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  1. #11
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    "V" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [size=13pt]Vikings center John Sullivan shines in his first start[/size]

    By Rick Alonzo
    [email protected]
    Updated: 09/15/2009 11:58:43 PM CDT



    Now that they've beaten Cleveland, the Vikings play four more games this season against teams that line up in a similar 3-4 base defense, including two matchups with Green Bay and games against Baltimore and Pittsburgh....

    I believe the 49ers also run the 3-4 defense.
    That is incorrect. They run a 4-3.

    Also, very good article. I'm certainly impressed with both Sullivan and Loadholt's performance in that first game. The OL did not miss a beat. Sure, the Browns did generate QB pressure, but that was about all that their defense did correctly. They blitzed and in the end their gameplan didn't work. Sullivan went up against a Pro Bowl caliber DT and basically won the battle.

    Interesting note on the Browns offensive gameplan. They thought that they could run the ball against us? There are so many things wrong with that theory that I don't know where to begin:
    1. Going against best run D in the NFL
    2. Have an RB stable of Jamal Lewis and ?????
    3. Have an underrated OL, but not that underrated.
    4. Main offensive weapon is at WR, with a speedster accross from him.
    5. Young QB, get the ball out of his hands quick. Get him in a rhythm early. Long 3rd downs certainly didn't help Quinn's cause.
    They moved the ball pretty well against us until Lewis got hurt. I beleive he finsihed with approx 54 yards.

  2. #12
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WTF is this bullshit. This guy got beat up and down the field, was constantly in the QBs throwing lane and looked like shit. WTF is this he played well crap. In the gameday chat, I had a running ticker of consecutive plays of him getting blown up. I believe I stopped at 5. Rodgers is talented but not consistant and he dominanted our boy in the middle. The quote that let's me know this is bull shit is from Childress saying that he after he gave up the sack he was clear eyed...WTF? Why is a Center giving up a sack to a fucking 3-4 defense?
    A rookie Center in his first game goes against an elite DT and you still want to stomp all over him? Please. He did his job and contained the man even though he was overmatched. Rogers was silent for a large portion of the game. He may have room to improve, but nonetheless this is a great starting point.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
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    Thanks Josdin!

  3. #13
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WTF is this kaka del rio. This guy got beat up and down the field, was constantly in the QBs throwing lane and looked like pooh. WTF is this he played well crap. In the gameday chat, I had a running ticker of consecutive plays of him getting blown up. I believe I stopped at 5. Rodgers is talented but not consistant and he dominanted our boy in the middle. The quote that let's me know this is bull pooh is from Childress saying that he after he gave up the sack he was clear eyed...WTF? Why is a Center giving up a sack to a fricken 3-4 defense?
    A rookie Center in his first game goes against an elite DT and you still want to stomp all over him? Please. He did his job and contained the man even though he was overmatched. Rogers was silent for a large portion of the game. He may have room to improve, but nonetheless this is a great starting point.
    1) He is not a rookie.
    2) He got dominanted.
    3) Rodgers is not an ELITE DT. At this point he is a good DT but is very up and down like he always is.
    4) http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...64-yard-TD-run
    Who blew his block on this play! I'm not trying to stomp on the guy but lets not say that he played well like this article is trying to sell. He didn't play well now did he "SHINE". Are you guys serious?

  4. #14
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WTF is this kaka del rio. This guy got beat up and down the field, was constantly in the QBs throwing lane and looked like pooh. WTF is this he played well crap. In the gameday chat, I had a running ticker of consecutive plays of him getting blown up. I believe I stopped at 5. Rodgers is talented but not consistant and he dominanted our boy in the middle. The quote that let's me know this is bull pooh is from Childress saying that he after he gave up the sack he was clear eyed...WTF? Why is a Center giving up a sack to a fricken 3-4 defense?
    A rookie Center in his first game goes against an elite DT and you still want to stomp all over him? Please. He did his job and contained the man even though he was overmatched. Rogers was silent for a large portion of the game. He may have room to improve, but nonetheless this is a great starting point.
    1) He is not a rookie.
    2) He got dominanted.
    3) Rodgers is not an ELITE DT. At this point he is a good DT but is very up and down like he always is.
    4) http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...64-yard-TD-run
    Who blew his block on this play! I'm not trying to stomp on the guy but lets not say that he played well like this article is trying to sell. He didn't play well now did he "SHINE". Are you guys serious?
    I think your assessment of play is off.
    Watch how Mayock disects the play. Sully was to chip Rodgers so Herrera could pick him up, then seal off the backside linebacker.
    When Rodgers jumps the gap to Sully's right, he move to the LB.
    Rodgers was Herrera's man at that point.
    I think you are being harsh on the first time starter.

  5. #15
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WTF is this kaka del rio. This guy got beat up and down the field, was constantly in the QBs throwing lane and looked like pooh. WTF is this he played well crap. In the gameday chat, I had a running ticker of consecutive plays of him getting blown up. I believe I stopped at 5. Rodgers is talented but not consistant and he dominanted our boy in the middle. The quote that let's me know this is bull pooh is from Childress saying that he after he gave up the sack he was clear eyed...WTF? Why is a Center giving up a sack to a fricken 3-4 defense?
    A rookie Center in his first game goes against an elite DT and you still want to stomp all over him? Please. He did his job and contained the man even though he was overmatched. Rogers was silent for a large portion of the game. He may have room to improve, but nonetheless this is a great starting point.
    1) He is not a rookie.
    2) He got dominanted.
    3) Rodgers is not an ELITE DT. At this point he is a good DT but is very up and down like he always is.
    4) http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...64-yard-TD-run
    Who blew his block on this play! I'm not trying to stomp on the guy but lets not say that he played well like this article is trying to sell. He didn't play well now did he "SHINE". Are you guys serious?
    That is your definition of a blown block? Haha. Rogers didn't even lay a finger on AD. Was it a pancake? No, but his chip got the job done. Come to me with a clip where his guy tackles AD in the backfield, then we'll talk.

    AD doesn't get touched until he's 8 yards downfield, and you want criticize OL performance on that play? Please. The man let up one sack, and had one penalty. We have seen much much worse.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  6. #16
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WTF is this kaka del rio. This guy got beat up and down the field, was constantly in the QBs throwing lane and looked like pooh. WTF is this he played well crap. In the gameday chat, I had a running ticker of consecutive plays of him getting blown up. I believe I stopped at 5. Rodgers is talented but not consistant and he dominanted our boy in the middle. The quote that let's me know this is bull pooh is from Childress saying that he after he gave up the sack he was clear eyed...WTF? Why is a Center giving up a sack to a fricken 3-4 defense?
    A rookie Center in his first game goes against an elite DT and you still want to stomp all over him? Please. He did his job and contained the man even though he was overmatched. Rogers was silent for a large portion of the game. He may have room to improve, but nonetheless this is a great starting point.
    1) He is not a rookie.
    2) He got dominanted.
    3) Rodgers is not an ELITE DT. At this point he is a good DT but is very up and down like he always is.
    4) http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...64-yard-TD-run
    Who blew his block on this play! I'm not trying to stomp on the guy but lets not say that he played well like this article is trying to sell. He didn't play well now did he "SHINE". Are you guys serious?
    That is your definition of a blown block? Haha. Rogers didn't even lay a finger on AD. Was it a pancake? No, but his chip got the job done. Come to me with a clip where his guy tackles AD in the backfield, then we'll talk.

    AD doesn't get touched until he's 8 yards downfield, and you want criticize OL performance on that play? Please. The man let up one sack, and had one penalty. We have seen much much worse.
    I think it's perfectly fine to criticize players for missed assignments, even if the play works out.

    I also think Sullivan did an okay job here, while Herrera and Loadholt looked poor compared to what I would expect.

    Herrera and Loadholt need to get a move on when the play starts and take their tracks on zone plays.
    They take an initial step left, but both of them then look to catch someone.
    It looked like Herrera might have thought the LB over the top of him was going to blitz, and Loadholt expected to take on the DE.
    They both stood in place instead of taking their tracks and going after the first person they ran into.

    If you want to see what I'm talking about, look at Kleinsasser on that play.
    He's lined up just outside of Loadholt.
    He takes his first step left, keeps his shoulders parallel to the line, and keeps his feet moving left as he engages the DE.
    His block looks easier before the play than Herrera's because the DE is in the gap instead of head up on the guy next to him, but the DE attacked straight into the gap while Rodgers went towards Herrera's gap.
    Sullivan also got a pretty good chip on Rodgers to help Herrera out.

    Loadholt just ends up wandering around lost.
    He probably should have either gotten the first shot on the LB that Sullivan picks up, or been downfield looking for a DB (he might have had an outside shot at the guy AD had to toss to the ground).

    Now, the backside isn't usually as important, and wasn't on this play.
    But AD likes to cut it back from time to time.
    Also, you just want them to do a good job every play.
    So I figure it's fair to question.
    But Sully looked okay on that play in my book.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  7. #17
    V4L's Avatar
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    LOL

    Bullshit!

  8. #18
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    As with Cook, lets not hang these two out to dry right away.
    At least to the point that our opinions of them are so skewed we are calling for thier heads instead of the lame ass coaches who ran them out there.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #19
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    "Overlord" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WTF is this kaka del rio. This guy got beat up and down the field, was constantly in the QBs throwing lane and looked like pooh. WTF is this he played well crap. In the gameday chat, I had a running ticker of consecutive plays of him getting blown up. I believe I stopped at 5. Rodgers is talented but not consistant and he dominanted our boy in the middle. The quote that let's me know this is bull pooh is from Childress saying that he after he gave up the sack he was clear eyed...WTF? Why is a Center giving up a sack to a fricken 3-4 defense?
    A rookie Center in his first game goes against an elite DT and you still want to stomp all over him? Please. He did his job and contained the man even though he was overmatched. Rogers was silent for a large portion of the game. He may have room to improve, but nonetheless this is a great starting point.
    1) He is not a rookie.
    2) He got dominanted.
    3) Rodgers is not an ELITE DT. At this point he is a good DT but is very up and down like he always is.
    4) http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...64-yard-TD-run
    Who blew his block on this play! I'm not trying to stomp on the guy but lets not say that he played well like this article is trying to sell. He didn't play well now did he "SHINE". Are you guys serious?
    That is your definition of a blown block? Haha. Rogers didn't even lay a finger on AD. Was it a pancake? No, but his chip got the job done. Come to me with a clip where his guy tackles AD in the backfield, then we'll talk.

    AD doesn't get touched until he's 8 yards downfield, and you want criticize OL performance on that play? Please. The man let up one sack, and had one penalty. We have seen much much worse.
    I think it's perfectly fine to criticize players for missed assignments, even if the play works out.

    I also think Sullivan did an okay job here, while Herrera and Loadholt looked poor compared to what I would expect.

    Herrera and Loadholt need to get a move on when the play starts and take their tracks on zone plays.
    They take an initial step left, but both of them then look to catch someone.
    It looked like Herrera might have thought the LB over the top of him was going to blitz, and Loadholt expected to take on the DE.
    They both stood in place instead of taking their tracks and going after the first person they ran into.

    If you want to see what I'm talking about, look at Kleinsasser on that play.
    He's lined up just outside of Loadholt.
    He takes his first step left, keeps his shoulders parallel to the line, and keeps his feet moving left as he engages the DE.
    His block looks easier before the play than Herrera's because the DE is in the gap instead of head up on the guy next to him, but the DE attacked straight into the gap while Rodgers went towards Herrera's gap.
    Sullivan also got a pretty good chip on Rodgers to help Herrera out.

    Loadholt just ends up wandering around lost.
    He probably should have either gotten the first shot on the LB that Sullivan picks up, or been downfield looking for a DB (he might have had an outside shot at the guy AD had to toss to the ground).

    Now, the backside isn't usually as important, and wasn't on this play.
    But AD likes to cut it back from time to time.
    Also, you just want them to do a good job every play.
    So I figure it's fair to question.
    But Sully looked okay on that play in my book.
    With all due respect, I think you are being way too over critical.

    1. They are on the backside of this play. Their main job is to stop pursuit into the backfield. This explains their initial step to the left, ensuring that any gap shooter will be denied from getting AD in the backfield. This also explains their "look to catch someone". Not all run blocking involves FB style lead blocks. Mayock even says this when analyzing Rice's block at the end.

    2. Sauce does the same thing that Herrera and Loadholt do. The only difference is that he has to reach for the DE, who is lined up on the play-side gap. He realizes that in order to stop backside pursuit he'll have to get off the ball quickly, and so he does. You yourself noticed this.

    3. Loadholt has nobody to block. Their number two priority is to not commit a penalty. Why would he block Sullivan's man towards the play? Why would he risk a block in the back on that LB on a DB downfield?

    4. Minimal backside pursuit. No dumb unnecessary penalty. With both jobs done, I'm happy. I'm sure you can understand that OL roles vary from play to play. As long as each OL takes care of business we'll be fine, even if Loadholt does nothing while Hutch has to seal the hole.

    5. There was no missed block on this play. You talk about how AD likes to cut it back, but a lot of cutbacks are actually by design. The OL creates options and cutback lanes for the RB on purpose. Pause that video at exactly 2:00 and tell me that a cutback lane does not exist.

    In the end, it is not whether they did a good job, it is how we define a good job where we differ. And also, you might want to find a play where things actually went wrong if you want to criticize.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  10. #20
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    Re: Center John Sullivan shines in his first start

    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    WTF is this kaka del rio. This guy got beat up and down the field, was constantly in the QBs throwing lane and looked like pooh. WTF is this he played well crap. In the gameday chat, I had a running ticker of consecutive plays of him getting blown up. I believe I stopped at 5. Rodgers is talented but not consistant and he dominanted our boy in the middle. The quote that let's me know this is bull pooh is from Childress saying that he after he gave up the sack he was clear eyed...WTF? Why is a Center giving up a sack to a fricken 3-4 defense?
    A rookie Center in his first game goes against an elite DT and you still want to stomp all over him? Please. He did his job and contained the man even though he was overmatched. Rogers was silent for a large portion of the game. He may have room to improve, but nonetheless this is a great starting point.
    1) He is not a rookie.
    2) He got dominanted.
    3) Rodgers is not an ELITE DT. At this point he is a good DT but is very up and down like he always is.
    4) http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...64-yard-TD-run
    Who blew his block on this play! I'm not trying to stomp on the guy but lets not say that he played well like this article is trying to sell. He didn't play well now did he "SHINE". Are you guys serious?
    I think your assessment of play is off.
    Watch how Mayock disects the play. Sully was to chip Rodgers so Herrera could pick him up, then seal off the backside linebacker.
    When Rodgers jumps the gap to Sully's right, he move to the LB.
    Rodgers was Herrera's man at that point.
    I think you are being harsh on the first time starter.
    He did not chip and he left Herrea in a terrible spot. Had AD not hit the hole like only he can, this is a tackle for a lost. Watch it again. Herrea barely gets a hand on Rodgers and it's only AD's speed that egts him to the hole and helps him avoid an ankle tackle.

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