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Thread: Changed Mind

  1. #1
    VikemanX84 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Changed Mind

    This game was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. After monday night I've changed my opinion on two issues concerning the vikes.

    One: Mike Tice shouldn't be our head coach next season. The stupidity in clock management lost us this game, plain and simple. We didn't have moss, we were rarely in a rythm, but if we had managed the clock at all we'd be 6-2 right now. I can't believ with a good 10 seconds left Tice decided to wait until 2 were remaining and call teh time out. Settling for a field goal. That was the stupidiest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. There is no good reason for doing it. I also couldn't believe that on 3rd and 33 he took a time out to keep from losing 5 more yards. What does 5 more yards matter? And then after wasting the time out, he doesn't try and get the first down. 5 yards wasn't worth that time out. I don't understand why coaches and players don't take the 5 yard penalty more often instead of wasting a time out, and there was no reasonable reason to waste that time out. I agreed with Madden that we should have just let the Colts score to give our offense time to come back. I mean, c'mon, they are the #1 Red Zone teama dn by that time they were inside the 30, well within Field Goal range. Just them score! We weren't going to stop them, we didn't stop them. Again poor clock management in the 2nd half (WTF was up with only having 10 guys on the field!!!!!) cost us big time. The guy is an idiot, he has been critized for these things since his first seasona nd he hasn't gotten better. ur team came out and played without the key that makes them good and kept us competitive and the coaching blew it.

    Also, Ted Cottrell and Scott Linehan need to go after this season. We've still got Robinson and Campbell, we need to take shots and stretch the freaking field. If they are putting 8 guys in teh box, we can do that. Daunte Culpepper should be throwing mor ethan 20 passes with or without Moss. As for Cotrell, he turned a medicore defense, with a whole shitload of potential to be top-10 into one of the worst defenses I have seen in the vikings in a couple years. There is no reason, absolutely none for Kevin Williams to be playing End. His rotation on the Dline isn't working all that great, I like Steve Martin, he's good for run stuffing and to spell Hovan/Williams every once in a while but putting him in regularly is a bad idea, as is putting Williams on the End, he is a frikin' monster inside, why mess with that? Especially when we've got 2 talented guys in Mixon and Udeze to play ends, and 2 talented guys in Johnstone and Scott to back them up. Cottrell doesn't blitz enough. Chavous and Russel are really good safeties, and Williams and Winfield can hold their own against pretty much any set of 2 WRs in the game. Take a chance and blitz a friggin' safety, and if you're not going to blitz the linebackers please at least have one of them cover the underneath guy.

    I said at the beginning of the year it would come down to coaching, and it has. Cottrel should be demoted, Tice fired, and Linehan can be traded or fired, or whatever, but I want a new coaching staff for '05.


    Second: Smith should be a featured Back. He clearly out performed Bennett. However, trading Bennett I don't think is an option. What i think we shoudl do, especially with Jimmy K out, is go back to a 1 TE set and have both Bennett and Smith in the backfield. I guess I'm dreaming cuz Tice would never think of something that clever but thats what we should do, it works well.

    Just some final thoughts. I think we need to convert our offense into a screen offense with moss gone. With Smith and bennett we can run the screen excellently, with Campbell we can run the WR screen, I think we need to set those things and do them more.

    Also, with Moss gone, we need to reach into the play book and try a couple trick plays, that will help keep the defense on their toes and I'd bet they;d be pretty successful.
    When it s all said and done, you ll have to admit we re number 1!

  2. #2
    Viking_Spirit is offline Star Spokesman
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    Changed Mind

    Two words-Can Linehan

    Guns don t kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.

  3. #3
    PurpleReign's Avatar
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    Changed Mind

    I agree with ONE thing you said.......Onterrio should be our starting RB. He's shifty and powerful all in one package. Bennett is a track runner in shoulder pads.

  4. #4
    snowinapril's Avatar
    snowinapril is offline Jersey Retired
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    Changed Mind

    Yeah, please correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember a long pass to stretch the field at all.

    The longest pass I remember is the one to Campbell when he caught the ball and went down. That wasn't even a play to stretch the field. It was just a crossing route.

  5. #5
    Vikes's Avatar
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    Re: Changed Mind

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    This game was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. After monday night I've changed my opinion on two issues concerning the vikes.

    One: Mike Tice shouldn't be our head coach next season. The stupidity in clock management lost us this game, plain and simple. We didn't have moss, we were rarely in a rythm, but if we had managed the clock at all we'd be 6-2 right now. I can't believ with a good 10 seconds left Tice decided to wait until 2 were remaining and call teh time out. Settling for a field goal. That was the stupidiest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. There is no good reason for doing it. I also couldn't believe that on 3rd and 33 he took a time out to keep from losing 5 more yards. What does 5 more yards matter? And then after wasting the time out, he doesn't try and get the first down. 5 yards wasn't worth that time out. I don't understand why coaches and players don't take the 5 yard penalty more often instead of wasting a time out, and there was no reasonable reason to waste that time out. I agreed with Madden that we should have just let the Colts score to give our offense time to come back. I mean, c'mon, they are the #1 Red Zone teama dn by that time they were inside the 30, well within Field Goal range. Just them score! We weren't going to stop them, we didn't stop them. Again poor clock management in the 2nd half (WTF was up with only having 10 guys on the field!!!!!) cost us big time. The guy is an idiot, he has been critized for these things since his first seasona nd he hasn't gotten better. ur team came out and played without the key that makes them good and kept us competitive and the coaching blew it.

    Also, Ted Cottrell and Scott Linehan need to go after this season. We've still got Robinson and Campbell, we need to take shots and stretch the freaking field. If they are putting 8 guys in teh box, we can do that. Daunte Culpepper should be throwing mor ethan 20 passes with or without Moss. As for Cotrell, he turned a medicore defense, with a whole shitload of potential to be top-10 into one of the worst defenses I have seen in the vikings in a couple years. There is no reason, absolutely none for Kevin Williams to be playing End. His rotation on the Dline isn't working all that great, I like Steve Martin, he's good for run stuffing and to spell Hovan/Williams every once in a while but putting him in regularly is a bad idea, as is putting Williams on the End, he is a frikin' monster inside, why mess with that? Especially when we've got 2 talented guys in Mixon and Udeze to play ends, and 2 talented guys in Johnstone and Scott to back them up. Cottrell doesn't blitz enough. Chavous and Russel are really good safeties, and Williams and Winfield can hold their own against pretty much any set of 2 WRs in the game. Take a chance and blitz a friggin' safety, and if you're not going to blitz the linebackers please at least have one of them cover the underneath guy.

    I said at the beginning of the year it would come down to coaching, and it has. Cottrel should be demoted, Tice fired, and Linehan can be traded or fired, or whatever, but I want a new coaching staff for '05.


    Second: Smith should be a featured Back. He clearly out performed Bennett. However, trading Bennett I don't think is an option. What i think we shoudl do, especially with Jimmy K out, is go back to a 1 TE set and have both Bennett and Smith in the backfield. I guess I'm dreaming cuz Tice would never think of something that clever but thats what we should do, it works well.

    Just some final thoughts. I think we need to convert our offense into a screen offense with moss gone. With Smith and bennett we can run the screen excellently, with Campbell we can run the WR screen, I think we need to set those things and do them more.

    Also, with Moss gone, we need to reach into the play book and try a couple trick plays, that will help keep the defense on their toes and I'd bet they;d be pretty successful.
    Finally someone else is starting to see the light Tice is not the man. I'm sorry if you missed my first post it was TICE MUST GO!!!! He should have been gone last season after the collapse.

    The Vikings became the first team since the 1978 Washington Redskins to start the season 6-0 and not make the postseason.
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    The rigors of Spartan life. Leonidas is cast out into the wild, and survives the harsh winter to return to his home, when he is crowned King ....a Viking!

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  6. #6
    sdvikefan is offline Hall of Famer
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    Changed Mind

    I won't defend Tice or Linehan, but I do have to stick up for Ted Cottrell. He is not our problem on defense.

    First off keep in mind that our defense which has a lot of inexperience was playing a sharp Colts offense that has their timing down to near perfection. It came as no surprise to me that we got burned by them. Our secondary had their work cut out for them because the Colts send their WRs on routes and patterns that are tough to defend. There was no way we could afford to blitz Manning that often, our CBs just did not match up well enough to afford us to move a safety up to blitz.

    I do not think Brian Williams is that great a corner anyway. He can hit pretty hard but his coverage is lacking. He gives way to much of a cushion and still gets burned despite having safety help often. Also, I do not see him ever try to jam the WR off the line like Winfield does.

    Russell is improving but he is still out of position a lot, not hard to understand against an offense like the Colts, but still he has a ways to go before he can be trusted to cover the deep middle by himself and bring Chavous up to blitz or stop the run.

    The LBs just did a crappy job of tackling last night. Winfield and Chavous are the best tacklers on the team, I think they should take the LBs and give them a few lessons in tackling skills.

    Also, Chris Claiborne. I'm really losing patience with the guy. He looks great when he's healthy but that hardly ever happens. He's becoming a liability because he is injured so much.

    Kevin Williams is much better on the inside, I agree he should not be played at end. But our defensive line is the strength of our defense right now, no doubt. They are getting better each week at pressuring the QB, like snow said they did better than most teams at pressuring Manning. It was up to the secondary and LBs to cover all the zones and not give Manning what he needs to get rid of the ball.

    So I don't think we can afford to blitz more, and I think Cottrell is doing a pretty good job with what he has to work with.

    Red is to blame...think of all the talented secondary we could have had. We could have gotten Dre Bly for crying out loud. Can you imagine having him and Winfield together? We could blitz on every play.
    "Meet at the quarterback!" -Purple People Eaters

  7. #7
    LosAngelis's Avatar
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    Changed Mind

    Sherman might be available for you next year.
    Have you ever seen a race of turtles, and they all go the wrong way instead of towards the finish line?

    Welcome to the NFC North.

  8. #8
    VikemanX84 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Changed Mind

    Sorry Sd. I'm not just basing my opinion on this game, It's just this was the final straw.

    You say the defense is inexperienced but in many ways we are much more experienced than we were last year. Williams is Older, we've got Newman at LB, Henderson is older, Steve Martin is a veteran to back up in the middle that Fred Robbins wasn't. I mean we've got a couple new faces - Thomas, and Udeze, but those are the only really inexperienced guys. We even added more experience by signing Winfield. In 11 out of 16 games last year our defense was top-10, exspecially towards the end of the season when we completely shut down offenses like the Chiefs and the Seahawks. And we are better this year personnell wise. Sorry thats not our problem, it's Cottrell.

    As far as Williams and Russel go: When are these guys going to get some frigin' credit. More than once against the very potent Colts offense Russel came up with excellent hits on James and I believe didn't he knock the ball away the only time teh Vikings forced a 3 and out? And Williams, the announcers talked all game about how well Wayne was doing and what a potent threat he was for him. Wayne was silenced! Brian Williams shut down T.O. last year and has held his own against many other top Wide Recievers and Quarterbacks.

    Red isn't to blame. I mean, I guess he is, kind of, for hiring that bone-head Cottrell and picking up the option on Linehan, but, talent wise, lur defense is really stacked. We've got an awesome Dline, we've got good linebackers (turns into really good with Claiborne at 100%) and our secondary is really, really stron with one of the best Safety tandems in the league and 2 really, really good corners. The probelms is they are not being used properly.
    When it s all said and done, you ll have to admit we re number 1!

  9. #9
    dan3ski's Avatar
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    Changed Mind

    Well all I can say is that if you hit the recievers at the line you will disrupt most timming patterms and linebacers playing 5 yds deep is a joke do what thier name implies and stack the line. I am not happy with any of the coaching on the Vikings and have called for Tice's head several times. Serve it up!
    can we clone Bud Grant?

  10. #10
    Vikes's Avatar
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    Changed Mind

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    Sorry Sd. I'm not just basing my opinion on this game, It's just this was the final straw.

    You say the defense is inexperienced but in many ways we are much more experienced than we were last year. Williams is Older, we've got Newman at LB, Henderson is older, Steve Martin is a veteran to back up in the middle that Fred Robbins wasn't. I mean we've got a couple new faces - Thomas, and Udeze, but those are the only really inexperienced guys. We even added more experience by signing Winfield. In 11 out of 16 games last year our defense was top-10, exspecially towards the end of the season when we completely shut down offenses like the Chiefs and the Seahawks. And we are better this year personnell wise. Sorry thats not our problem, it's Cottrell.

    As far as Williams and Russel go: When are these guys going to get some frigin' credit. More than once against the very potent Colts offense Russel came up with excellent hits on James and I believe didn't he knock the ball away the only time teh Vikings forced a 3 and out? And Williams, the announcers talked all game about how well Wayne was doing and what a potent threat he was for him. Wayne was silenced! Brian Williams shut down T.O. last year and has held his own against many other top Wide Recievers and Quarterbacks.

    Red isn't to blame. I mean, I guess he is, kind of, for hiring that bone-head Cottrell and picking up the option on Linehan, but, talent wise, lur defense is really stacked. We've got an awesome Dline, we've got good linebackers (turns into really good with Claiborne at 100%) and our secondary is really, really stron with one of the best Safety tandems in the league and 2 really, really good corners. The probelms is they are not being used properly.
    It this simple Red wants someone to buy the team! He is trying to keep cost low and profits high. The Vikings continue to perform at a decent level to keep selling out the stadium. Until we get Red out of there we are going to be stuck with this Mickey Mouse operation. I think Tice is the 2nd to lowest paid coach in the league. Did you guys catch the stat about Tice if he is not leading by the half the huge number of losses he has. Once again I'm not mad at Tice. If someone offered me the head coach of the Vikings I would take it. I would suk but hell it would be cool!! :thumbright: :thumbleft:

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    The rigors of Spartan life. Leonidas is cast out into the wild, and survives the harsh winter to return to his home, when he is crowned King ....a Viking!

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