #2
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    Fred Pagac: Linebackers - KEEP .......Shitcan the rest.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #3
    AngloVike's Avatar
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    First off, I know there's already a Leslie Frazier thread (or two or three), but I wanted to start a thread that encompasses ALL of the Vikings coaches and get a discussion going as to who you all think should stay on the staff after this season.

    And yes, I realize that if someone from outside gets brought in, then this entire thread becomes a moot point, BUT if Frazier stays, he's likely to keep some guys on, and perhaps promote some, as well.
    I'd agree with most of the comments you make with the exception of George Stewart (WR). Personally I don't think he has done anything to improve the WR's in terms of coaching and that any gains made by them is due to efforts on their part ( such as Rice with his offseason work last year prior to the 2009 season ) and natural ability ( Harvin ). Yes I'll also make allowances for the QBs they have had to deal with ( see numerous other threads ) but I just don't see what he's done to warrant being kept on.

    If we do get a new HC instead of keeping Frazier, then it be interesting to see how many people they feel are needed on the staff. Somehow I expect the number of coaching staff to drop down a lot - I mean what the hell is a quality control guy?? does he have a checklist to go through for each player to make sure they have everything in place before taking to the field and then stamp their arse with a tick?

    QC Coach - next !
    McKinnie - yes coach
    QC Coach - helmet?
    McKinnie - yes coach
    QC Coach - shoulder pads?
    McKinnie - yes coach
    QC Coach - mouthguard?
    McKinnie - yes coach
    QC Coach - gloves?
    McKinnie - urmmm.. no coach
    QC Coach - now Bryant it's cold out there today and besides how many times how we told you about wearing them? If you don't then you'll just end up rubbing the skin off your knuckles when you walk on and off the field.
    McKinnie - sorry coach, won't happen again
    QC Coach - ok now go get them and report back to show me. Then you can go and play ....
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


  4. #4
    Minniman's Avatar
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    Quote Originally Posted by "AngloVike" #1085479
    First off, I know there's already a Leslie Frazier thread (or two or three), but I wanted to start a thread that encompasses ALL of the Vikings coaches and get a discussion going as to who you all think should stay on the staff after this season.

    And yes, I realize that if someone from outside gets brought in, then this entire thread becomes a moot point, BUT if Frazier stays, he's likely to keep some guys on, and perhaps promote some, as well.
    I'd agree with most of the comments you make with the exception of George Stewart (WR). Personally I don't think he has done anything to improve the WR's in terms of coaching and that any gains made by them is due to efforts on their part ( such as Rice with his offseason work last year prior to the 2009 season ) and natural ability ( Harvin ). Yes I'll also make allowances for the QBs they have had to deal with ( see numerous other threads ) but I just don't see what he's done to warrant being kept on.

    If we do get a new HC instead of keeping Frazier, then it be interesting to see how many people they feel are needed on the staff. Somehow I expect the number of coaching staff to drop down a lot - I mean what the hell is a quality control guy?? does he have a checklist to go through for each player to make sure they have everything in place before taking to the field and then stamp their arse with a tick?
    Where have you been for the last two decades? The quality control coach is the guy who puts all the notes, reports, and playbook together for the offensive and defensive coordinators and the head coach. He has a big impact on the gameplan.

    When Randy Moss was praising the Patriots for their gameplan information, he was praising their quality control coaches and criticizing the same for the Vikings. Considering a commander must have good information before the battle, and the Vikings often looked like they do not have that good information, I would say that the Vikings quality control guys should get canned.

    Here is a good article about quality control coaches:

    N.F.L. Quality-Control Coaches Learn It All (N.Y. Times)

  5. #5
    AngloVike's Avatar
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Minniman" #1085485
    Quote Originally Posted by "AngloVike" #1085479
    First off, I know there's already a Leslie Frazier thread (or two or three), but I wanted to start a thread that encompasses ALL of the Vikings coaches and get a discussion going as to who you all think should stay on the staff after this season.

    And yes, I realize that if someone from outside gets brought in, then this entire thread becomes a moot point, BUT if Frazier stays, he's likely to keep some guys on, and perhaps promote some, as well.
    I'd agree with most of the comments you make with the exception of George Stewart (WR). Personally I don't think he has done anything to improve the WR's in terms of coaching and that any gains made by them is due to efforts on their part ( such as Rice with his offseason work last year prior to the 2009 season ) and natural ability ( Harvin ). Yes I'll also make allowances for the QBs they have had to deal with ( see numerous other threads ) but I just don't see what he's done to warrant being kept on.

    If we do get a new HC instead of keeping Frazier, then it be interesting to see how many people they feel are needed on the staff. Somehow I expect the number of coaching staff to drop down a lot - I mean what the hell is a quality control guy?? does he have a checklist to go through for each player to make sure they have everything in place before taking to the field and then stamp their arse with a tick?
    Where have you been for the last two decades? The quality control coach is the guy who puts all the notes, reports, and playbook together for the offensive and defensive coordinators and the head coach. He has a big impact on the gameplan.

    When Randy Moss was praising the Patriots for their gameplan information, he was praising their quality control coaches and criticizing the same for the Vikings. Considering a commander must have good information before the battle, and the Vikings often looked like they do not have that good information, I would say that the Vikings quality control guys should get canned.

    Here is a good article about quality control coaches:

    N.F.L. Quality-Control Coaches Learn It All (N.Y. Times)
    well thanks for clarifying that, though its not what I'd expect from a title like quality control - obviously showing my age :laugh:

    Update -good article Minniman though I still think the titles are wrong- that amount of multitasking sounds more like an administrator/secretary
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


  6. #6
    Tad7's Avatar
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    Frazier can go, Bevell can go, Bienemy is going and that's fine, Kevin Rogers can go, Murphy can go, O-Line guy can go.....besides that everything looks ok :side:
    Skol Vikings! Go Cubs!

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  7. #7
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    Dump 'em all and start over.

  8. #8
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085467
    Fred Pagac: Linebackers - KEEP .......Shitcan the rest.
    What's this? I agree with you...kinda.

    I say dump them all.

  9. #9
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    Quote Originally Posted by "ultravikingfan" #1085511
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085467
    Fred Pagac: Linebackers - KEEP .......Shitcan the rest.
    What's this? I agree with you...kinda.

    I say dump them all.
    I would like to see what he would/could do over a full year. We are finally seeing a bit of production out of the DL and for once we saw them flooding the gaps against the Bores.

    Another thing I like is EJ, Chad and Ben don't show blitz as soon as they were doing under Leslie.

    Haven't had time cause I've been watching Guion (the DL) but I am gonna try to see this week if the CB's are pressing more and more. I think my answer will be yes.

    By the way. How boring would it be if we all agreed on the same discussions? Threads would be pretty small my friend. :laugh:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #10
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: The coaches.....who should be kept/dumped?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Minniman" #1085485
    Where have you been for the last two decades? The quality control coach is the guy who puts all the notes, reports, and playbook together for the offensive and defensive coordinators and the head coach. He has a big impact on the gameplan.

    When Randy Moss was praising the Patriots for their gameplan information, he was praising their quality control coaches and criticizing the same for the Vikings. Considering a commander must have good information before the battle, and the Vikings often looked like they do not have that good information, I would say that the Vikings quality control guys should get canned.

    Here is a good article about quality control coaches:

    N.F.L. Quality-Control Coaches Learn It All (N.Y. Times)
    What a great read.

    Something else they do, during games they sit in the box and chart packages sent in by the opposing teams offense/defense and then chart that on a board for the coaching staff to digest/make adjustments off of between the halves.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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