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  1. #21
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    What a great idea for a thread.

    I was a bit upset they didn't take a kid like Skelton or Robinson (or even Snead Kevoncox), but the truth of the matter is, this class is one of the weakest ever when it comes to QB talent. Hell, the number 2 QB on the board went after a kid that has to completely learn how to play QB for cripes sake.

    Anyway, what does this all mean? As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......

    I think this draft said 3 things....

    a. None of the QB's were worth wasting a pick on. Indication for this is that this staff has drafted a QB in every draft since they've been here. This year they didn't.

    By the way, don't believe for one second that Webb is a QB project. He was brought in to play WR, not QB. The QB project from this class will be RJ Archer and Ryan Perriloux (if he gets signed).

    b. They are comfortable with TJ as not only the backup but as the future.

    Now this is were the sticky meets the rub with most fans. With all of our wisdom, we have deemed that this kid doesn't have a future in this league and can't figure out why a real coaching staff believes otherwise.

    Sure the Chiller said he was ready a few times, but what do you expect out of your head coach. Do you expect him to say, he isn't ready, but we don't have anything better so we are gonna run him out there anyways? Gimme a break. That ship has sailed and didn't float either. He didn't throw the kid under the bus.

    c. They believe that Dnabb is gonna be a Viking next year.

    Sticky meets the rub again and I think the comments that follow on him showing up in Vikings Purple and Gold will be really telling with respect to a few peoples comments and might even get to the heart of why some people don't like certain QB's.

    In the end, I am not 100% happy with this draft. I thought they should have addressed the QB position and the DT position. Guess what, I was wrong. Probably cause I am a fan, and not a GM.

    To date, this staff has done everything right with respect to player selection both in the FA market as well as the rookie pool.

    I for one am gonna trust them on the assumption that they do have a long term plan to solve the QB position.
    There you go again Marr with all those wonderful deductions.

    Point a) -- You need to qualify that the NFL staffs didn't believe the QB's in this draft were worth taking high. I believe at 2009's draft the fans on this site were saying that the QB class was crap and we should wait until 2010 when it was going to be loaded. Perceptions change pretty quickly, doesn't make them right.

    Point b) How do you know they are comfortable with TJ. Maybe they just believed your point a) or maybe they believe in Sage or maybe they think its all a wash after Favre.

    Point c) If this is true, it kind of takes away from your point b. I doubt anyone has any real confidence that DNabb will be a Viking next year.

    Using the OR function vs the AND would have worked better.

    I'm disappointed we didn't take a QB higher in the draft, but its hard for me to second guess the talent staff and coaching at this point. If they really didn't believe that guys like Clausen or McCoy were legitimate franchise prospects, than what are you really gain with later round picks over the likes of TJ and Sage? Hopefully they were right, not so sure myself.
    They aren't deductions my friend, they are assumptions, or better yet, opinions.

    As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......
    As to your comments on my points:

    a. I don't need to qualify it. Every team that passed on QB's this year, that needed QB's, did it for me.

    b. TJ is still a Viking. TJ beat out Sage for the number 2. They haven't brought in another Vet or drafted a QB this year when at least 1 "Franchise" guy was there to be selected.

    Again, my opinion, but I seem to feel that those are three pretty good indicators that they are comfortable with TJ and how he fits into the future of the position.

    c. Of course it negates item b. As always, I try to look at things from multiple views. In this case, Dnabb becoming a Viking next year pretty much negates both a) and b).

    As to your question about a later pick. I just believe that you have to have a bevy of QB's, all in a different phase of "Grooming" so that you can adjust accordingly to injuries or a starter leaving for more money.

    This is especially true when it comes to a team that is in the early stages of being rebuilt. I'm not saying we are in that stage anymore (early) but we aren't far from it so I think we should have a group of guys being "Groomed".

    Maybe Archer and Periloux are the next phase. From what I can gather, both are talented, just not as highly touted as the "Franchise" guys most fans follow.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #22
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    Marrdro wrote:
    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    What a great idea for a thread.

    I was a bit upset they didn't take a kid like Skelton or Robinson (or even Snead Kevoncox), but the truth of the matter is, this class is one of the weakest ever when it comes to QB talent. Hell, the number 2 QB on the board went after a kid that has to completely learn how to play QB for cripes sake.

    Anyway, what does this all mean? As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......

    I think this draft said 3 things....

    a. None of the QB's were worth wasting a pick on. Indication for this is that this staff has drafted a QB in every draft since they've been here. This year they didn't.

    By the way, don't believe for one second that Webb is a QB project. He was brought in to play WR, not QB. The QB project from this class will be RJ Archer and Ryan Perriloux (if he gets signed).

    b. They are comfortable with TJ as not only the backup but as the future.

    Now this is were the sticky meets the rub with most fans. With all of our wisdom, we have deemed that this kid doesn't have a future in this league and can't figure out why a real coaching staff believes otherwise.

    Sure the Chiller said he was ready a few times, but what do you expect out of your head coach. Do you expect him to say, he isn't ready, but we don't have anything better so we are gonna run him out there anyways? Gimme a break. That ship has sailed and didn't float either. He didn't throw the kid under the bus.

    c. They believe that Dnabb is gonna be a Viking next year.

    Sticky meets the rub again and I think the comments that follow on him showing up in Vikings Purple and Gold will be really telling with respect to a few peoples comments and might even get to the heart of why some people don't like certain QB's.

    In the end, I am not 100% happy with this draft. I thought they should have addressed the QB position and the DT position. Guess what, I was wrong. Probably cause I am a fan, and not a GM.

    To date, this staff has done everything right with respect to player selection both in the FA market as well as the rookie pool.

    I for one am gonna trust them on the assumption that they do have a long term plan to solve the QB position.
    There you go again Marr with all those wonderful deductions.

    Point a) -- You need to qualify that the NFL staffs didn't believe the QB's in this draft were worth taking high. I believe at 2009's draft the fans on this site were saying that the QB class was crap and we should wait until 2010 when it was going to be loaded. Perceptions change pretty quickly, doesn't make them right.

    Point b) How do you know they are comfortable with TJ. Maybe they just believed your point a) or maybe they believe in Sage or maybe they think its all a wash after Favre.

    Point c) If this is true, it kind of takes away from your point b. I doubt anyone has any real confidence that DNabb will be a Viking next year.

    Using the OR function vs the AND would have worked better.

    I'm disappointed we didn't take a QB higher in the draft, but its hard for me to second guess the talent staff and coaching at this point. If they really didn't believe that guys like Clausen or McCoy were legitimate franchise prospects, than what are you really gain with later round picks over the likes of TJ and Sage? Hopefully they were right, not so sure myself.
    They aren't deductions my friend, they are assumptions, or better yet, opinions.

    As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......
    As to your comments on my points:

    a. I don't need to qualify it. Every team that passed on QB's this year, that needed QB's, did it for me.

    b. TJ is still a Viking. TJ beat out Sage for the number 2. They haven't brought in another Vet or drafted a QB this year when at least 1 "Franchise" guy was there to be selected.

    Again, my opinion, but I seem to feel that those are three pretty good indicators that they are comfortable with TJ and how he fits into the future of the position.

    c. Of course it negates item b. As always, I try to look at things from multiple views. In this case, Dnabb becoming a Viking next year pretty much negates both a) and b).

    As to your question about a later pick. I just believe that you have to have a bevy of QB's, all in a different phase of "Grooming" so that you can adjust accordingly to injuries or a starter leaving for more money.

    This is especially true when it comes to a team that is in the early stages of being rebuilt. I'm not saying we are in that stage anymore (early) but we aren't far from it so I think we should have a group of guys being "Groomed".

    Maybe Archer and Periloux are the next phase. From what I can gather, both are talented, just not as highly touted as the "Franchise" guys most fans follow.
    Let's look at it this way. If the Vikes were to select one of the "franchise" type QBs available in the draft that would mean they would have to get rid of either Favre, TJ or SR. Which one of the "franchise" QBs (other than Bradford or Tebow since they were selected prior to the Vikes having a pick) would be better than any one of those 3? You draft to make your team better, not worse! Drafting anry of the QBs would not have improved the Vikings.

  3. #23
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is offline Posting to P'own
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    What a great idea for a thread.

    I was a bit upset they didn't take a kid like Skelton or Robinson (or even Snead Kevoncox), but the truth of the matter is, this class is one of the weakest ever when it comes to QB talent. Hell, the number 2 QB on the board went after a kid that has to completely learn how to play QB for cripes sake.

    Anyway, what does this all mean? As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......

    I think this draft said 3 things....

    a. None of the QB's were worth wasting a pick on. Indication for this is that this staff has drafted a QB in every draft since they've been here. This year they didn't.

    By the way, don't believe for one second that Webb is a QB project. He was brought in to play WR, not QB. The QB project from this class will be RJ Archer and Ryan Perriloux (if he gets signed).

    b. They are comfortable with TJ as not only the backup but as the future.

    Now this is were the sticky meets the rub with most fans. With all of our wisdom, we have deemed that this kid doesn't have a future in this league and can't figure out why a real coaching staff believes otherwise.

    Sure the Chiller said he was ready a few times, but what do you expect out of your head coach. Do you expect him to say, he isn't ready, but we don't have anything better so we are gonna run him out there anyways? Gimme a break. That ship has sailed and didn't float either. He didn't throw the kid under the bus.

    c. They believe that Dnabb is gonna be a Viking next year.

    Sticky meets the rub again and I think the comments that follow on him showing up in Vikings Purple and Gold will be really telling with respect to a few peoples comments and might even get to the heart of why some people don't like certain QB's.

    In the end, I am not 100% happy with this draft. I thought they should have addressed the QB position and the DT position. Guess what, I was wrong. Probably cause I am a fan, and not a GM.

    To date, this staff has done everything right with respect to player selection both in the FA market as well as the rookie pool.

    I for one am gonna trust them on the assumption that they do have a long term plan to solve the QB position.
    There you go again Marr with all those wonderful deductions.

    Point a) -- You need to qualify that the NFL staffs didn't believe the QB's in this draft were worth taking high. I believe at 2009's draft the fans on this site were saying that the QB class was crap and we should wait until 2010 when it was going to be loaded. Perceptions change pretty quickly, doesn't make them right.

    Point b) How do you know they are comfortable with TJ. Maybe they just believed your point a) or maybe they believe in Sage or maybe they think its all a wash after Favre.

    Point c) If this is true, it kind of takes away from your point b. I doubt anyone has any real confidence that DNabb will be a Viking next year.

    Using the OR function vs the AND would have worked better.

    I'm disappointed we didn't take a QB higher in the draft, but its hard for me to second guess the talent staff and coaching at this point. If they really didn't believe that guys like Clausen or McCoy were legitimate franchise prospects, than what are you really gain with later round picks over the likes of TJ and Sage? Hopefully they were right, not so sure myself.
    They aren't deductions my friend, they are assumptions, or better yet, opinions.

    As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......
    As to your comments on my points:

    a. I don't need to qualify it. Every team that passed on QB's this year, that needed QB's, did it for me.

    b. TJ is still a Viking. TJ beat out Sage for the number 2. They haven't brought in another Vet or drafted a QB this year when at least 1 "Franchise" guy was there to be selected.

    Again, my opinion, but I seem to feel that those are three pretty good indicators that they are comfortable with TJ and how he fits into the future of the position.

    c. Of course it negates item b. As always, I try to look at things from multiple views. In this case, Dnabb becoming a Viking next year pretty much negates both a) and b).

    As to your question about a later pick. I just believe that you have to have a bevy of QB's, all in a different phase of "Grooming" so that you can adjust accordingly to injuries or a starter leaving for more money.

    This is especially true when it comes to a team that is in the early stages of being rebuilt. I'm not saying we are in that stage anymore (early) but we aren't far from it so I think we should have a group of guys being "Groomed".

    Maybe Archer and Periloux are the next phase. From what I can gather, both are talented, just not as highly touted as the "Franchise" guys most fans follow.
    Let's look at it this way. If the Vikes were to select one of the "franchise" type QBs available in the draft that would mean they would have to get rid of either Favre, TJ or SR. Which one of the "franchise" QBs (other than Bradford or Tebow since they were selected prior to the Vikes having a pick) would be better than any one of those 3? You draft to make your team better, not worse! Drafting anry of the QBs would not have improved the Vikings.
    Draft McCoy and get rid of Sage. Easy.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  4. #24
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    C Mac D wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    What a great idea for a thread.

    I was a bit upset they didn't take a kid like Skelton or Robinson (or even Snead Kevoncox), but the truth of the matter is, this class is one of the weakest ever when it comes to QB talent. Hell, the number 2 QB on the board went after a kid that has to completely learn how to play QB for cripes sake.

    Anyway, what does this all mean? As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......

    I think this draft said 3 things....

    a. None of the QB's were worth wasting a pick on. Indication for this is that this staff has drafted a QB in every draft since they've been here. This year they didn't.

    By the way, don't believe for one second that Webb is a QB project. He was brought in to play WR, not QB. The QB project from this class will be RJ Archer and Ryan Perriloux (if he gets signed).

    b. They are comfortable with TJ as not only the backup but as the future.

    Now this is were the sticky meets the rub with most fans. With all of our wisdom, we have deemed that this kid doesn't have a future in this league and can't figure out why a real coaching staff believes otherwise.

    Sure the Chiller said he was ready a few times, but what do you expect out of your head coach. Do you expect him to say, he isn't ready, but we don't have anything better so we are gonna run him out there anyways? Gimme a break. That ship has sailed and didn't float either. He didn't throw the kid under the bus.

    c. They believe that Dnabb is gonna be a Viking next year.

    Sticky meets the rub again and I think the comments that follow on him showing up in Vikings Purple and Gold will be really telling with respect to a few peoples comments and might even get to the heart of why some people don't like certain QB's.

    In the end, I am not 100% happy with this draft. I thought they should have addressed the QB position and the DT position. Guess what, I was wrong. Probably cause I am a fan, and not a GM.

    To date, this staff has done everything right with respect to player selection both in the FA market as well as the rookie pool.

    I for one am gonna trust them on the assumption that they do have a long term plan to solve the QB position.
    There you go again Marr with all those wonderful deductions.

    Point a) -- You need to qualify that the NFL staffs didn't believe the QB's in this draft were worth taking high. I believe at 2009's draft the fans on this site were saying that the QB class was crap and we should wait until 2010 when it was going to be loaded. Perceptions change pretty quickly, doesn't make them right.

    Point b) How do you know they are comfortable with TJ. Maybe they just believed your point a) or maybe they believe in Sage or maybe they think its all a wash after Favre.

    Point c) If this is true, it kind of takes away from your point b. I doubt anyone has any real confidence that DNabb will be a Viking next year.

    Using the OR function vs the AND would have worked better.

    I'm disappointed we didn't take a QB higher in the draft, but its hard for me to second guess the talent staff and coaching at this point. If they really didn't believe that guys like Clausen or McCoy were legitimate franchise prospects, than what are you really gain with later round picks over the likes of TJ and Sage? Hopefully they were right, not so sure myself.
    They aren't deductions my friend, they are assumptions, or better yet, opinions.

    As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......
    As to your comments on my points:

    a. I don't need to qualify it. Every team that passed on QB's this year, that needed QB's, did it for me.

    b. TJ is still a Viking. TJ beat out Sage for the number 2. They haven't brought in another Vet or drafted a QB this year when at least 1 "Franchise" guy was there to be selected.

    Again, my opinion, but I seem to feel that those are three pretty good indicators that they are comfortable with TJ and how he fits into the future of the position.

    c. Of course it negates item b. As always, I try to look at things from multiple views. In this case, Dnabb becoming a Viking next year pretty much negates both a) and b).

    As to your question about a later pick. I just believe that you have to have a bevy of QB's, all in a different phase of "Grooming" so that you can adjust accordingly to injuries or a starter leaving for more money.

    This is especially true when it comes to a team that is in the early stages of being rebuilt. I'm not saying we are in that stage anymore (early) but we aren't far from it so I think we should have a group of guys being "Groomed".

    Maybe Archer and Periloux are the next phase. From what I can gather, both are talented, just not as highly touted as the "Franchise" guys most fans follow.
    Let's look at it this way. If the Vikes were to select one of the "franchise" type QBs available in the draft that would mean they would have to get rid of either Favre, TJ or SR. Which one of the "franchise" QBs (other than Bradford or Tebow since they were selected prior to the Vikes having a pick) would be better than any one of those 3? You draft to make your team better, not worse! Drafting anry of the QBs would not have improved the Vikings.
    Draft McCoy and get rid of Sage. Easy.
    Maybe but who is to say McCoy is better than Sage? Drafting McCoy would not be an upgrade over either SR or TJ.

    Let it be known I wanted McCoy. I like the kid and I think he will be a good QB. However, how would he help us if the 3rd string would have to come in? Judging that right now is impossible since there is no criteria or data to referrence. It's all pure speculation at this point.

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    ejmat wrote:Marrdro wrote:
    Let's look at it this way. If the Vikes were to select one of the "franchise" type QBs available in the draft that would mean they would have to get rid of either Favre, TJ or SR. Which one of the "franchise" QBs (other than Bradford or Tebow since they were selected prior to the Vikes having a pick) would be better than any one of those 3? You draft to make your team better, not worse! Drafting anry of the QBs would not have improved the Vikings.
    First, I don't count the 3rd string QB as anything other than wasted space, atleast until you've lost both your starter and his backup.

    I don't know how many times that has happened in the past, but I don't think it is enough to warrant fretting over the difference between a Sage and a McCoy.

    At that point, though, I would probably opt to go with the Rook. Mostly because of the percieved upside as opposed to a cat sitting on the bench who has, for the last 10 years proved that he is nothing more than a backup.

    Truth of the matter is, I was kindof stoked when we got Sage, but after he couldn't even beat out TJ, I kindof cooled on him.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    ejmat wrote:
    C Mac D wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    What a great idea for a thread.

    I was a bit upset they didn't take a kid like Skelton or Robinson (or even Snead Kevoncox), but the truth of the matter is, this class is one of the weakest ever when it comes to QB talent. Hell, the number 2 QB on the board went after a kid that has to completely learn how to play QB for cripes sake.

    Anyway, what does this all mean? As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......

    I think this draft said 3 things....

    a. None of the QB's were worth wasting a pick on. Indication for this is that this staff has drafted a QB in every draft since they've been here. This year they didn't.

    By the way, don't believe for one second that Webb is a QB project. He was brought in to play WR, not QB. The QB project from this class will be RJ Archer and Ryan Perriloux (if he gets signed).

    b. They are comfortable with TJ as not only the backup but as the future.

    Now this is were the sticky meets the rub with most fans. With all of our wisdom, we have deemed that this kid doesn't have a future in this league and can't figure out why a real coaching staff believes otherwise.

    Sure the Chiller said he was ready a few times, but what do you expect out of your head coach. Do you expect him to say, he isn't ready, but we don't have anything better so we are gonna run him out there anyways? Gimme a break. That ship has sailed and didn't float either. He didn't throw the kid under the bus.

    c. They believe that Dnabb is gonna be a Viking next year.

    Sticky meets the rub again and I think the comments that follow on him showing up in Vikings Purple and Gold will be really telling with respect to a few peoples comments and might even get to the heart of why some people don't like certain QB's.

    In the end, I am not 100% happy with this draft. I thought they should have addressed the QB position and the DT position. Guess what, I was wrong. Probably cause I am a fan, and not a GM.

    To date, this staff has done everything right with respect to player selection both in the FA market as well as the rookie pool.

    I for one am gonna trust them on the assumption that they do have a long term plan to solve the QB position.
    There you go again Marr with all those wonderful deductions.

    Point a) -- You need to qualify that the NFL staffs didn't believe the QB's in this draft were worth taking high. I believe at 2009's draft the fans on this site were saying that the QB class was crap and we should wait until 2010 when it was going to be loaded. Perceptions change pretty quickly, doesn't make them right.

    Point b) How do you know they are comfortable with TJ. Maybe they just believed your point a) or maybe they believe in Sage or maybe they think its all a wash after Favre.

    Point c) If this is true, it kind of takes away from your point b. I doubt anyone has any real confidence that DNabb will be a Viking next year.

    Using the OR function vs the AND would have worked better.

    I'm disappointed we didn't take a QB higher in the draft, but its hard for me to second guess the talent staff and coaching at this point. If they really didn't believe that guys like Clausen or McCoy were legitimate franchise prospects, than what are you really gain with later round picks over the likes of TJ and Sage? Hopefully they were right, not so sure myself.
    They aren't deductions my friend, they are assumptions, or better yet, opinions.

    As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......
    As to your comments on my points:

    a. I don't need to qualify it. Every team that passed on QB's this year, that needed QB's, did it for me.

    b. TJ is still a Viking. TJ beat out Sage for the number 2. They haven't brought in another Vet or drafted a QB this year when at least 1 "Franchise" guy was there to be selected.

    Again, my opinion, but I seem to feel that those are three pretty good indicators that they are comfortable with TJ and how he fits into the future of the position.

    c. Of course it negates item b. As always, I try to look at things from multiple views. In this case, Dnabb becoming a Viking next year pretty much negates both a) and b).

    As to your question about a later pick. I just believe that you have to have a bevy of QB's, all in a different phase of "Grooming" so that you can adjust accordingly to injuries or a starter leaving for more money.

    This is especially true when it comes to a team that is in the early stages of being rebuilt. I'm not saying we are in that stage anymore (early) but we aren't far from it so I think we should have a group of guys being "Groomed".

    Maybe Archer and Periloux are the next phase. From what I can gather, both are talented, just not as highly touted as the "Franchise" guys most fans follow.
    Let's look at it this way. If the Vikes were to select one of the "franchise" type QBs available in the draft that would mean they would have to get rid of either Favre, TJ or SR. Which one of the "franchise" QBs (other than Bradford or Tebow since they were selected prior to the Vikes having a pick) would be better than any one of those 3? You draft to make your team better, not worse! Drafting anry of the QBs would not have improved the Vikings.
    Draft McCoy and get rid of Sage. Easy.
    Maybe but who is to say McCoy is better than Sage? Drafting McCoy would not be an upgrade over either SR or TJ.

    Let it be known I wanted McCoy. I like the kid and I think he will be a good QB. However, how would he help us if the 3rd string would have to come in? Judging that right now is impossible since there is no criteria or data to referrence. It's all pure speculation at this point.
    Yet you'll never know because Chiller NEVER takes a shot at a QB. His single attempt was to reach up anywhere from 1 to 3 rounds and select Jackson...and despite negative results, he's stood pat ever since.

    As for the rest of your nonsense, ejmat, Favre a NOW solution - he doesn't address next season, or any season after that. For taht matter, neither do Rosenfels of Jackson based upon all available information.

    Speculating about first line QBs going down is a lot like your fanciful projection about the quality of our back-ups. INdy isn't planning on Manning going down, New England hopes for a healthy Brady, and WE are praying that Favre comes back and lasts all season. The DIFFERENCE - which you consistantly fail to grasp - is that those other teams are ALSO planning to have those QB's for quite awhile.

    Philly was looking to replace Mcnabb, so they went and got Kolb. Green Bay was planning for favre's retirement, so they went and got Rodgers. But they waited until a point where they projected they would have a NEED in the near future.

    WE, on the other hand, have had that same NEED for 5 years...and have done precious little about it. We have taken virtually NO steps to acquire the long term services of a quality QB.

    So, far from stopping my alleged "whining", I'll point out - once again - that as a FAN, my input is free. And if you disagree, that's fine. But if you can't keep it civil, I'll start responding in kind.

    Caine

  7. #27
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    Marrdro wrote:
    ejmat wrote:Marrdro wrote:
    Let's look at it this way. If the Vikes were to select one of the "franchise" type QBs available in the draft that would mean they would have to get rid of either Favre, TJ or SR. Which one of the "franchise" QBs (other than Bradford or Tebow since they were selected prior to the Vikes having a pick) would be better than any one of those 3? You draft to make your team better, not worse! Drafting anry of the QBs would not have improved the Vikings.
    First, I don't count the 3rd string QB as anything other than wasted space, atleast until you've lost both your starter and his backup.

    I don't know how many times that has happened in the past, but I don't think it is enough to warrant fretting over the difference between a Sage and a McCoy.

    At that point, though, I would probably opt to go with the Rook. Mostly because of the percieved upside as opposed to a cat sitting on the bench who has, for the last 10 years proved that he is nothing more than a backup.

    Truth of the matter is, I was kindof stoked when we got Sage, but after he couldn't even beat out TJ, I kindof cooled on him.
    Marrdro, were you hinting at a racial bias towards QB's in your post above?

  8. #28
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    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    ejmat wrote:Marrdro wrote:
    Let's look at it this way. If the Vikes were to select one of the "franchise" type QBs available in the draft that would mean they would have to get rid of either Favre, TJ or SR. Which one of the "franchise" QBs (other than Bradford or Tebow since they were selected prior to the Vikes having a pick) would be better than any one of those 3? You draft to make your team better, not worse! Drafting anry of the QBs would not have improved the Vikings.
    First, I don't count the 3rd string QB as anything other than wasted space, atleast until you've lost both your starter and his backup.

    I don't know how many times that has happened in the past, but I don't think it is enough to warrant fretting over the difference between a Sage and a McCoy.

    At that point, though, I would probably opt to go with the Rook. Mostly because of the percieved upside as opposed to a cat sitting on the bench who has, for the last 10 years proved that he is nothing more than a backup.

    Truth of the matter is, I was kindof stoked when we got Sage, but after he couldn't even beat out TJ, I kindof cooled on him.
    Marrdro, were you hinting at a racial bias towards QB's in your post above?
    I wasn't....But after this, I went back and re-read it to see and I guess it could be taken that way.

    My apologies if it came across that way. I think you've seen enough of my stuff to know I don't roll that way.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    Caine wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    C Mac D wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    What a great idea for a thread.

    I was a bit upset they didn't take a kid like Skelton or Robinson (or even Snead Kevoncox), but the truth of the matter is, this class is one of the weakest ever when it comes to QB talent. Hell, the number 2 QB on the board went after a kid that has to completely learn how to play QB for cripes sake.

    Anyway, what does this all mean? As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......

    I think this draft said 3 things....

    a. None of the QB's were worth wasting a pick on. Indication for this is that this staff has drafted a QB in every draft since they've been here. This year they didn't.

    By the way, don't believe for one second that Webb is a QB project. He was brought in to play WR, not QB. The QB project from this class will be RJ Archer and Ryan Perriloux (if he gets signed).

    b. They are comfortable with TJ as not only the backup but as the future.

    Now this is were the sticky meets the rub with most fans. With all of our wisdom, we have deemed that this kid doesn't have a future in this league and can't figure out why a real coaching staff believes otherwise.

    Sure the Chiller said he was ready a few times, but what do you expect out of your head coach. Do you expect him to say, he isn't ready, but we don't have anything better so we are gonna run him out there anyways? Gimme a break. That ship has sailed and didn't float either. He didn't throw the kid under the bus.

    c. They believe that Dnabb is gonna be a Viking next year.

    Sticky meets the rub again and I think the comments that follow on him showing up in Vikings Purple and Gold will be really telling with respect to a few peoples comments and might even get to the heart of why some people don't like certain QB's.

    In the end, I am not 100% happy with this draft. I thought they should have addressed the QB position and the DT position. Guess what, I was wrong. Probably cause I am a fan, and not a GM.

    To date, this staff has done everything right with respect to player selection both in the FA market as well as the rookie pool.

    I for one am gonna trust them on the assumption that they do have a long term plan to solve the QB position.
    There you go again Marr with all those wonderful deductions.

    Point a) -- You need to qualify that the NFL staffs didn't believe the QB's in this draft were worth taking high. I believe at 2009's draft the fans on this site were saying that the QB class was crap and we should wait until 2010 when it was going to be loaded. Perceptions change pretty quickly, doesn't make them right.

    Point b) How do you know they are comfortable with TJ. Maybe they just believed your point a) or maybe they believe in Sage or maybe they think its all a wash after Favre.

    Point c) If this is true, it kind of takes away from your point b. I doubt anyone has any real confidence that DNabb will be a Viking next year.

    Using the OR function vs the AND would have worked better.

    I'm disappointed we didn't take a QB higher in the draft, but its hard for me to second guess the talent staff and coaching at this point. If they really didn't believe that guys like Clausen or McCoy were legitimate franchise prospects, than what are you really gain with later round picks over the likes of TJ and Sage? Hopefully they were right, not so sure myself.
    They aren't deductions my friend, they are assumptions, or better yet, opinions.

    As Caine said, I am a fan and have every right to have an opinion, so here it goes......
    As to your comments on my points:

    a. I don't need to qualify it. Every team that passed on QB's this year, that needed QB's, did it for me.

    b. TJ is still a Viking. TJ beat out Sage for the number 2. They haven't brought in another Vet or drafted a QB this year when at least 1 "Franchise" guy was there to be selected.

    Again, my opinion, but I seem to feel that those are three pretty good indicators that they are comfortable with TJ and how he fits into the future of the position.

    c. Of course it negates item b. As always, I try to look at things from multiple views. In this case, Dnabb becoming a Viking next year pretty much negates both a) and b).

    As to your question about a later pick. I just believe that you have to have a bevy of QB's, all in a different phase of "Grooming" so that you can adjust accordingly to injuries or a starter leaving for more money.

    This is especially true when it comes to a team that is in the early stages of being rebuilt. I'm not saying we are in that stage anymore (early) but we aren't far from it so I think we should have a group of guys being "Groomed".

    Maybe Archer and Periloux are the next phase. From what I can gather, both are talented, just not as highly touted as the "Franchise" guys most fans follow.
    Let's look at it this way. If the Vikes were to select one of the "franchise" type QBs available in the draft that would mean they would have to get rid of either Favre, TJ or SR. Which one of the "franchise" QBs (other than Bradford or Tebow since they were selected prior to the Vikes having a pick) would be better than any one of those 3? You draft to make your team better, not worse! Drafting anry of the QBs would not have improved the Vikings.
    Draft McCoy and get rid of Sage. Easy.
    Maybe but who is to say McCoy is better than Sage? Drafting McCoy would not be an upgrade over either SR or TJ.

    Let it be known I wanted McCoy. I like the kid and I think he will be a good QB. However, how would he help us if the 3rd string would have to come in? Judging that right now is impossible since there is no criteria or data to referrence. It's all pure speculation at this point.
    Yet you'll never know because Chiller NEVER takes a shot at a QB. His single attempt was to reach up anywhere from 1 to 3 rounds and select Jackson...and despite negative results, he's stood pat ever since.

    As for the rest of your nonsense, ejmat, Favre a NOW solution - he doesn't address next season, or any season after that. For taht matter, neither do Rosenfels of Jackson based upon all available information.

    Speculating about first line QBs going down is a lot like your fanciful projection about the quality of our back-ups. INdy isn't planning on Manning going down, New England hopes for a healthy Brady, and WE are praying that Favre comes back and lasts all season. The DIFFERENCE - which you consistantly fail to grasp - is that those other teams are ALSO planning to have those QB's for quite awhile.

    Philly was looking to replace Mcnabb, so they went and got Kolb. Green Bay was planning for favre's retirement, so they went and got Rodgers. But they waited until a point where they projected they would have a NEED in the near future.

    WE, on the other hand, have had that same NEED for 5 years...and have done precious little about it. We have taken virtually NO steps to acquire the long term services of a quality QB.

    So, far from stopping my alleged "whining", I'll point out - once again - that as a FAN, my input is free. And if you disagree, that's fine. But if you can't keep it civil, I'll start responding in kind.

    Caine
    I apologize if I ruffled your feathers here but the same can be said about you at times. But you are right that I need to keep it civil so I will apologize.

    As to my "nonsense" as you put it, Favre is the now solution. He was last year and he is this year. You say that "Chilly" never addresses the QB position. Really? Let's see he drafted TJ his first year. He drafted Thigpen in 2007, then Booty in 2008. Last year he traded for SR and brought in Favre. This is the only year he didn't address the QB in the draft so I'm not sure what you are referring to. The only agreement I have is the 2 FA he could have brought in which we agreed to in other threads. Unfortunately, they haven't panned out. Because of molding? Maybe or maybe not. They haven't had the chance to prove themselves.

    The point is here that this debate keeps coming up and will never be put to sleep because people hold shades and say he hasn't addressed the position. He has. It hasn't worked out to where we have a "franchise" QB but something has worked out as we have won the NFCN the past 2 seasons (even without Favre).

    Nothing that could have been drafted in this year's crop would have made the team better. I can admit that drafting one of them and getting rid of either Sage or TJ may have been better but you are right in that we will never know.

  10. #30
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    Re:Clarifying my position...a chiller rant

    Caine wrote:
    Yet you'll never know because Chiller NEVER takes a shot at a QB. His single attempt was to reach up anywhere from 1 to 3 rounds and select Jackson...and despite negative results, he's stood pat ever since.
    No love for Booty, I see.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

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