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  1. #31
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    When Alex Smith was BENCHED for Kaepernick last year, he was the most efficient QB in the NFL and coming off an 18 for 19, 234 yards, 3 TDs and no picks performance in his last full game.

    In the game he got hurt in, he was 7 for 8 for 72 yards and 1 TD when he went down.
    And the week before that he got throttled by the Giants and had 3 INT's and 0 TD's. CK finished the year with a 62.5 comp Percentage, added over 400 yards rushing and 5 rushing TD's.

    So basically la di frickin Da.



    I don't see that Alex Smith is doing better this year. He's doing the same. And winning - just like last year in SF (record at time of injury was 6-2).
    Well, he is 4-0 this year and was 3-1 last year at this point so yeah, that's better and if you watch him play, he is flat out playing better and making better decisions even though he doesn't have Moss, Crabtree, Manningham and Davis.

    Cassel, OTOH, was a complete train-wreck in KC - except for ONE season (2010 - his 2nd in KC). He regressed in 2011 and 2012.
    He threw for 64 TD's in his first 3 seasons against about 28 INT's and he averaged over 3000 yards passing.

    During that same time period Smith averaged a tad over 2500 yards a season and threw 49 TD's

    Yeah, Cassel's last 2 were not good but he was also hurt and playing on a terrible team and there is nothing that indicates he can't do as well here as he did in his best years of the past.

    And like I clearly said, I am not on his bandwagon but he is a welcome step in the right direction.




    I'm not saying he can't be successful the rest of the season. But he ain't Joe Freaking Montana. He's barely Gus Frerotte.

    =Z=
    Who the hell said he was Joe Freakin Montana? Talk about pulling stuff out your cornhole.

  2. #32
    smegmavike is offline Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post

    I'm NOT saying Ponder is better. I'm NOT saying Ponder should start.

    What I am saying is that to portray Cassel as anything other than mediocre ignores the actual numbers in favor of hope and loose observations about intangibles which we have no idea exist or not.

    =Z=
    What you are saying seems to fall under the realm of common knowledge !
    The debate is about which turd would play better.
    Citing the first half play of Cassel and ignoring the second half doesn't seem to be a real supportive point.
    Odds are poor that Cassel is anything more than a back up, and I expect to see a QB selected with the Vikings first pick next year.
    But Cassel fits the Musgrave system better than Ponder, and as you point out, it doesn't matter who the QB is, on a team with a dreadful defense.
    Nobody here thinks Cassel is Joe Montana or Gus Frerotte for that matter.

  3. #33
    rednorsk is offline Rookie
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    Frazier is starting to sound like another person in the news lately. I won't negotiate!!!
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    What you are saying seems to fall under the realm of common knowledge !
    The debate is about which turd would play better.
    Citing the first half play of Cassel and ignoring the second half doesn't seem to be a real supportive point.
    Odds are poor that Cassel is anything more than a back up, and I expect to see a QB selected with the Vikings first pick next year.
    But Cassel fits the Musgrave system better than Ponder, and as you point out, it doesn't matter who the QB is, on a team with a dreadful defense.
    Nobody here thinks Cassel is Joe Montana or Gus Frerotte for that matter.
    I don't think either guy is a turd, really. Cassel is one of the best backup QBs you could ask for. He has legit talent.

    Ponder could be fantastic, and I think he actually has all the tools that he needs. Hell, Brees has similar arm strength, and Ponder is definitely more athletic...it's just that Ponder is light years away from Brees above the shoulders, where it all matters. I think Ponder might just be another decent backup in this league.

    It's a shame, because there's a lot to like about the guy.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    In 2010, Jamaal Charles was 2nd in the NFL in rushing yards and was a first team All-Pro (note I am NOT bringing up the freaking Pro Bowl idiocy). How can you say that Cassel didn't have there what he has now? And the result? First-round playoff loss where Cassel was 9 for 18 for 70 yards and THREE PICKS! Down-right Webb-like performance there.

    Cassel is mediocre. His first-half on Sunday was a horrible as ANYTHING Ponder has ever done. He was rescued from his terrible play by bad tackling on Jennings' TD, by the brilliance of AD on the long TD and the inability of Ike Taylor to catch a ball.

    I'm NOT saying Ponder is better. I'm NOT saying Ponder should start.

    What I am saying is that to portray Cassel as anything other than mediocre ignores the actual numbers in favor of hope and loose observations about intangibles which we have no idea exist or not.

    =Z=
    Charles being 2nd in rushing doesn't relate to the point I made. What was the percentage of 8 man fronts that Charles saw that year? No one knows. What I do know is that This year ADs seeing the most 8 man fronts of his career ( 8 man front's equal blitz/ cover 3 / a combo of both). That was my point. It still stands by the way. We have 1 QB that has played with AP this season and has 2tds and 5ints in 3 games. We have another that has 2tds - 0 ints in 1 game. Which QB would you choose.

    Also, I see you mentioned the Jennings score. I believe the QB that you love so much has not been able to do that on a reasonable basis. He throws WRs that are open, covered. He is almost always behind and late with his throws.

    How can you argue with what Cassell did this Sunday... is this bizzarro world. Fuck the stats...which clearly show superiority...fuck them... lets ignroe that....The eyeball test should be enough....but fuck that too...fuck what you saw....Have you even seen a team abandon it's starting QB so quickly? AD, Jennings and co... have you every seen that happen? That alone should tell you Cassell is the better QB.
    Last edited by kevoncox; 10-03-2013 at 03:18 AM.

  6. #36
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    They should just put Ponder on the MUP list.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #37
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    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #38
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    Vikings' QB debate: Christian Ponder vs. Matt Cassel

    Vikings' QB debate: Christian Ponder vs. Matt Cassel - TwinCities.com

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Charles being 2nd in rushing doesn't relate to the point I made. What was the percentage of 8 man fronts that Charles saw that year? No one knows. What I do know is that This year ADs seeing the most 8 man fronts of his career ( 8 man front's equal blitz/ cover 3 / a combo of both). That was my point. It still stands by the way. We have 1 QB that has played with AP this season and has 2tds and 5ints in 3 games. We have another that has 2tds - 0 ints in 1 game. Which QB would you choose.

    Also, I see you mentioned the Jennings score. I believe the QB that you love so much has not been able to do that on a reasonable basis. He throws WRs that are open, covered. He is almost always behind and late with his throws.

    How can you argue with what Cassell did this Sunday... is this bizzarro world. Fuck the stats...which clearly show superiority...fuck them... lets ignroe that....The eyeball test should be enough....but fuck that too...fuck what you saw....Have you even seen a team abandon it's starting QB so quickly? AD, Jennings and co... have you every seen that happen? That alone should tell you Cassell is the better QB.
    NFL Myth-busting: Elite Running Backs Battle Eight-in-the-Box Defenses

    According to these guys, Peterson doesn't see near as many "loaded boxes" as most people think. They put it at 30% last year, far behind Gore's 42% last year, despite having better QB play in SF. League average is around 23%.

    On your question about how many 8 man fronts did Charles see last year...people do know. I could tell you, but you might not like the answer...then again you might.

  10. #40
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    Further proof that Frazier has "NO CLUE"

    Leslie Frazier: Vikings fans won’t be upset if Christian Ponder starts against Panthers

    Read more: Leslie Frazier: Vikings fans won't be upset if Christian Ponder starts against Panthers - Sports Glory

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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