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  1. #21
    skum's Avatar
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    I was high on Shiancoe when we signed him and everyone doubted it because i knew a few Giants fans who gave my some info on him, however Schiancoe was so far been a bust, he does still have the right tools to become a good system TE - i think part of the problems for Shiancoe is that he needs to be implemented more in the offense, the quarterback should trust him more and give him more receptions, even though he dropped a few balls that can also come from not getting the ball much.

    With that said i wouldnt be surprised to see Childress go after LJ Smith if he hits the open market. Otherwise i think that Shiancoe is payed starter money to be a starter and Childress will not throw him complete out of ther playbook or the roster for that sake..


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  2. #22
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    He already hit bottom. He can't help but improve. The question remains: is he worth the risk?

    I would love it if Shiancoe has a great offseason, comes back next season and kicks butt. I just can't be optimistic as a simple fan who only sees the Vikes on gameday
    I still contend that all the Receivers on this staff (WR, TE, RB etc) did what was expected of them.

    Could they have elimnated a couple of drops when the opportunities to actually catch a ball were presented, sure, but damn, they must have been suprised that the ball even got to them in most cases because of "Futureboys" struggles.

    Get me a QB that throws a consitent ball, on time and on target and these guys will do a good job.
    Will they ever make us forget about Moss, Carter and Reid?
    Probably not, but that isn't the type of team we are anymore.
    They didn't do any better with Holcolm or Bollinger throwing them the ball.

    All in all IMO if we improve the OL play we will see better play from whoever we have at QB. Specifically Right and Left Guard and even the center,who is not doing as well as he has in the past.


    That being said it has been a two edged sword to the point that when the QB has gotten time and has put the ball where it needs to be, there have been far too many drops of catchable balls from all RB's, WR's and TE's.
    There are still alot of holes to be filled and positions to be solidified before we can be a consistent team in every phase of every game. Changing one or two players at any of the skill positions will not make a remarkable change in the tea as a whole

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    He already hit bottom. He can't help but improve. The question remains: is he worth the risk?

    I would love it if Shiancoe has a great offseason, comes back next season and kicks butt. I just can't be optimistic as a simple fan who only sees the Vikes on gameday
    I still contend that all the Receivers on this staff (WR, TE, RB etc) did what was expected of them.

    Could they have elimnated a couple of drops when the opportunities to actually catch a ball were presented, sure, but gol 'darnit, they must have been suprised that the ball even got to them in most cases because of "Futureboys" struggles.

    Get me a QB that throws a consitent ball, on time and on target and these guys will do a good job.
    Will they ever make us forget about Moss, Carter and Reid?
    Probably not, but that isn't the type of team we are anymore.
    They didn't do any better with Holcolm or Bollinger throwing them the ball.

    All in all IMO if we improve the OL play we will see better play from whoever we have at QB. Specifically Right and Left Guard and even the center,who is not doing as well as he has in the past.



    That being said it has been a two edged sword to the point that when the QB has gotten time and has put the ball where it needs to be, there have been far too many drops of catchable balls from all RB's, WR's and TE's.
    There are still alot of holes to be filled and positions to be solidified before we can be a consistent team in every phase of every game. Changing one or two players at any of the skill positions will not make a remarkable change in the tea as a whole
    Very nice argument however, I disagree to a point.

    I think we have good DE's, just not a great one.
    Add a great one and let Erasmus go and we are set.

    I don't think KH or BB are servicable backups and TJ, even if he does improve over the offseason a bit will be nothing spectacular and won't be any more competent to lead this team with any consistency next year.

    Fix those two holes and we will be very consistent.
    QB would upgrade passing attack and DE would upgrade passing attack.


    On offense we would hold the ball longer, force teams to defend the whole field in effect opening back up our running game.

    On defense a improved pass rush from the right side would force teams to hold a RB or a TE in to help out, free up the Williams boys to get even more pressure up the middle and force the QB to throw ahead of schedule and probably into poor situations as we see happening to our QB.
    That would in effect make our CB/S look better and allow our LB to roam/make plays in both the running game and passing games.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season


    I can't believe that Tarvaris is being thrown under the buss already. He has had a couple bad games, but we must remember he is only starting his first full season, and we've done better than expected. So now we've dropped a big game and it's time to let "Future Boy" warm the bench. I think maybe we were spoiled by a team that pulled together and played better than expected. I don't think any of you expected a playoff run. Shiancoe will grow into this system and Tarvaris will be better next year also.

  5. #25
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    He already hit bottom. He can't help but improve. The question remains: is he worth the risk?

    I would love it if Shiancoe has a great offseason, comes back next season and kicks butt. I just can't be optimistic as a simple fan who only sees the Vikes on gameday
    I still contend that all the Receivers on this staff (WR, TE, RB etc) did what was expected of them.

    Could they have elimnated a couple of drops when the opportunities to actually catch a ball were presented, sure, but gol 'darnit, they must have been suprised that the ball even got to them in most cases because of "Futureboys" struggles.

    Get me a QB that throws a consitent ball, on time and on target and these guys will do a good job.
    Will they ever make us forget about Moss, Carter and Reid?
    Probably not, but that isn't the type of team we are anymore.
    They didn't do any better with Holcolm or Bollinger throwing them the ball.

    All in all IMO if we improve the OL play we will see better play from whoever we have at QB. Specifically Right and Left Guard and even the center,who is not doing as well as he has in the past.


    That being said it has been a two edged sword to the point that when the QB has gotten time and has put the ball where it needs to be, there have been far too many drops of catchable balls from all RB's, WR's and TE's.
    There are still alot of holes to be filled and positions to be solidified before we can be a consistent team in every phase of every game. Changing one or two players at any of the skill positions will not make a remarkable change in the tea as a whole
    Very nice argument however, I disagree to a point.

    I think we have good DE's, just not a great one.
    Add a great one and let Erasmus go and we are set.

    I don't think KH or BB are servicable backups and TJ, even if he does improve over the offseason a bit will be nothing spectacular and won't be any more competent to lead this team with any consistency next year.

    Fix those two holes and we will be very consistent.
    QB would upgrade passing attack and DE would upgrade passing attack.


    On offense we would hold the ball longer, force teams to defend the whole field in effect opening back up our running game.

    On defense a improved pass rush from the right side would force teams to hold a RB or a TE in to help out, free up the Williams boys to get even more pressure up the middle and force the QB to throw ahead of schedule and probably into poor situations as we see happening to our QB.
    That would in effect make our CB/S look better and allow our LB to roam/make plays in both the running game and passing games.
    So now you are happy with the OL and see no reason to change it? Times are a changing ;D

  6. #26
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    Personally about Shanc, he has let us down at times, but I think that with an improved QB, he might pick up his play.
    Dropped pass in KC is costing us a playoff spot at this time.
    I seem to recall some fumbles by him too?? ?? ??

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    He already hit bottom. He can't help but improve. The question remains: is he worth the risk?

    I would love it if Shiancoe has a great offseason, comes back next season and kicks butt. I just can't be optimistic as a simple fan who only sees the Vikes on gameday
    I still contend that all the Receivers on this staff (WR, TE, RB etc) did what was expected of them.

    Could they have elimnated a couple of drops when the opportunities to actually catch a ball were presented, sure, but gol 'darnit, they must have been suprised that the ball even got to them in most cases because of "Futureboys" struggles.

    Get me a QB that throws a consitent ball, on time and on target and these guys will do a good job.
    Will they ever make us forget about Moss, Carter and Reid?
    Probably not, but that isn't the type of team we are anymore.
    They didn't do any better with Holcolm or Bollinger throwing them the ball.

    All in all IMO if we improve the OL play we will see better play from whoever we have at QB. Specifically Right and Left Guard and even the center,who is not doing as well as he has in the past.



    That being said it has been a two edged sword to the point that when the QB has gotten time and has put the ball where it needs to be, there have been far too many drops of catchable balls from all RB's, WR's and TE's.
    There are still alot of holes to be filled and positions to be solidified before we can be a consistent team in every phase of every game. Changing one or two players at any of the skill positions will not make a remarkable change in the tea as a whole
    Very nice argument however, I disagree to a point.

    I think we have good DE's, just not a great one.
    Add a great one and let Erasmus go and we are set.

    I don't think KH or BB are servicable backups and TJ, even if he does improve over the offseason a bit will be nothing spectacular and won't be any more competent to lead this team with any consistency next year.

    Fix those two holes and we will be very consistent.
    QB would upgrade passing attack and DE would upgrade passing attack.


    On offense we would hold the ball longer, force teams to defend the whole field in effect opening back up our running game.

    On defense a improved pass rush from the right side would force teams to hold a RB or a TE in to help out, free up the Williams boys to get even more pressure up the middle and force the QB to throw ahead of schedule and probably into poor situations as we see happening to our QB.
    That would in effect make our CB/S look better and allow our LB to roam/make plays in both the running game and passing games.
    So now you are happy with the OL and see no reason to change it? Times are a changing ;D
    I am not so sure about Cook yet but as with all the young guys this year, he was thrown to the wolves and I believe did a very good (not great) job for the following reasons:

    a.
    Most of the OL play issues are directly related to the fact that we run both a ZB and man-to-man blocking schemes.
    Sure most teams do that at times but the ones who do it contend that it takes a heck of alot longer to install than we have been at it.
    Throw in the fact that Birk seemed to struggle with his line calls/adjustments to what the D showed early on in the year kindof contributed to all of the OLmen doing bad at times.
    b.
    The gaurd who played next to him when he really seemed to struggle is gone.
    I think he is very comfortable next to my boy "The New 64" Herrera.
    c.
    He has faced some pretty damn good DE this year and based on his experience level, held his own to a certain extent.

    I really look for this group to really really come together over the off season and will be extremely good in both the pass and the run aspects of the offense.

    That and that alone will allow our TE's and RB's to get into the passing aspect a bit more as well.
    Lets not forget the premise of the WCO is just that, however, if the OL can't do thier job we then need to take one of our play makers out of the play (TE and RB) to help out in pass protection.

    As with all things, it starts at the line and if they do good or bad the trickle down effect comes into play.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=vikesfargo link=topic=40979.msg697359#msg697359 date=1198687763]
    He already hit bottom. He can't help but improve. The question remains: is he worth the risk?

    I would love it if Shiancoe has a great offseason, comes back next season and kicks butt. I just can't be optimistic as a simple fan who only sees the Vikes on gameday
    I still contend that all the Receivers on this staff (WR, TE, RB etc) did what was expected of them.

    Could they have elimnated a couple of drops when the opportunities to actually catch a ball were presented, sure, but gol 'darnit, they must have been suprised that the ball even got to them in most cases because of "Futureboys" struggles.

    Get me a QB that throws a consitent ball, on time and on target and these guys will do a good job.
    Will they ever make us forget about Moss, Carter and Reid?
    Probably not, but that isn't the type of team we are anymore.
    They didn't do any better with Holcolm or Bollinger throwing them the ball.

    All in all IMO if we improve the OL play we will see better play from whoever we have at QB. Specifically Right and Left Guard and even the center,who is not doing as well as he has in the past.


    That being said it has been a two edged sword to the point that when the QB has gotten time and has put the ball where it needs to be, there have been far too many drops of catchable balls from all RB's, WR's and TE's.
    There are still alot of holes to be filled and positions to be solidified before we can be a consistent team in every phase of every game. Changing one or two players at any of the skill positions will not make a remarkable change in the tea as a whole
    Very nice argument however, I disagree to a point.

    I think we have good DE's, just not a great one.
    Add a great one and let Erasmus go and we are set.

    I don't think KH or BB are servicable backups and TJ, even if he does improve over the offseason a bit will be nothing spectacular and won't be any more competent to lead this team with any consistency next year.

    Fix those two holes and we will be very consistent.
    QB would upgrade passing attack and DE would upgrade passing attack.


    On offense we would hold the ball longer, force teams to defend the whole field in effect opening back up our running game.

    On defense a improved pass rush from the right side would force teams to hold a RB or a TE in to help out, free up the Williams boys to get even more pressure up the middle and force the QB to throw ahead of schedule and probably into poor situations as we see happening to our QB.
    That would in effect make our CB/S look better and allow our LB to roam/make plays in both the running game and passing games.
    So now you are happy with the OL and see no reason to change it? Times are a changing ;D
    I am not so sure about Cook yet but as with all the young guys this year, he was thrown to the wolves and I believe did a very good (not great) job for the following reasons:

    a.
    Most of the OL play issues are directly related to the fact that we run both a ZB and man-to-man blocking schemes.
    Sure most teams do that at times but the ones who do it contend that it takes a heck of alot longer to install than we have been at it.
    Throw in the fact that Birk seemed to struggle with his line calls/adjustments to what the D showed early on in the year kindof contributed to all of the OLmen doing bad at times.
    b.
    The gaurd who played next to him when he really seemed to struggle is gone.
    I think he is very comfortable next to my boy "The New 64" Herrera.
    c.
    He has faced some pretty damn good DE this year and based on his experience level, held his own to a certain extent.

    I really look for this group to really really come together over the off season and will be extremely good in both the pass and the run aspects of the offense.

    That and that alone will allow our TE's and RB's to get into the passing aspect a bit more as well.
    Lets not forget the premise of the WCO is just that, however, if the OL can't do thier job we then need to take one of our play makers out of the play (TE and RB) to help out in pass protection.

    As with all things, it starts at the line and if they do good or bad the trickle down effect comes into play.
    [/quote]

    Good to see those points.

    On the other hand I have been watching the line closer in the last few games and have been unimpressed with the blocking more times than I like.

    On passing plays against the Bears and the Redskins for example, Look at McKinney and notice how much trouble he is having maintaining contact with his assignment. Even on running plays there are too many plays where you see the interior of the line engaged with a defender and BM is standing watching what is going on instead of hitting somebody. IMO he is not living up to his contract or reputation.

    Birk,who went to Harvard, looks lost at times for some reason, missing calls like the Urlacher sacks where he went through unblocked(Unless the RB had that assignment but why let him come through clean and put 2 guys on a 3rd rate defensive lineman who should be able to be blocked by Hutch)

    I also see Cook not handling the pressure of the DE very well, which means either they are putting fast pressure on TJ or we are keeping Shank in to block instead of running routes like he should be.

    I think Hererra has been doing an OK job and Hutch looks solid but that isn't what I expect from the group.

    I think it is fair to say the group will come together in the offseason, but I was on them all last year and was told they would come together this year. In fairness they have played well in some games but they are not doing that well for a line that has has 2 full seasons, 2 training camps, OTA's etc.

    Heck, the Colts put a rookie in at LT and are running pretty strong and the Packers have a very inexperienced line compared to what we have and they are run and pass blocking very well.

    But that is off the subject.

    On the subject is that we have been in the "We will be better next year" mode for far too long. I am not going to be that patient to give a 4 year vet 2-3 more years to get good. He has seen enough and gone through the camps,practices etc enough to play the way he needs to now, not next year.

  9. #29
    vikesfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    My biggest worry is Bryant McKinnie's pass protection. The other issues relate to the scheme, the guys getting used to playing together, and young Ryan Cook's development.

    McKinnie is great in run blocking. In pass blocking, he has often played at the NFL average or below for a left offensive tackle, I hope he improves his technique. It doesn't matter who plays quarterback if there is a right defensive end consistently collapsing the pocket.


    Go Vikings!

  10. #30
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    Re: Childress expects Shiancoe to be better next season

    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    My biggest worry is Bryant McKinnie's pass protection. The other issues relate to the scheme, the guys getting used to playing together, and young Ryan Cook's development.

    McKinnie is great in run blocking. In pass blocking, he has often played at the NFL average or below for a left offensive tackle, I hope he improves his technique. It doesn't matter who plays quarterback if there is a right defensive end consistently collapsing the pocket.
    I agree, the big guy has had an off year but I believe that there is something going on in the back rooms of winter park that is the real reason.


    I look for him to have a better year next year.
    Can't give you a good rationale for that assesment, however, lets call it a gut feeling.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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